Nights King End Game

[GabeSnow]

Hi I was just wondering if anyone can explain to me why it was so important to the Night's King to kill Bloodraven and Bran? How does this help him in his endgame? To me, it doesn't seem they pose much of a threat to him? Can anyone explain? Thanks.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

First of all, we are not sure that Bran's death is required for the NIghts King. he may just have wanted Bran to leave the cave and be chased to (or past) the wall.
Bran now wears the mark of the Nights King, enabling him to 'break' the shields at the entrance of the cave.
It is therefore possible that, when Bran passes through the wall, the NK can do the same trick to the wall as he did with the cave (but this is just speculation).

The thing we have learned in this episode, is that the WW were created by TCOTF, trying to protect themselves from extermination by mankind. However, their plan backfired, and now they too are being threatened by the WW's. WW's obviously have 1 goal: total domination of Westeros, no matter who gets in their way.

The strange part to me is that they have been created by thrusting an obsidian dagger in a human's heart, but that doesn't explain why they can be killed by obsidian daggers.

[grufolo]

16 minutes ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

First of all, we are not sure that Bran's death is required for the NIghts King. he may just have wanted Bran to leave the cave and be chased to (or past) the wall.
Bran now wears the mark of the Nights King, enabling him to 'break' the shields at the entrance of the cave.
It is therefore possible that, when Bran passes through the wall, the NK can do the same trick to the wall as he did with the cave (but this is just speculation).

This

oh, and the dagger used to create the WW was probably just a magical item sharpened as a dagger so to be able to penetrate

[Lord Friendzone]

47 minutes ago, Ser Walter of AShwood said:

Bran now wears the mark of the Nights King, enabling him to 'break' the shields at the entrance of the cave.
It is therefore possible that, when Bran passes through the wall, the NK can do the same trick to the wall as he did with the cave (but this is just speculation).

True. I think the Wall will fall thanks to Bran...well it's not entirely his fault but this mark will help Walkers.

[CalvoHobbo]

I'm still not convinced that Blood Raven was even killed. I have a hard time understanding why he became a "hero" late in life.And I assumed that the WWs just wanted to capture Bran, not necessarily kill him. 

[Jon Snow Bengal]

To save the trees. They're just mad environmentalists who will do whatever it takes to protect the Weirwood trees against anything/anyone who could harm them.

[ummester]

7 minutes ago, Jon Snow Bengal said:

To save the trees. They're just mad environmentalists who will do whatever it takes to protect the Weirwood trees against anything/anyone who could harm them.

Pretty much

The Nights King will help with someone else's end game - either Bran's or Jon's, as their servant. I don't think the Nights King has their own end game - he's just a kind of terminator gardener, as mentioned above.

[GabeSnow]

OK but WHY? That's what I'm asking. I assume that there is some power that Bloodraven or Bran have that is a threat to the White Walkers. What is it? If they only want to capture Bran, why? Can they use his power for their own ends? Help!

[GabeSnow]

I have a theory on the obsidian dagger thing. It's like magnets, "like" repels "like" Makes sense to me.

[LadyAlisande]

4 minutes ago, GabeSnow said:

OK but WHY? That's what I'm asking. I assume that there is some power that Bloodraven or Bran have that is a threat to the White Walkers. What is it? If they only want to capture Bran, why? Can they use his power for their own ends? Help!

If you were an evil king bent on worldwide destruction, how would you feel about people who could mind-travel from safe spaces and spy on you and your operations? And if they also had access to knowledge of all history, giving them insights into how you might be defeated? Yeah, they're probably a bigger threat to you than practically anyone in the world, and they happen to be right in your backyard, so why wouldn't you try to get rid of them through any means necessary.

[GabeSnow]

Yeah OK I guess that makes sense. It just seems like such a massively urgent priority to the NK, that I feel like there's more to it. I mean, as soon as he discovers Bran, he becomes his No 1 priority.

[ummester]

1 minute ago, GabeSnow said:

OK but WHY? That's what I'm asking. I assume that there is some power that Bloodraven or Bran have that is a threat to the White Walkers. What is it? If they only want to capture Bran, why? Can they use his power for their own ends? Help!

This is what I'm currently thinking, though it may change next episode

The CotF couldn't control the Nights King because it was made from a man. The 3 Eyed Raven could control him and was trying to pass that control onto Bran. The Nights King wanted to get to Bran before the the 3 Eyed Raven passed the power on, to free himself.

Why did the 3 Eyed Raven let the white walkers kill people in the North? Because, like the walkers, the Raven wants to protect the trees. The trees give wargs and greenseers power.

If the download from the 3 Eyed Raven has gone well enough, Bran will gain some kind of communion with or control of the Nights King. Why does this matter? Because when Bran remembers who pushed him out of the window, he will march the walkers on King's Landing.

[GabeSnow]

Hmm I don't know, but that theory has some merit. I was wondering about this, because the WW have obviously been created as kind of a WMD, I thought that maybe the three eyed raven was their method of controlling it, which is why the WW are so intent on killing him, and finally breaking their own chains forever? What does everyone think?

[LadyAlisande]

1 minute ago, ummester said:

This is what I'm currently thinking, though it may change next episode

The CotF couldn't control the Nights King because it was made from a man. The 3 Eyed Raven could control him and was trying to pass that control onto Bran. The Nights King wanted to get to Bran before the the 3 Eyed Raven passed the power on, to free himself.

