Hold the Future - Bran Theory

[The King Beyond The Wall]

Hi Everyone;

Having listened to Linda's Review of the episode on YouTube I have grown more confident of a theory which I posted earlier today as a comment in another thread and people have responded to in a positive manner. So I have decided to create a thread for it, in hopes to hear what others think of it too. If you have not watched Season 6 - Episode 5 and have not read all five books of ASOIAF, please refrain from reading this post.

 

I'm going to go ahead and say that the "Hold the Door" scene from Season 6 - Episode 5 is something Bloodraven had originally done himself (at least in the books or in the past)... Bloodraven had seen the past and the future, and he had seen this as the moment where he and Bran were lost to the 'White Walkers' (so he needed to save Bran in this moment; a moment that could play out differently in the books, but the outcome is that he saw they were both lost, and he needs to make sure Bran survives, be it at the cost of ruining Hodor's life). 

So Bloodraven went back in time to implant a memory in the past, and that is why Hodor has been internally screaming "Hold the Door" ever since that dreadful day, awaiting his destiny (a destiny that Bloodraven had planted in his head that caused his trauma in the past).

 

The way Bloodraven looked at Bran at the Tower of Joy when Bran had called to his father showed that Bloodraven himself had attempted to communicate with the past before and that he knows the consequences of doing it are dreadful, so much so, that his face is overcome by despair and sorrow; and as they wake he tells Bran that it's beautiful under the sea, but if you stay too long you will drown. Which brings me to my segue, of proving that Bloodraven and perhaps others before him have attempted to change history and caused others to suffer like Hodor.

Patchface is definitely one of those experiments with the past, the fact that Patchface knew so many events from the future and the past, all memories intertwined into his brain and spat out through riddled words and songs proves that. Jeor Mormont's Crow is perhaps another example of an entity 'stuck' in a time paradox continuum.

 

When Bloodraven told Bran at the end of the episode "the time has come... for you to become me", he meant you will do to Hodor now what I had done to Hodor before you. So that Bran would understand the consequences of tampering with the past directly. That is the lesson here, to not DIRECTLY interfere with the past. That is why he never communicated to Bran through direct speech prior to meeting him, he communicated to Bran through the three-eyed raven and hints. It was built upon years and years of experimenting that Bloodraven finally found a way to communicate with the past without the past causing the present to be damaged.


Also to prove that this interpretation of Hold the Door could be different to how it's done in the books, read the quotes, and pay close attention to the highlighted and underlined material below:

I just watched Inside The Episode.

Spoiler

Game of Thrones Season 6: Inside the Episode #5 (HBO)

 

If anything this makes me even more confident of the theory I wrote on Page 2 (glad you guys like it). What they said does not necessarily mean this is EXACTLY what will happen in the books.

David: We had this meeting with George Martin where we're trying to get as much information as possible out of him, and probably the most shocking revelation he had for us, was when he told us the origin of Hodor; how the name came about...

Dan Weiss: It was just one of the saddest and most affecting things, even sitting in a hotel room and having somebody tell you that this was going to happen in the abstract, in some way, that 'hold the door' is the origin of the name Hodor, we just that was a heart breaking idea".

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I believe the past can be altered and it obviously has its effect on the present, the problem is, the effects are never positive (at least that's from Bloodraven's interpretation). Unless Bran is the 'special one' who can alter people in the past without damaging their sanity, but Bloodraven certainly had no such powers, as he tells him; "the ink is dry". But it's obviously not dry because I believe he has already damaged both Patchface & Hodor (I'm sure there are other examples, I thought of some but for some reason I can't recall them now).

Bloodraven has been trying to alter the past but has been failing for generations, he therefore called upon the same tactics that brought him to the Cave Beyond the Wall & Children of the Forest, and forced Bran to leave his destiny and join him (perhaps originally Bran had a different story line, but Bloodraven had seen something special in him and brought him along).

What's interesting now is that Bran cannot escape to the South. The infected Bran, if he wants to go back Beyond the Wall (southwards), than the Night's King can use the infection placed upon him to bring down the magic of the Wall (the way he brought down the magic of the cave) and therefore possess the ability and attempt do what he was originally programmed to do by the Children of the Forest; destroy humanity.

[Meera of Tarth]

So you are saying that Wyllis convulsions were made by BR to make Hodor aware that someday he would have to hold the door to save Bran?

But why does BR think the consequences are dreadful?

Maybe after altering the past through Wyllis the past he (BR) knew was changed into something worse?

So, you are implying that BR knew that BRan from the Present would die and he needed somebody to save him? (He watched the past and there was not Meera or Hodor, only a past Bran who died)?

wow, it's a bit complicated, but I like it.

My take is that time is "kind of" cyclic. There has been a Past Bran, a Present Bran and possibly will be a Future Bran.

But they are not necessarily the same. Not exact timelines. There has been a connection between both Hodors (past and present) through Present Bran because he has more abilities than the ones he thinks, and it has been made unconsciously, through Present Bran.

I don't know what Past Bran did. But I'm sure there alternate timelines.

