Have they lost it?

[Desert Fox]

8 hours ago, John Doe said:

The first four seasons were more faithful and pretty much everyone agrees that those were better than the last two. So how is it strange that people call for a more faithful adaption?

People have been really enjoying this season so far. It's off to a way better start than S2 and 3, and arguably 1 and 4 too.

Maybe the show fucks up the back 5 episodes, but I'd argue the first 5 of S6 are better than the first 5 of S2-4.

Plus there is no such thing as a faithful S6 adaptation. There is no book.

[BalerionTheCat]

I love the books first and foremost. The 5 books, no slacking for the last 2. I'm fine, more or less, when D&D change something. I understand, larger public, budget and time constraints, whatever. Not all changes are bad. But I've come to judge the show by how much it is faithful to the books. At least to the spirit of the books.

Now that the show is beyond the books, I have a difficulty to either like or dislike the stuff. Except when something is clearly not within in the book spirit. Like Dorne for example. But the current pace is much too rushed. It leaves no logic to anything.

[Pecan]

11 hours ago, Daske said:

There is no chance in hell of this.

You are ignoring how successful the show is. Noone (normal watchers) would spend all the time to watch it apart from dedicated fans. And even then those that hate the current version would just start complaining again that it was also rubbish because of something or other that wasn't 'right'.

Maybe in 50 years. Ditto LotR.

 

How many versions of Batman have we had? Superman? Truthfully, 15 years is probably too soon. I'm sure you're right about that. But probably not 50 years before it's tried again. 

[Pecan]

Since season 1, I've put a lot of thought into the process of adaptation. Like most, I didn't have any real objections to the first season. It seemed a more or less straightforward retelling of the books. But, I do remember someone on this forum chiming in about lost opportunities in such a faithful retelling. The example given, as I recall, was the scene where the peasants come to King's Landing to complain about Gregor Clegane destroying their village. The commenter made a really good point about that. He (or she) asked why that wasn't shown? Television is a visual medium after all. Whenever possible, you're supposed to show not tell. 

So that got me thinking quite a bit about how writers go about telling a story. GRRM wrote A Game of Thrones and the ensuing novels as novels, rather than screenplays. He chose a unique and non-linear narrative structure - the strict POV that lacked any sort of omniscient guide to the reader.  For the reader, this made for a fantastic, immersive experience. But if he had been writing this story for the screen, wouldn't he have done it differently? I think in fact he would. Now, I can't really say precisely what he would have done in that situation, but I do think that when adapting a novel series like ASOIAF, it's a fair question to ask: how should we tell this story for the screen? 

 

[Anythingatall]

On 5/28/2016 at 10:49 PM, GraveWorries said:

I seriously doubt that you have ever read, or are even capable of reading, a single book in your sad, pitiful waste of space, excuse of an existence.

You clearly have never read any of ASOIAF so what gives you any right to make comments comparing a show to a book you've never read?

I seriously hope you are straight up trolling because if you actually care enough to be this angry (or even slightly annoyed for that matter) you need a serious reality check.

[Nevets]

6 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

The first four seasons were based on books that are actually good. Feast and Dance are entirely different animals, so a straightforward faithful adaptation just doesn't cut it with them. 

I do agree that D&D didn't do a good job of salvaging the better bits of the last books, though. 

I am currently watching s 5 on DVD but so far I would say that the best part in the show were weak spots in the book and vice versa (Dorne excepted.  It is bad in both)  Tyrion and Meereen are, so far, improvements.  But the Wall/Stannis/Winterfell was the best of the books and is a mess, especially Winterfell.  KL and Jaime in the Riverlands and his relationship with Cersei was also good in the books and has been mucked up in the show.  While not a bad as I had feared, based on some of the threads here, it has been somewhat of a disappointment

5 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

No idea though whom they could have ysed to stand in for Jeyne Pool, though... She was already adapted out, so they couldn't even have reintroduced her with a "previously on" segment.

They could have simply introduced her as being the daughter of the steward who went to KL and was a loose end after the purge.  Brienne and Podrick could have taken over for Mance.  What to do with Sansa is still a problem, but s 5 was even worse than the books in her case.

[kalle]

First season was really good as a tv adaptation, since then it has been downhill however, i get that they need to do some things for tv that is not in the books and streamlinestorylines otherwise it would drag on forever. I get that every cool thing said in the books cant be done on the show, it more about the butchery of characters that they do feature and the storyline they do choose to build upon is so amazingly strange and bad compared to the books that you cant help yourself to feel cheated. Season one didnt feature to many characters in the books and was fairly easy to adapt to the screen from the original source, hence good, as soon as the D&D got to choose directions of characters they choose bad, and not just bad i mean illogical, nonsesical, monumental, gigantical bad. You may say , "but creeper why do you eh Watch it then awful human being?"

well, if you love the books and you see some resemblance of it alive Before your Eyes you wanna follow it to the end knowingly that this awful, awful adaptation might realisticly be all that you are left with. The characters are changed, the storylines are changed but the end goal is still there, to see how it ends for the story and the characters you love.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

On May 25, 2016 at 3:02 AM, JonSnowed said:

I am absolutely loving Season 6, it's fast paced we are getting answers to stuff the books have left us waiting years for.  Season 5 was not as good as the other seasons but then AFFC/ADWD were by far the weakest books of the series and in some areas the show improved on them.