Why did the 3 Eyed Raven let the white walkers kill people in the North? Because, like the walkers, the Raven wants to protect the trees. The trees give wargs and greenseers power.

If the download from the 3 Eyed Raven has gone well enough, Bran will gain some kind of communion with or control of the Nights King. Why does this matter? Because when Bran remembers who pushed him out of the window, he will march the walkers on King's Landing.

I didn't realize the 3 Eyed Raven had control over the Night King -- just regular warg-ing control, or some other magic? Is that from the books?

I don't think Bran will send the walkers to King's Landing, that doesn't seem like his MO. He is gaining wisdom and insight, not turning into a vengeful brat. It's very possible -- and I think this has been hinted -- that he wouldn't have such strong powers had he not been paralyzed.

[ummester]

1 minute ago, LadyAlisande said:

I didn't realize the 3 Eyed Raven had control over the Night King -- just regular warg-ing control, or some other magic? Is that from the books?

I don't think Bran will send the walkers to King's Landing, that doesn't seem like his MO. He is gaining wisdom and insight, not turning into a vengeful brat. It's very possible -- and I think this has been hinted -- that he wouldn't have such strong powers had he not been paralyzed.

We hated Jamie at the start but can see his good side now. I'm sure this story will have reversals both ways - good people becoming bad and bad people becoming good. I'm sure we are menat to be confused over which side we pick in the great war (when it finally gets here).

Re the 3 Eyed Raven having control - it's a guess, based on him telling the Nights King to leave him, before he dies.

[GabeSnow]

As GRRM said, the battle for good and evil occurs more so in the human heart than in a cheesy, one dimensional conflict between the "bad guys and the good guys". Which is why I am curious about the White Walker's motives. In every other aspect of the story, he has refused to make cliched Villains and Good Guys battle each other, so I wonder if the Walkers are actually bad guys. Maybe there is more to their agenda than we can see??

[LadyAlisande]

Just now, ummester said:

We hated Jamie at the start but can see his good side now. I'm sure this story will have reversals both ways - good people becoming bad and bad people becoming good. I'm sure we are menat to be confused over which side we pick in the great war (when it finally gets here).

Re the 3 Eyed Raven having control - it's a guess, based on him telling the Nights King to leave him, before he dies.

Jaime has remained an ambiguous character; although it's easier to sympathize with him, he is still in a pretty twisted relationship with his sister, and even raped her next to their son's deathbed. 

Bran himself is no less ambiguous; the moral implications of warg-ing into other living creatures, particularly humans, are problematic alone, but his dumbassery is responsible for ruining Hodor's entire life plus bringing a reign of Night King terror down that killed a bunch of his friends. And if he hadn't been climbing that wall that day...

I'm sick of Bran's dumb mistakes massively impacting the world. Time for him to grow up and do something positive. If all of this sacrifice and suffering is just building up for him to cause an insane amount of devastation by unleashing the Night King and army on Westeros, that will be super disappointing. 

[ummester]

9 minutes ago, GabeSnow said:

Hmm I don't know, but that theory has some merit. I was wondering about this, because the WW have obviously been created as kind of a WMD, I thought that maybe the three eyed raven was their method of controlling it, which is why the WW are so intent on killing him, and finally breaking their own chains forever? What does everyone think?

Actually, thinking about it more, this is why Jon's linage matters. Bran will march the walkers on King's Landing with Jon in the lead, as the rightful ruler of Westeros.

The problem is, when they arrive, Dany will have made her way up from the sout and it will be an almighty 3 episode shit fight, leaving just about everything in ruins.

[GabeSnow]

Just now, LadyAlisande said:

Jaime has remained an ambiguous character; although it's easier to sympathize with him, he is still in a pretty twisted relationship with his sister, and even raped her next to their son's deathbed. 

Bran himself is no less ambiguous; the moral implications of warg-ing into other living creatures, particularly humans, are problematic alone, but his dumbassery is responsible for ruining Hodor's entire life plus bringing a reign of Night King terror down that killed a bunch of his friends. And if he hadn't been climbing that wall that day...

I'm sick of Bran's dumb mistakes massively impacting the world. Time for him to grow up and do something positive. If all of this sacrifice and suffering is just building up for him to cause an insane amount of devastation by unleashing the Night King and army on Westeros, that will be super disappointing. 

Unfortunately, we sometimes don't learn until we massively fuck up. You are right, though. Here's hoping he takes something away from his mistakes, and gains serious wisdom as a result.

[ummester]

3 minutes ago, GabeSnow said:

As GRRM said, the battle for good and evil occurs more so in the human heart than in a cheesy, one dimensional conflict between the "bad guys and the good guys". Which is why I am curious about the White Walker's motives. In every other aspect of the story, he has refused to make cliched Villains and Good Guys battle each other, so I wonder if the Walkers are actually bad guys. Maybe there is more to their agenda than we can see??

It won't be good guys and bad guys.

If it's team Stark and white walkers vs team Lannister with the human armies and faith of the 7 inside the city and team Dany with her dragons and Red faith, who do you want to win? And what's the bet no-one does, that the game of thrones leads to the thrones destruction.