Greyscale theory

[kfnnnp]

It's been established that a lot of the inspiration for ASOIAF comes from European history. My theory is that greyscale is inspired by the disease Scrofula. Scrofula was a skin disease also known as the king's evil, and historically, people believed it could be cured by the touch of a king. Tyrion has already described greyscale as Garin's curse, and it stands to reason that a magical illness would not be treated with antibiotics, but would have a magical cure. Assuming the touch of the rightful king/queen of Westeros has the power to cure greyscale could provide a way to 1) disprove (f)Aegon's bloodline and 2) confirm Jon Snow's parentage.

If Aegon is not a real Targaryen, his touch would do nothing for poor Jon Connington. If Jon then seeks out Daenerys for a cure, then depending on Jon Snow's legitimacy, her touch could also fail (as Rhaegar's son would inherit before his sister). This could easily lead an intelligent mind such as Tyrion to conclude that Rhaegar had other children who did not die in the sack of King's Landing, and since his affair with Lyanna Stark was common knowledge at the time, it's not a great leap to reach Jon Snow. A little bit of digging could easily confirm this, and provide much more solid proof than Bran's psychic visions that no-one else can see.

This is, of course, ruling out the idea that a Baratheon is now the rightful heir, as Robert has only bastards, and GRRM has already stated that Shireen's fate in the books is similar to her fate on the TV show. It would also require Jon to either be legitimized in the present, or for Rhaegar to have committed some sort of bigamy/invented divorce and somehow legitimized his child with Lyanna.

It's not a flawless idea, but I think it would offer an interesting way of developing the plot without relying too heavily on magical visions and prophecy. 

[Damon_Tor]

Well Greyscale isn't incurable: Shireen was cured, after all. Sure, she was left with scars, but it didn't turn her into a zombie either.

I suspect Targaryen blood offers some degree of resistance to it (ironic, I suppose, considering its history). This is why Shireen was able to survive it: the small amout of Targaryen blood in the Baratheons. This could also be why Tyrion didn't catch it at all despite full exposure, if A+J=T.

[golden_eyes]

I think Shireen survived because she caught it as a child and it's significantly less potent to children, perhaps it is harder to rot growing flesh or soemthing

[kfnnnp]

24 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

Well Greyscale isn't incurable: Shireen was cured, after all. Sure, she was left with scars, but it didn't turn her into a zombie either.

I suspect Targaryen blood offers some degree of resistance to it (ironic, I suppose, considering its history). This is why Shireen was able to survive it: the small amout of Targaryen blood in the Baratheons. This could also be why Tyrion didn't catch it at all despite full exposure, if A+J=T.

This is true, but they also never actually confirmed what she was cured with. She could have been cured after being touched by her uncle Robert who was at the time the one true king of Westeros

[Elisabetta Duò]

2 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Well Greyscale isn't incurable: Shireen was cured, after all. Sure, she was left with scars, but it didn't turn her into a zombie either.

I suspect Targaryen blood offers some degree of resistance to it (ironic, I suppose, considering its history). This is why Shireen was able to survive it: the small amout of Targaryen blood in the Baratheons. This could also be why Tyrion didn't catch it at all despite full exposure, if A+J=T.

Actually there is a theory that Tyrion will develop belated greyscale, which will kill him from inside out, turning into a gargoyle and so fullfilling both the prediction that his mouth will be his end and the dream he had in ACOK:

The key points of the theory are:

1- Twyin, Varis and Tyrion himself always said he'll die because of his inability to keep his mouth shut.

2 - when he swallows black water (potentially getting greyscale), it happens like that:

Quote

"When he opened his mouth to curse them all, black water filled his lungs, and the dark closed in around him.

3- back in ACOK, he had a dream where he was experiecing exactly the same that happens to people who suffer from greyscale 

Quote

He would have asked one of the silent sisters, but when he tried to speak he found he had no mouth. Smooth seamless skin covered his teeth. The discovery terrified him. How could he live without a mouth? He began to run. The city was not far. He would be safe inside the city, away from all these dead. He did not belong with the dead. He had no mouth, but he was still a living man. No, a lion, a lion, and alive. But when he reached the city walls, the gates were shut against him.-Tyrion Dream COK

4- greyscale can be silent for a long period of time and start from inside, so one can't tell he's ill

Quote

When will we be certain that I’m clean?“ "Truly?” said the Halfmaester. “Never. You swallowed half the river. You may be going grey even now, turning to stone from inside out, starting with your heart and lungs. ADWD 

5- Tyrion is constantly compared to gargoyles (as Shireen, who suffered from greyscale also was), so that he might literally turn into stone (because he didn't just get touched, he swallowed half the river) and so literally become stone resembling a little gargoyle

Quote

The gargoyles watched him ascend. Their eyes glowed red as hot coals in a brazier. Perhaps once they had been lions, but now they were twisted and grotesque.  (Bran)

Tyrion Lannister was sitting on the ledge above the door to the Great Hall, looking for all the world like a gargoyle. -GOT

Bugger Joffrey, bugger the queen, and bugger that twisted little gargoyle she calls a brother. Jon

Motionless as a gargoyle, Tyrion Lannister hunched on one knee atop a merlon. 

