Why didn't Tyrion send the Antler Men to the Wall?

[Oakhearts head]

As we know, The Wall is grossly undermanned and although Tyrion didn't immediately jump on the "The Others are coming back!" Bandwagon when Jeor Mormont and Maester Aemon pleaded for more men and supplies, he did at least seem sympathetic to their cause.

The Antler Men were apparently all high born merchants and traiders who attempted to help Stannis take Kings Landing. Apparently there were several hundred of them, one of whom was Salloreon, a master armorer. Those are exactly the kind of men the Nights Watch are in need of. If it were practical to ship that many people to the Wall, why not do it? 

I was also kind of surprised Tyrion allowed Joffrey to nail actual antlers to their heads, but I did watch the show before reading the books.

[Sensenmenn]

He let Joffrey do that so he would be preoccupied with something other than fucking up the defense of the city.

[James Steller]

21 minutes ago, Sensenmenn said:

He let Joffrey do that so he would be preoccupied with something other than fucking up the defense of the city.

Agreed, Tyrion wanted to keep Joffrey preoccupied.

[House Beaudreau]

1 hour ago, Oakhearts head said:

As we know, The Wall is grossly undermanned and although Tyrion didn't immediately jump on the "The Others are coming back!" Bandwagon when Jeor Mormont and Maester Aemon pleaded for more men and supplies, he did at least seem sympathetic to their cause.

The Antler Men were apparently all high born merchants and traiders who attempted to help Stannis take Kings Landing. Apparently there were several hundred of them, one of whom was Sallorean, a Master Amourer. Those are exactly the kind of men the Nights Watch are in need of. If it were practical to ship that many people to the Wall, why not do it? 

I was also kind of surprised Tyrion allowed Joffrey to nail actual antlers to their heads, but I did watch the show before reading the books.

I think people are right when they say Tyrion wanted to keep Joffery occupied so that he didnt screw things up. 

But also I think one of the flaws that make Tyrion so great is that he is so intelligent that he is constantly analyzing the present and future events, this distracts him things that aren't directly threating his life at the moment. He hardly ever reflects on the dyer need of the nights watch after he visits. Which is understandable considering the shit storm that he is thrown into after leaving the wall. 

[Boarsbane]

How would it be practical to ship hundreds of men to the Wall? You're about to come under attack by Stannis, do you want to waste ships and men to escort a bunch of traitors to the Wall when you're already heavily outnumbered.

[Seams]

8 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

I think people are right when they say Tyrion wanted to keep Joffrey occupied so that he didn't screw things up. 

But also I think one of the flaws that make Tyrion so great is that he is so intelligent that he is constantly analyzing the present and future events, this distracts him things that aren't directly threatening his life at the moment. He hardly ever reflects on the dire need of the nights watch after he visits. Which is understandable considering the shit storm that he is thrown into after leaving the wall. 

Yes.

4 hours ago, Boarsbane said:

How would it be practical to ship hundreds of men to the Wall? You're about to come under attack by Stannis, do you want to waste ships and men to escort a bunch of traitors to the Wall when you're already heavily outnumbered.

^ This too.

Also, these men were accused of treason at a moment of direct attack during war. Cersei had already executed a couple of people who were guilty of trying to escape the city, implying they were the first of an expected stream of people who would attempt this and that the punishment had to be swift and severe. It was important to make it clear to other offenders nearby that there would be no mercy for this kind of crime, no chance to live out your life at the Wall. This message needs to go to Stannis as well as people within the walls of King's Landing.

There is a series of symbols I haven't fully analyzed yet about people scaling walls (Barriston Selmy at Duskendale, Thoros of Myr in the Iron Islands) and people falling off walls. (Tyrion somersaulting off a wall when he meets Jon Snow at Winterfell, one of the deaths Jaqen H'ghar "gives" Arya, one of the deaths at Winterfell after Ramsay's wedding. Do the stone men in Essos jump off of walls when they attack the Shy Maid on which Tyrion is a passenger?) I think the throwing of the Antler Men over the wall of King's Landing may be part of this wall invasion vs. death motif.