[Makk]

3 hours ago, The King Beyond The Wall said:

 

When Bloodraven told Bran at the end of the episode "the time has come... for you to become me", he meant you will do to Hodor now what I had done to Hodor before you.

I think it was all Bran who was directly responsible for what happened to Hodor. I do agree Bloodraven could be responsible for something else, but not Hodor. On the other hand in the books Bloodraven specifically tells Bran he is unable to influence the past. Is he lying? He could be but I got the impression it was the truth as far as Bloodraven knew it.

[The King Beyond The Wall]

We have two developments.

#1 - GRRM confirms although "hold the door" is the reason behind the name, the way it will pan out in the books will definitely be different to how the show interpreted it, and it will be under a different context.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4kruq7/spoilers_everything_got_to_hear_grrms_thoughts_on/

 

#2 - This is a great explanation of what happened in the final scene that I found on Reddit:

 

Quote

 

The Three Eyed Raven dying is what made Wylis able to see Bran and by extension "Hodored" him.

 

Here's my take on it: After Bran was touched by The Night King, Three Eyed Raven was all "now I have to give you all my knowledge" so he takes Bran back to the vision in Winterfell with Wylis there. They make it seem important that Bran stays there to get the rest of his warg crash course, explaining why he didn't immediately snap back to present when the White Walkers attacked. The White Walkers enter the tree, and due to Meera's pleading, Bran has to split his consciousness. One part still in the past, one part controlling Hodor in the present (this was mentioned in the behind the thrones, I think. Seems odd but D&D said so...) The White Walkers then kill Three Eyed Raven. It has been explained/implied (I might be drawing on the books here) that Three Eyed Raven uses the Weirwood trees to look back in time, and by extension Bran does too. This is why he has to grab the root whenever he is looking at the past. When Three Eyed Raven is killed by the White Walkers, the Weirwood connection dies with him, basically stranding Bran in the past vision. Now he only has one way to reconnect to the present, one person who is in both the past and present: Hodor/Wylis. This is why suddenly Wylis can see Bran, even though Bran has been warging Hodor in the present for a while before that. The trigger wasn't Bran warging into past Wylis, it was Three Eyed Raven dying, forcing Bran to use Wylis to be the link between past and present. This in turn forces Wylis to see what present Hodor is experiencing and the combined trauma breaks him. "Hold the door"

 

When Three Eyed Raven dies in the past vision, Bran's connection to the present dies with him. His only way back is through Wylis, who is Hodor in the present. This makes Wylis/Hodor Bran's connection between past and present, allowing Wylis to be aware of Bran and also experience Hodor's death.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/4krndu/everything_it_seems_like_people_are_overlooking/

 

Someone added:

 

Quote

I was thinking, according to the book "It is incredibly traumatic for a warg if the animal whose mind they have entered dies while they are controlling it". Bran needed Hodor to hold that door until his death to buy them enough time. But himself being warged into Hodor whilst he dies would be a terrible, possibly mind-breaking experience. So to not risk himself, he uses Wylis as a conduit, reaching Hodor but not really being inside him as he dies. Wylis takes that blow instead.

 

 

[Ser Quork]

1 hour ago, The King Beyond The Wall said:

We have two developments.

#1 - GRRM confirms although "hold the door" is the reason behind the name, the way it will pan out in the books will definitely be different to how the show interpreted it, and it will be under a different context.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4kruq7/spoilers_everything_got_to_hear_grrms_thoughts_on/

 

#2 - This is a great explanation of what happened in the final scene that I found on Reddit:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/4krndu/everything_it_seems_like_people_are_overlooking/

 

Someone added:

 

 

 

I like the second quote - it makes a lot of sense.  

I think the point of Bran not skinchanging a dying Hodor is important, as we know that it damages the skinchanger.  However, there is also this:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-kristian-nairn-interview-896812?u

Quote

How did you play Hodor's final moments? Some are wondering how much Bran is in there versus Hodor.

It wasn't Bran. He only gave him almost like you would slap a horse at the start of the race — a giddy-up to get him up and going. I don't think Bran would be able to do the warging thing from the situation he was in. But also remember, it wasn't Bran who told Hodor to hold the door. It was Meera. Hodor was acting under the instruction of Meera, to the start. He was terrified running down that tunnel. If he was warged, he wouldn't have been terrified. I think he realized the only way Bran and Meera could be safe was for him to be sacrificed. I don't think he was happy about it, but…

I'm still trying to unpack all of this, but the theory that the death of 3ER (in the show scenario) is the one that makes most sense to me at the moment.

[thehandwipes]

Quote

I was thinking, according to the book "It is incredibly traumatic for a warg if the animal whose mind they have entered dies while they are controlling it". Bran needed Hodor to hold that door until his death to buy them enough time. But himself being warged into Hodor whilst he dies would be a terrible, possibly mind-breaking experience. So to not risk himself, he uses Wylis as a conduit, reaching Hodor but not really being inside him as he dies. Wylis takes that blow instead.

That's really good.  Really sick, but really good.

It wasn't really clear what exactly was happening but it sure didn't look like Hodor was acting of his own free will, as some have said.  You could see both Hodor's being warged.