Magog Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 This really bothers me. See, I know Martin said that he never wanted to create a world in which good and pretty fights against evil and ugly. In line with that, I suspected that there is much to the story of scary and ugly White Walkers than meets the eye. I wished that they would be the Stark's secret weapon and a reason why Starks' words are "Winter is coming" and would be a weapon for vengeance and a defense against dragons. But, why were they looming around in the first episode of the first season and in prologue of the first book, long before Starks were in danger and long before there were any new dragons? Obviously, they seem to have their own motives. At least, now they do. In light of the events which ended the episode no. 5 of the 6th season, I learned two things: - White Walkers were supposed to save the nature as it was (Children of the Forest and giants) from the oncoming invasion of humans - they did that, obviously, at least beyond the wall, where giants and children are still present. - White Walkers readily killed their creators and were eager to kill Brandon Stark - this blew my mind. I thought they had a plan which involved a living Stark, but that is obviously not the case. It made another question rise: did they follow Bran in order to kill him, or in order to kill Bloodraven? Any insights are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 We just don't know if they came to kill Bloodraven as well as Bran. They certainly came to kill Bran. I wonder if the Other would have killed him if Bran hadn't been able to untie himself from that scene. Or maybe more likely, his only intent was to mark him. Damn this was a devasting episode. Summer dead, Hodor dead, Bloodraven dead. Fucking hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandwipes Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I think this episode was their way to hit some important plot points and then go completely off book. The only things we learned about the books are vague concepts about Hodor's name and the origins of the Others. I don't feel like any of the rest of it was book, especially not Leaf's Aliens moment. "You always were an asshole, Summer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Well, for one, the Others in the books don't look like the White Walkers on the show. They're described as and supposed to be otherworldly and bootyful, not demonic-looking old men. I imagine the books will give them a lot more backstory and (hopefully) develop their 'culture' a lot more than the show. Even the show brought up more questions than answers, and it looks like they're doing that deliberately. As it stands, at least from what the show has revealed, the WW seem a bit vanilla - at least compared to how GRRM talks about 'em. So that means that either the show's cut out a lot of meat from 'em, or GRRM hyped them up too much and they're not as mysterious and interesting as we were lead to believe. I suppose them being nature-defenders would fall into the 'they're not really evil' category, but as of now they don't seem to be all that different to men; what, with all their taunts and dickish things they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magog Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Cz-99 said: Well, for one, the Others in the books don't look like the White Walkers on the show. They're described as and supposed to be otherworldly and bootyful, not demonic-looking old men. Exactly. I remember I watched an interview in which Martin specifically said that he does not want any orc-like creatures in his story. That made me assume that the Others are at least few levels above that cliche portrayal of "evil" forces, and possibly not even that "evil" at all. I thought that, in the endgame, we will chose our champions much like we choose what sport team to root for in an epic finale, I really thought we would be given the difficult chance to chose between two equally evil and equally good sides; importantly, I expected the Others to be an ally of one side, not the ultimate outside threat that will unite entire humanity, plus dragons, plus red faith, etc. Really, I thought the story will give us reasons to support them, at least to some of us who believed they had hidden agenda. It seems there is only one agenda, though, and it is all about killing and taking revenge. Currently, there are no reasons to root for them, and this is so only because they are portrayed as murdering and dark but yet unstoppable force. You, however, gave me hope that book will do it differently, so I'm good for now. But, still, man, do they need to be like that, even in the show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 15 minutes ago, Magog said: Exactly. I remember I watched an interview in which Martin specifically said that he does not want any orc-like creatures in his story. That made me assume that the Others are at least few levels above that cliche portrayal of "evil" forces, and possibly not even that "evil" at all. I thought that, in the endgame, we will chose our champions much like we choose what sport team to root for in an epic finale, I really thought we would be given the difficult chance to chose between two equally evil and equally good sides; importantly, I expected the Others to be an ally of one side, not the ultimate outside threat that will unite entire humanity, plus dragons, plus red faith, etc. Really, I thought the story will give us reasons to support them, at least to some of us who believed they had hidden agenda. It seems there is only one agenda, though, and it is all about killing and taking revenge. Currently, there are no reasons to root for them, and this is so only because they are portrayed as murdering and dark but yet unstoppable force. You, however, gave me hope that book will do it differently, so I'm good for now. But, still, man, do they need to be like that, even in the show... If we're lucky, the finale will play out like a Greek epic, where the 'good' side is defined by where you stand - although here more in terms of ideals than status. The Illiad can be seen from the Trojan perspective or the Greek, and both can provide valid arguments for their case. Or alternatively, it can be viewed from a third (non-involved) party and it can be viewed as pointless and as a giant overreaction by both sides. In order for this to be the case, you wouldn't even have to do anything big with the WW. If they're simply conquerors, well they're already not evil. The humans of Westeros have - in recent years - scourged the land and destroyed things that were rooted in history since way back when. I doubt many would claim it as a just and necessary war, at least in the way it happened. The WW coming in and taking over wouldn't be any different. The only way to absolutely side with the side opposing them is if their goal is to exterminate every, single human - simply because, as bad as the humans are, they didn't commit genocide on that big a scale. However, as already mentioned, simply seeking the absolute destruction of humanity is really basic and not unique in the slightest; I suppose one could make a logical reasoning for it - such as the humans somehow causing the WW to die, and killing them is the only way to ensure survival - but that's sketchy at best. I don't hide the fact that I don't think too highly of D&D at this point, and I think they've made a lot of silly decisions over the years. However, if GRRM truly has some magnificent idea for the Others, I really don't think D&D would actually scrap it in favor of a generic idea for 'em. I could be wrong, though, and at this point nothing would surprise me. There's many reasons for why the WW might look the way they do in the show, and they might've even touched on it in an interview or something (cba to google it), but whatever the case we'll just have to wait and see. It's hard getting any kind of traction when discussing this type of stuff since the only source of potential information we can compare the show stuff to - the next book - is not out yet. So till then, we can only hope that D&D, despite changing the WW's physical appearance, have the same goal/end-game in mind as GRRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacala Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I don't think the WW wants to kill Bran. the question is why they came after Bran ? whats is Bran role in the story from WW perspective they are doing the right things and now they are zombies ? what bothers me is the travel technology of the WW. how the hell they beam up to Bran when they move so slow from the start of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hol Horse Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 9 minutes ago, Pacala said: I don't think the WW wants to kill Bran. the question is why they came after Bran ? whats is Bran role in the story from WW perspective they are doing the right things and now they are zombies ? What bothers me is the travel technology of the WW. how the hell they beam up to Bran when they move so slow from the start of the story. Who do you think Littlefinger got the teleportation machine from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magog Posted May 25, 2016 Author Share Posted May 25, 2016 11 minutes ago, Pacala said: I don't think the WW wants to kill Bran. the question is why they came after Bran ? whats is Bran role in the story from WW perspective they are doing the right things and now they are zombies ? what bothers me is the travel technology of the WW. how the hell they beam up to Bran when they move so slow from the start of the story. They don't want to kill him? Really? But yet they let wights onto him who then kill his direwolf and Hodor while attempting to murder him? Are you suggesting they expected Bran to survive? If yes, explain how? He was very lucky though, to have Summer, CotF, and Hodor die instead of him, and that is the only reason he is still alive. What happens next, well, we'll see... Travel technology in their case is understandable, they do have magic, and we have no clue to what they are really capable of yet, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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