The treatment of the Antler Men also fits into a set of symbols involving Lannister arms as weapons. It also represents Joffrey losing his combat "virginity" in a uniquely Lannister way - using trebuchets nicknamed "The Whores" instead of a sword. If the linked post is too long for you, here is the bit that directly discusses Joffrey's use of the trebuchets to launch the Antler Men over the walls:

Quote

So the only practical weapon use of Joff’s short life involves the use of a disembodied throwing arm in the form of a trebuchet. The Lannister arm strikes again. There is also personification at work here again, with the weapons given a pejorative nickname constantly used for the sex workers found throughout the Seven Kingdoms and Essos. The ammunition for the weapons is also small folk, as Joffrey has executed a group of merchants known as the Antler Men who had conspired to support Stannis Baratheon instead of remaining loyal to Joffrey. But how useful is it to hurl human bodies at the enemy? Tyrion treats Joffrey’s turn as a battle commander as an unimportant interlude before the trebuchets are needed again for real combat operations.

There is wordplay throughout the books around whores and horses, and I suspect that the author has set up here the opposite of a Trojan horse scenario: instead of an effective invasion of Troy with live soldiers inside of a wooden horse, Joffrey is so inept that he has loaded dead bodies into “whores” and thrown them outside the city. The kid just doesn’t “get” how to conduct a war. (In fact, with the Antler Men as ammunition, is there an allusion here to the Monty Python and the Holy Grail scene in which the absurd French defenders hurl farm animals over the castle walls at the absurd English attackers?)

I didn't discuss it in the post about Lannisters arms personifying weapons, but I suspect that the flying antler men tie into the winged wolf symbolism embodied by Bran (who is pushed off a wall by a Lannister arm). There are several references to Lannisters wanting animal skins - Cersei wants the direwolf pelt laid across her bed; Joffrey has Tommen's pet fawn killed and the skin made into a vest - that symbolize their desire to be skin changers but their failure to achieve the real transformation that a skin changer can experience. Cersei wants to be Lyanna, who was (apparently) loved by both Rhaegar and Robert Baratheon; Joffrey wants to be Robert's son (he believes he is Robert's son, so the deer skin probably represents a subconscious wish). Joffrey's treatment of the Antler Men could be a complex symbol where he is emulating his real father, Jaime, who pushed Bran off the wall, helping to make him the winged wolf. At the same time, Joffrey is creating "skin-changing" deer by nailing antlers to the heads of Baratheon supporters. Robert was famous for his antlered helmet. Using "Antler Men" as weapons could be Joffrey's clumsy attempt to emulate both the man he believes to be his father and the man who is really his father.

So, to answer the OP, Tyrion had to let this happen because of the important symbolism around Joffrey losing his combat virginity in a way that shows how futile his existence really is.

I know a lot of people in this forum don't like to invest the time and effort it takes to understand the symbolism, so I apologize if this is tmi.

[Lost Umber]

Tyrion knew full well that there was no way for those catapults to send the antler all the way to the wall.

There were big.. . but not that big.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

I think he should have shipped them, why not after all? He could have held them in the dungeons or something until after the defense of the city was over. Although Tywin would have probably killed them after he took over as Hand unless Tyrion promised them to the Watch or something. 

[CJ McLannister]

Weren't they all merchants?  Would they really be any more than arrow fodder (or trebuchet ammo) at the wall?  Say what you will about murderers, they're useful in a fight.  The Wall doesn't need more Sams and Bowen Marshes.

[James Steller]

9 minutes ago, CJ McLannister said:

Weren't they all merchants?  Would they really be any more than arrow fodder (or trebuchet ammo) at the wall?  Say what you will about murderers, they're useful in a fight.  The Wall doesn't need more Sams and Bowen Marshes.

Maybe not, but they could use a skilled armourer like Salloreon.

[Sullen]

They're accused of treason, a most hateful crime.

Letting Joff deal with them calms him for a bit, he might even be somewhat grateful for his uncle allowing him to do that, even if temporarily.

It demoralizes Stannis's troops.

I also highly doubt that Tyrion had the Wall on his mind at the time, his life was in peril after all, and he would have been focused on the moment rather than on what the Wall might be going through.

