Religion

[SerMixalot]

First, welcome to the forum! 

To expand a little on the above.

The religion of Rhollor or the God of Light recognizes only 2 Gods-Rhollor and the One Who Cannot Be Named (which is essentially darkness)  This religions consider all other god as false.  This religion has a savior figure called Azor Azhai that will save the world

The Faceless Men is essentially a group that believes in one god who has many faces-basically recognizing all religions but they all are really one entity that embraces death

The Faith of the Seven is essentially a southern religion.  Catelyn (being a Tully from Riverrun) was raised in the Faith and Sansa (not Arya) followed her footsteps.  In the show the Faith is run by the High Sparrow (similar to a Pope) who is attempting to take political as well as spiritual authority.  The Faith are the basis of knighthood in Westerosi.  They are essentially a more modern religion compared to some. 

The Old Gods refers to the religion of the North-who are descended from a different race of men than the southerners.  Their religion is focused more on nature and use the Wierwoods as something that communes with their gods.  The Children of the Forest prayed to the Old Gods and the northerners converted to their religion

The Dothraki have their own religion with a savior figure in the form of the Stallion that Will Mount the World

The Iron Born believe in the Drowned God, where not a lot has been described about.

 

 

[Warsaw]

1 minute ago, LePezzy66 said:

I'm sorry. I could've known you were a woman. But sir just sound cool to me. And you were being cool. :]

And yeah, that's right, they build The Wall! That's impressive! I don't know about the Stepstones, though. Haven't read the books (yet). But it sounds awesome indeed!

As Someone els here said, maybe the LoL SEEMS most powerfull, bc he has powerfull priests, but isn't really the strongest. I hope we get more information about religion soon!

Or maybe we do live in the eye of a blue-eyed giant...

No offense taken. It does sound cooler.

Absolutely, the LoL religion seems to be all sizzle and no steak. Pretty lights and glamours and ominous words, but little else. Of course, shadow binders are very impressive. But most of it is elaborate magic and illusion.

Don't worry, you will get more info in the books, although we're in the dark about many things as well.

(Of course, if you have ANY questions about the books while reading, ask away! =) )

[LePezzy66]

Everyone, thanks for replying! You've all been helpful! I never thought anyone would read this.

 

This is a nice forum (not that I have any experience to compare it with).

[Scorpion92]

1 hour ago, Warsaw said:

A big, loud NO to everything you just said. You clearly didn't fully understand the character, nor his context. You're just straight up making stuff up.

Of course I am making stuff up, read my posts carefully.

I am saying that I will not be surprised that the source of all these visions, prophecies, and religions is Three Eyed Crow, who I believe to be future Bran. Those three examples are just very general outline of what I think might be happening through time.

And I have read the books enough to understand Bran's importance in the story. The books started with his POV, and it will end with his POV. Why? Because he is the most powerful being in this universe. His last POV, I bet, will include "flying" his consciousness  over the world and showing us what transpires with characters, people, areas now that there is "a dream of spring". From Isle of Faces on God's Eye. Even the island and the lake scream Bran and Three Eyed Crow.

If that does not align with your own theories, that is fine, but do not tell me that I do not understand character. You do not happen to own the last two books and know how the story and context unfolds.

[Warsaw]

1 hour ago, Scorpion92 said:

Of course I am making stuff up, read my posts carefully.

I am saying that I will not be surprised that the source of all these visions, prophecies, and religions is Three Eyed Crow, who I believe to be future Bran. Those three examples are just very general outline of what I think might be happening through time.

And I have read the books enough to understand Bran's importance in the story. The books started with his POV, and it will end with his POV. Why? Because he is the most powerful being in this universe. His last POV, I bet, will include "flying" his consciousness  over the world and showing us what transpires with characters, people, areas now that there is "a dream of spring". From Isle of Faces on God's Eye. Even the island and the lake scream Bran and Three Eyed Crow.

If that does not align with your own theories, that is fine, but do not tell me that I do not understand character. You do not happen to own the last two books and know how the story and context unfolds.

No, that's the thing, you can't base a theory on the shit you make up. The sole exception being fan fiction.

Those three things you quote are based on little to no evidence, and GRRM himself has confirmed the identity of the Three Eyed Raven. It's not Bran. Also, time travel doesn't work that way in this universe. The show deformed it, but if you read it in the books, it's made very clear that he can only see and whisper through the trees. Sure, he'll grow more powerful, but on what evidence do you base your theory? That he's behind ALL MAGIC?

Besides, if your theory is true and he can do ANYTHING, he would've made everything not happen in the first place, and, as you so eloquently phrased, BAM! problem solved.

There is a HUGE jump between "Bran can sorta see things through trees and is a skinchanger and he'll eventually get really good at it" to "HE'S THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE". A jump you make with absolutely no logical steps. It's ridiculous.

[Scorpion92]

6 minutes ago, Warsaw said:

No, that's the thing, you can't base a theory on the shit you make up. The sole exception being fan fiction.

Those three things you quote are based on little to no evidence, and GRRM himself has confirmed the identity of the Three Eyed Raven. It's not Bran. Also, time travel doesn't work that way in this universe. The show deformed it, but if you read it in the books, it's made very clear that he can only see and whisper through the trees. Sure, he'll grow more powerful, but on what evidence do you base your theory? That he's behind ALL MAGIC?

Besides, if your theory is true and he can do ANYTHING, he would've made everything not happen in the first place, and, as you so eloquently phrased, BAM! problem solved.

