Bakker's TGO Excerpts II: Mining our Merest Fraction [Spoilers]s

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, JEORDHl said:

Hmn... 

Finally got around to reading Wert's article and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I mean, the majority of it is more than fine, of course, and while the Ark impact is dramatic, my suspension of disbelief drops into the non-spaces of reality with having to believe anything biological inside the Ark wasn't reduced to molecular jelly by the site-force of the crash.

Individual anti-grav suspension chambers, maybe.

And how would the majority of the Ark have become buried?

Yes, I know it's fantasy and why-believe-this-but-not-that, but The Second Apocalypse is a bit of a genre bender with so many scifi elements, which begs [for me] that physical processes/forces at least be respected.

This point is directly addressed in TGO

[JGP]

 

13 minutes ago, Werthead said:

This point is directly addressed in TGO

I'll have to take your word for it, Wert, and weigh it on the scale when I decide whether or not to continue with the series. You, rather than Hello, who has of late been striking as a bit of a shill and in his last post there, definitely as a silly, passive aggressive lulz...

[Hello World]

8 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

You, rather than Hello, who has of late been striking as a bit of a shill and in his last post there, definitely as a silly, passive aggressive lulz...

Says the guy who just wrote that... 'lulz', I guess.

[JGP]

That wasn't passive at all [grins] 

But a frustrated fanboii casting sidelong aspersions that I might not have any understanding of physics and nebulously citing agreement with Bakker on what, precisely... get the fuck out of here. 

Shit is funny.

[Kalbear]

Yeah, I don't have any problem with a spacefaring race that can apparently go from planet to planet, create wormholes, and can generate dragons being able to have some kind of protective ability to shield themselves from a major impact. Heck, if you wanted to get wacky you could think that the majority of the Inchoroi engineered themselves to become a type of protective shock jelly, protecting the others and making sure that the telephone sanitizers would live on. 

It's when you start talking about people without tech doing things that aren't tech or magic that is more of a problem. 

[JGP]

I'm interested to see how he handles it, since Wert asserts he does. But what you suggest is definitely wacky, dude... unless Nonmen tradescraft imbues their weapons with edges that cut on the molecular level, there's just no way a being engineered to physically resist forces of that nature could be hurt by a 'regular' blade or impact weapon, i.e. hammer, etc 

It would have to be some kind of shielding, I suspect, and perhaps some kind of screw mechanism to satisfy the buried aspect of Golgotterath beneath the impact crater.

[Kalbear]

Just now, JEORDHl said:

I'm interested to see how he handles it, since Wert asserts he does. But that what you suggest definitely wacky, dude... unless Nonmen tradescraft imbues their weapons with edges that cut on the molecular level, there's just no way a being engineered to physically resist forces of that nature could be hurt by a 'regular' blade or impact weapon, i.e. hammer, etc.

It would have to be some kind of shielding, I suspect, and perhaps some kind of screw mechanism to satisfy the buried aspect of Golgotterath.

It can be simply something that they've lost at this point. Or the process kills you. Think about a system that turns biomass into a shock resistant jelly. You need a certain amount of biomass - you can't just randomly produce it on the fly. The Ark probably has certain stores of biomass that it uses to produce weapons and other things as needed and desired. The only way to save some remnant of the crew would be to use most of the biomass, convert it into shock-resistant jelly, encase the remaining inchies in it and hope for the best. 

So no, they can't produce skin that can resist it. They can produce some jello that resists that level of impact.

Or it's just some inertial dampener star trek crap. They have portable laser weapons; their tech is pretty advanced.

Another idea: the Ark doesn't ever have living crew during flight. It produces crew after landing. This goes with the idea that it is the Inchoroi 'mother'. So it lands, is heavily damaged but able to produce idiot kings and objectivists only, and makes those.

Why it was buried is actually pretty simple: when an asteroid hits a planet it sends ejecta up around the impact. We see this in volcano explosions as well. 

[JGP]

12 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

It can be simply something that they've lost at this point. Or the process kills you. Think about a system that turns biomass into a shock resistant jelly. You need a certain amount of biomass - you can't just randomly produce it on the fly. The Ark probably has certain stores of biomass that it uses to produce weapons and other things as needed and desired. The only way to save some remnant of the crew would be to use most of the biomass, convert it into shock-resistant jelly, encase the remaining inchies in it and hope for the best. 

So no, they can't produce skin that can resist it. They can produce some jello that resists that level of impact.