[Rob Storm]

2 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I think he should have shipped them, why not after all? He could have held them in the dungeons or something until after the defense of the city was over. Although Tywin would have probably killed them after he took over as Hand unless Tyrion promised them to the Watch or something. 

Not sure how likely this would be but it probably wouldn't be the best idea to put hundreds of Stannis loyalists on a ship or two...Mutiny and escape on the sea potentially gives stannis more ships and more men. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

2 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I think he should have shipped them, why not after all? He could have held them in the dungeons or something until after the defense of the city was over. Although Tywin would have probably killed them after he took over as Hand unless Tyrion promised them to the Watch or something. 

Important to remember the city was starving, already got the High Septon killed because people wanted food.

[CJ McLannister]

6 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Important to remember the city was starving, already got the High Septon killed because people wanted food.

So he should have sold them as meat.  Solve two problems at once.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

On May 25, 2016 at 4:20 AM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Important to remember the city was starving, already got the High Septon killed because people wanted food.

there are rats in the dungeons, they could survive perhaps like theon

[erra]

If there were several hundreds of them, Tyrion should have kept most of them to distract Joffrey, and sent a handful, or maybe a few handfuls of the "best of them" to the wall. 

But he is also surrounded by war, and distracted by it. 

[Trigger Warning]

Not exactly practical to send a group of traitors to the wall with an escort whilst preparing for a siege.

Not to mention making an example of them.

[House Cambodia]

On 25/05/2016 at 6:29 PM, Seams said:

Yes.

^ This too.

Also, these men were accused of treason at a moment of direct attack during war. Cersei had already executed a couple of people who were guilty of trying to escape the city, implying they were the first of an expected stream of people who would attempt this and that the punishment had to be swift and severe. It was important to make it clear to other offenders nearby that there would be no mercy for this kind of crime, no chance to live out your life at the Wall. This message needs to go to Stannis as well as people within the walls of King's Landing.

There is a series of symbols I haven't fully analyzed yet about people scaling walls (Barriston Selmy at Duskendale, Thoros of Myr in the Iron Islands) and people falling off walls. (Tyrion somersaulting off a wall when he meets Jon Snow at Winterfell, one of the deaths Jaqen H'ghar "gives" Arya, one of the deaths at Winterfell after Ramsay's wedding. Do the stone men in Essos jump off of walls when they attack the Shy Maid on which Tyrion is a passenger?) I think the throwing of the Antler Men over the wall of King's Landing may be part of this wall invasion vs. death motif.

The treatment of the Antler Men also fits into a set of symbols involving Lannister arms as weapons. It also represents Joffrey losing his combat "virginity" in a uniquely Lannister way - using trebuchets nicknamed "The Whores" instead of a sword. If the linked post is too long for you, here is the bit that directly discusses Joffrey's use of the trebuchets to launch the Antler Men over the walls:

I didn't discuss it in the post about Lannisters arms personifying weapons, but I suspect that the flying antler men tie into the winged wolf symbolism embodied by Bran (who is pushed off a wall by a Lannister arm). There are several references to Lannisters wanting animal skins - Cersei wants the direwolf pelt laid across her bed; Joffrey has Tommen's pet fawn killed and the skin made into a vest - that symbolize their desire to be skin changers but their failure to achieve the real transformation that a skin changer can experience. Cersei wants to be Lyanna, who was (apparently) loved by both Rhaegar and Robert Baratheon; Joffrey wants to be Robert's son (he believes he is Robert's son, so the deer skin probably represents a subconscious wish). Joffrey's treatment of the Antler Men could be a complex symbol where he is emulating his real father, Jaime, who pushed Bran off the wall, helping to make him the winged wolf. At the same time, Joffrey is creating "skin-changing" deer by nailing antlers to the heads of Baratheon supporters. Robert was famous for his antlered helmet. Using "Antler Men" as weapons could be Joffrey's clumsy attempt to emulate both the man he believes to be his father and the man who is really his father.

So, to answer the OP, Tyrion had to let this happen because of the important symbolism around Joffrey losing his combat virginity in a way that shows how futile his existence really is.

I know a lot of people in this forum don't like to invest the time and effort it takes to understand the symbolism, so I apologize if this is tmi.

That's really great analysis. You've added  a new dimension to my appreciation of the story.