"You are a lovely girl. It seems almost obscene to squander such sweet innocence on that gargoyle. Cersei to Sansa 

Speaking for the grotesques…” Tyrion to Jamie 

"Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with ... snarling in the midst of all. ”-Moquorro

“The falling snow had covered almost all of it, but part of one gargoyle still poked above the drift, its grotesque face snarling sightless at the sky. 

There is also an old thread: 

As I said somewhere else, if this Tyrion's endgame I'm going to ask for my money back :-( both because he's my fave and because I'm TIRED of the cliche' that the antihero has ALWAYS to die (yes JkRowling, I'm looking - also - at you).

[Batbob45]

3 hours ago, kfnnnp said:

This is true, but they also never actually confirmed what she was cured with. She could have been cured after being touched by her uncle Robert who was at the time the one true king of Westeros

I can see Robert being a better uncle (way better than Renly was to her) than he was as a dad. Robert might of been a better uncle to her than Tyrion was(remember that Tyrion had no objections about using her in a rumor to go after Stannis) .For a person who claim to be about helping the  pariah of society like cripples, bastard, and broken things , he is a big hypocrite(She was not an enemy of the Lannisters).Tyrion is not an antihero. antihero do not want to do the disturbing things that Tyrion want to do to Cersei(what he said he was going to before he murder her). He also was abusive to that slave girl(what he did to her was monstrous). If he get Greyscale, than it is karma for starting to become like his dad.

[Elisabetta Duò]

1 hour ago, Batbob45 said:

I can see Robert being a better uncle (way better than Renly was to her) than he was as a dad. Robert might of been a better uncle to her than Tyrion was(remember that Tyrion had no objections about using her in a rumor to go after Stannis) .For a person who claim to be about helping the  pariah of society like cripples, bastard, and broken things , he is a big hypocrite(She was not an enemy of the Lannisters).Tyrion is not an antihero. antihero do not want to do the disturbing things that Tyrion want to do to Cersei(what he said he was going to before he murder her). He also was abusive to that slave girl(what he did to her was monstrous). If he get Greyscale, than it is karma for starting to become like his dad.

That's the most symplistic comment I've ever read on here but honestly, fine, whatever, given the comment I know that whatever I say, even if I wrote an essay, it wouldn't change your mind (which is not my goal, btw.) When Tyrion will die you'll feel satisfied, I'll feel differently. It's not like I'm not used to see my fave die, it happens every time.

[Fox of House McCloud]

6 hours ago, kfnnnp said:

If Jon then seeks out Daenerys for a cure, then depending on Jon Snow's legitimacy, her touch could also fail (as Rhaegar's son would inherit before his sister). 

I'm sorry, but this is a bit too ridiculous for me. There's nothing in the books to imply that whoever the magical universe deems the "rightful king" will be able to cure greyscale with their touch. And considering greyscale seems to progress very slowly, it would take a bit of time to even tell if it had stopped spreading.

A+ for creativity though 

[Seams]

The circumstances of the greyscale exposure for both Tyrion and Connington also seem significant: the men fall or jump into a river with the stone men. Tyrion talks earlier in the books about his mind being his weapon, and that he keeps it sharp by reading books. In other words, books are like whet stones for the sword that is his mind. The greyscale exposure comes with the wet stone men. Does it mean that exposure to the disease also "sharpens" Tyrion in some way?

Soon after falling into the river, Tyrion becomes a sellsword. Jon Connington also returns to being a sellsword. Men who "are" swords would need whet stones of some kind to keep themselves sharp. We do see Connington reacting to his symptoms with a determination to stop delaying, take some risks and get fAegon on the Iron Throne as soon as possible. Maybe the knowledge that the greyscale will kill him within a couple of years is like having a whet stone for sharpening his ambitions on behalf of his ward (sword / ward is one of GRRM's ongoing puns).

[Harry Baratheon]

Grey scale has a lot in common with the various forms of the herpes virus, but particularly the strain that can cause chickenpox/shingles, which is a fascinating disease.

It is very contagious.

It is a much less serious disease if contracted as a child, rarely causing some mild scarring but is usually mild.

If contracted as an adult, it can be debilitating or even fatal.

It can remain dormant in the central nervous for decades, and then appear in its most serious forms.

The disease also has a literary connection to ancient magic, in a way. In Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash" it was created by a Sumerian sorceror to modify the human nervous system to prevent people from having their minds controlled.   Makes me wonder if it might interfere with the power of the Others to control wights - even if it doesn't block the powers of the Others, humans killed by greyscale may be too rigid to be effectively animated as wights.