I wish I could even find one area they improved on AFFC/ ADWD 

the pacing? 

[Orphalesion]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

the pacing? 

The pacing in the sense that stuff happens faster, but it still can be a bit choppy/too fast and then we have periods of time where we waste space with pointless stuff like Tyrion's "drinking game" talk with Missandei and Gerywom.

I'd say they improved over Mereen, they at least made it less repetitive and drawn out. 

They also cut Stannis' storyline short, definitely a plus in my book, the less I see of that hypocrite the better.

[Boris the Blade]

The quality has definitely gone down since season 4. 

[John Doe]

5 hours ago, Desert Fox said:

People have been really enjoying this season so far. It's off to a way better start than S2 and 3, and arguably 1 and 4 too.

Maybe the show fucks up the back 5 episodes, but I'd argue the first 5 of S6 are better than the first 5 of S2-4.

Plus there is no such thing as a faithful S6 adaptation. There is no book.

The of course the bridge there because season 5 was as unfaithful as possible. 

[Dragon in the North]

1 hour ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

I wish I could even find one area they improved on AFFC/ ADWD 

the pacing? 

Cutting the travelogues was an improvement, imo.

[Greg B]

5 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

I wish I could even find one area they improved on AFFC/ ADWD 

the pacing? 

Yeah, like they're actually driving the central narrative forward. To do so, they have to sacrifice stellar storytelling such as Quentyn Martell's and (wtf)Aegon's story arcs.

[Good Guy Garlan]

4 hours ago, Dragon in the North said:

Cutting the travelogues was an improvement, imo.

Absolutely. I love how Sam is about to arrive at the Reach, and how they cut Tyrion's chapters in that fucking ship with the pig shitting all over the place and Penny being Penny. It's a shame we're still stuck in Meereen, though. I also hope Brienne's Riverlands adventure gets properly streamlined. 

[Winter's Cold]

14 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Absolutely. I love how Sam is about to arrive at the Reach, and how they cut Tyrion's chapters in that fucking ship with the pig shitting all over the place and Penny being Penny. It's a shame we're still stuck in Meereen, though. I also hope Brienne's Riverlands adventure gets properly streamlined. 

This season should herald the end of the Essosi plotlines. Arya will abandon the Faceless Men and head back to the Riverlands while Theon and Yara bring Tyrion and Dany to Westeros. 

[Greg B]

23 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Absolutely. I love how Sam is about to arrive at the Reach, and how they cut Tyrion's chapters in that fucking ship with the pig shitting all over the place and Penny being Penny. It's a shame we're still stuck in Meereen, though. I also hope Brienne's Riverlands adventure gets properly streamlined. 

Agree with this, though even Meereen is less unbearable in the show -- at least this season. And even last season, at least it didn't bogart as much of the story. This season, I've enjoyed Tyrion freeing the dragons (not that they've made an appearance, but it was still a cool scene), negotiating with the slavers in such a sensible way it almost seems out of place, bringing in the Red Priests to give the masses some opium religion. Just in general, things are actually happening in Essos that are closing threads that have (long ago) run their course and pushing things forward in interesting ways. Like, there's actually some narrative momentum. No one could have predicted this feature might actually improve a story...

[Lord_Ravenstone]

1 hour ago, Greg B said:

Yeah, like they're actually driving the central narrative forward. To do so, they have to sacrifice stellar storytelling such as Quentyn Martell's and (wtf)Aegon's story arcs.

I mean I know you're being sarcastic but they are definitely sacrificing good story telling to move the narrative forward ( and they're not doing a good job at that anyways)

I mean in ASOIAF the characters drive the plot 

In GOT the plot drives the characters so characters end up acting like whatever the plot wants them to do which makes their actions feel unnatural 

[House Cambodia]

1 minute ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

I mean in ASOIAF the characters drive the plot 

In GOT the plot drives the characters so characters end up acting like whatever the plot wants them to do which makes their actions feel unnatural 

Very true, but you've neatly encapsulated the core difference between the written and the visual medium. TV/film can never supercede books.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

51 minutes ago, Greg B said:

Agree with this, though even Meereen is less unbearable in the show -- at least this season. And even last season, at least it didn't bogart as much of the story. This season, I've enjoyed Tyrion freeing the dragons (not that they've made an appearance, but it was still a cool scene), negotiating with the slavers in such a sensible way it almost seems out of place, bringing in the Red Priests to give the masses some opium religion. Just in general, things are actually happening in Essos that are closing threads that have (long ago) run their course and pushing things forward in interesting ways. Like, there's actually some narrative momentum. No one could have predicted this feature might actually improve a story...

Tyrion's negotiations with the slavers in the show is based off of the Reconstruction and those methods didn't work 

Bringing in the Red Priests is a parallel to what Cerseindid with the Faith not exactly a good role model 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

1 hour ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Absolutely. I love how Sam is about to arrive at the Reach, and how they cut Tyrion's chapters in that fucking ship with the pig shitting all over the place and Penny being Penny. It's a shame we're still stuck in Meereen, though. I also hope Brienne's Riverlands adventure gets properly streamlined. 

What's wrong with Penny? 

Although I agree I wasn't a fan of Sam's travelogues