Or it's just some inertial dampener star trek crap. They have portable laser weapons; their tech is pretty advanced.

Another idea: the Ark doesn't ever have living crew during flight. It produces crew after landing. This goes with the idea that it is the Inchoroi 'mother'. So it lands, is heavily damaged but able to produce idiot kings and objectivists only, and makes those.

Why it was buried is actually pretty simple: when an asteroid hits a planet it sends ejecta up around the impact. We see this in volcano explosions as well. 

Oh, I know. It's just, what, like 90% of the structure is buried? Defies credulity a bit on first impression when this is being depicted as a full on crash instead of a slightly out of control descent. Like I said, if he handles it he handles it. I'm just curious about the eventuality of it.

Like, was the Ark's passage actually an interdimensional phase into our plane of existence, perhaps explaining the pop and lens effect upon the Nail? Why crash if it wasn't out of control? If it wasn't out of control, the crash was on purpose then-- to clear the surroundings and give them time to acclimate? Intent definitely suggests control, so why not crash where it will maximize disruption to Nonmen society? 

I don't know. Guess we'll see.

[Hello World]

29 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

That wasn't passive at all [grins] 

But a frustrated fanboii casting sidelong aspersions that I might not have any understanding of physics and nebulously citing agreement with Bakker on what, precisely... get the fuck out of here. 

Shit is funny.

'lulz'.

I guess I derailed the thread, though, sorry.

[JGP]

Nah, more like a mustard burp. Momentarily tangy, then forgotten in the air.

[Kalbear]

Oh, I thought we already knew that. I had thought that it was stated that the Ark crashing was absolutely unintentional. Didn't Wutteat say something along those lines? 

Remember, the Inchies came out and weren't trying to kill anyone right away. They first got investigated and then summarily executed, then they were guarded by nonmen, and the only reason that they managed to survive was because of Nin'jan'jin. It's not clear how long it was before they were able to figure out how to speak to nonmen either. 

New thread here.

[themerchant]

5 hours ago, Callan S. said:

To be fair they aren't doing the sexy times all that often. It might be many times that otherwise. But it'd still be a very low rate.

For example, peeps say we share 99% genetic material with orangutans- but can we mate with one and produce a baby?

Yep, just went there... >:)

the ones in Cil'Aujus  were. Remember Akka telling the story in judging eye about how one of the prized concubines had carried to pregnancy if not term twice (or words similiar). I of course acknowledge your point. i was just pointing out we have 2 examples.

 

[JGP]

Dude, unlike my brother I do not have a photographic memory. When I read you guys debating and bringing up shit at will that I've clearly forgotten, it amazes me sometimes.

Just thinking out loud here:

So, Inchies have been seeking this particular world for a very, very long time. Clearly they weren't just skipping around the universe hoping to just happen upon it as the odds of that are infinitesimal. So, they had some sense that it fit certain criteria that would make it a possibility. Suggesting what, some ability to scan long range... though for what exactly? For that matter, I wonder if we'll get an explanation of sorts regarding why the possible resolution to damnation is only a local phenomenon.  

[themerchant]

According to the non-men it was populated when it crashed. As they made a rough death count as a fraction of the whole. 999/1000 died i believe or it's expressed as 1/1000 died.

If you can traverse the galaxy, you can probably stop a relatively slow crash from being fatal for everyone. The ark seems to have not been damaged externally very much. It also defeats the ability of two races to damage atm.

 

[themerchant]

2 hours ago, Callan S. said:

I seem to remember a glossary in one of the books mentioning some hidden chamber they secreted themselves in. Not sure.

The Inchoroi are such tragic figures - I really didn't get until the descriptions of damnation torture, I think because the idea of such hell isn't really part of my cultural history.

Yeah the Mangecca found them after seeing the inverse flame (i think), thankfully they had found someone to explain what they saw, or words to that effect. That may be from the atrocity tale though.

[themerchant]

Could be some sort of complex deflection system that redirects all the force and dissipates it.  Be a shit story if they all died in the crash though.

[Callan S.]

In terms of the sunk ship, why could it not have simply burrowed into the ground? After impact?

I think one of the glossaries does say a bunch of inchies did die in the impact. But not all.

I mean you could even have really low tech - they have escape pods with parachutes. Once the heat dies down, they scurry back into the arc (finding most of their tech wrecked).

The parachutes are black, of course! Streaming out of the ship as it comes down...

But it is cooler if they rode it down - far more metal!