There is a HUGE jump between "Bran can sorta see things through trees and is a skinchanger and he'll eventually get really good at it" to "HE'S THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE". A jump you make with absolutely no logical steps. It's ridiculous.

There is plenty evidence in the books that he is just scratching a surface of his abilities. He talks to Theon, Ned and Jon on several occasions through wind in their POVs. You can only imagine the things he can do with more time and mastery over his powers.

He cannot undo everything because the stuff already happened! That is not how time travel works in ASOIAF. He knows Long Night is coming, and to save mankind from this terror he needs to do what he needs to do. By the time he becomes powerful enough to go in the past and influence events he will not be able to bring his family back or undo stuff that has been done to him to that point. It already happened! The only thing he can influence is future.

And no, Bloodraven is not Three Eyed Raven. Bran THINKS BR is Three Eyed Crow, but if you reread the chapter where Bran is in coma and he is falling down, you might see that there is more to it. He NOTICES a third eye on the raven ONLY AFTER HE gets third eye. That is very telling in my book. And when Bran straight on asks Bloodraven whether he is Three Eyed Crow, Bloodraven replies something along lines "I have been called many things". Which is NOT "yes" in my books.

Bran is not going to just see things through trees. Bloodraven specifically tells him that he cannot interact with people in the past. He tried but never could. Bran will, as evidenced from the show. And no, show writers will not include something THAT massive without having some tips from George.

[Warsaw]

Ok, let's take this slowly.

34 minutes ago, Scorpion92 said:

There is plenty evidence in the books that he is just scratching a surface of his abilities.

We agree on this, it's exactly what I said. But again, "more power" does not equal "INFINITE POWER AND GODLINESS".

35 minutes ago, Scorpion92 said:

And no, Bloodraven is not Three Eyed Raven. Bran THINKS BR is Three Eyed Crow, but if you reread the chapter where Bran is in coma and he is falling down, you might see that there is more to it. He NOTICES a third eye on the raven ONLY AFTER HE gets third eye. That is very telling in my book. And when Bran straight on asks Bloodraven whether he is Three Eyed Crow, Bloodraven replies something along lines "I have been called many things". Which is NOT "yes" in my books.

Where do I even start. Bran doesn't even know who Brynden Rivers is. We, as readers, deduced it, and the author confirmed it. What more do you want?

I find absolutely no connection between the moment he notices the third eye and the identity of the Raven. He sees it because he earns it. It's mirror imagery, very common in literature. It's dream language, i.e. not literal. He will become the raven, sure, but now, Brynden is. And yes, he has been called many things. So what? So has Daenerys. So has the Devil. It means nothing.

Besides, if you base your theory in just that, and put it against all the other evidence we have on Brynden, well, you come up losing by far.

39 minutes ago, Scorpion92 said:

Bran is not going to just see things through trees. Bloodraven specifically tells him that he cannot interact with people in the past. He tried but never could. Bran will, as evidenced from the show. And no, show writers will not include something THAT massive without having some tips from George.

There, you said the thing. Deductions from the show are very dangerous. And they have actually changed very important things, so we, as responsible readers, can't let it influence the books.

Besides... when does he interact? He calls his father. That means nothing. In the books he whispers to Theon and he hears him. So, nothing new from the show. Where is the REAL interaction? Whispering is not making crucial changes. There is no evidence whatsoever on what you say.

"The Hodor incident", you might say. There, he was trying to warg in a person that was both in past and present, and it was catastrophic. It's hard to warg: with Hodor is easier because he's simple minded. We've seen, in the books, what warging another person does, and it's horrific. He couldn't repeat that if he tried, and really, as traumatic as it was, do you think he would? If so, what will the outcome be? More Hodors? It leads to nowhere.

 

All this without even saying that it would be very poor storytelling if it went that way. And GRRM is a good storyteller.

[Damon_Tor]

It seems most likely to me that each religion represents a psychic gestalt. A typical human, individually, has no psychic power to speak of, but the psychic power of humans is instead harnessed through these gestalt entities. A variety of methods exist to tap into these gestalts: near-death-experiences (such as drowning) trances (fire-staring) or psychotropic drugs (shade of the evening). The people/organizations to watch out for are those that appear to be trying to tap into MULTIPLE gestalts at once: the Dosh Kaleen, the Faceless Men, and Euron Greyjoy.

The Old Gods are a different thing, though: the Old Gods are not a human gestalt, it is a gestalt of the Children of the Forest. It is both more powerful and less benevolent because of this.

[HoodedCrow]

It seems like these Gods are writer Gods. There are the Manichean, light and dark Gods of black and white...which is cognitively troublesome, and old fashioned. There are the seven archetypal Gods, which is an expansion on the male Trinity plus Virgin Mother, and is a broader pantheon. There is a many faced God, Old pantheistic nature Gods and a drowned God. Then there are people who are fairly accepting of all the Gods or none of the Gods, and the humanistic grey character universalistic thinkers.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

On 16/06/2016 at 11:08 PM, LePezzy66 said:

So you say that the "magic" in ASOIAF (and GoT) is just part of the world, and that humans don't understand that, and thus worship it? That's very interesting.. But don't we defy anything that is stronger, more powerfull than humans as a god? So then wouldn't magic BE a "god"?

I like how you describe gods as "salad dressing" though! That's how I think of religion in our world as well.

In the ASOIF magic is a force that exists in the world just like gravity and electromagnetism - it is just there. Those that study and can understand these forces better can manipulate them and use them to variable degrees of proficiency. Gods are not involved. Gods are myths and stories.