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who planned the Riot in Kings Landing?


House Beaudreau

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I have search on here for this topic and haven't found any in depth discussions about it. I think everyone assumes that it was Varys but how does it benefit him? Some pretty interesting things go down which makes me think that it wasn't random at all. So let solve this mystery.

Suspects that come to mind are Varys or Littlefinger. Or are they working together on this one?  

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6 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Varys. For once Petyr isn't involved in ruining Tyrions life. That's the reason, to kidnap a Lannister claimant and steal Tyrions birthright. I'm not really sure how it benefits Varys.

Getting a Lannister out of the way -- but can't the Lannisters still claim his baby bride's lands? 

I think just more sowing discord - the whole mess could/would be blamed on the Lannisters.  Varys and Illyrio were muttering about that when overheard by Arya.

 

 

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No reason to think it was planned. I think GRRM just wanted to have a riot. It works well for the Sansa-Sandor interaction and the Tyrion-Joff interaction. It is no more extra-ordinary that Cat and Tyrion showing up at the Inn at the same time.

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2 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

I have search on here for this topic and haven't found any in depth discussions about it. I think everyone assumes that it was Varys but how does it benefit him? Some pretty interesting things go down which makes me think that it wasn't random at all. So let solve this mystery.

Suspects that come to mind are Varys or Littlefinger. Or are they working together on this one?  

Nobody planned it. It was a riot. A mob and while a person can try to instigate it, the mob will do as the mob will do. People were hungry and scared. They saw the royal family move through the city and gathered. even if Varys or Littlefinger paid someone to throw the cow pie, it was Joff's reaction and him ordering the kingsguard to kill the person responsible that lead to the riot. 

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I don't think there's any mystery to it.

To me the significance of the riots was to show the common folk weren't just pawns to be manipulated.  The riot wasn't controlled by a player in "the game of thrones", it was a result of the manipulation by all the players of the game of thrones (specifically war of the five kings). My point is I think George put it in there to show it isn't a game of chess where players can fully control what pieces go where, it's "real" life and no matter how much control nobles think they have, they can't fully control people. So to say it's been planned, and it's another conspiracy, falls into the notion that nobles do have full control over common folk, and takes away, what I think, the point of the riot was.

If that makes any sense.

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3 hours ago, sagewich said:

Getting a Lannister out of the way -- but can't the Lannisters still claim his baby bride's lands? 

I think just more sowing discord - the whole mess could/would be blamed on the Lannisters.  Varys and Illyrio were muttering about that when overheard by Arya.

 

The Lannisters can only claim The North through Tyrions Marriage, Tyrek has claim to the West through his Grandfather, Tywins dad.

Sowing discards good, but what did the riot accomplish short of Tyreks abduction, Preston Greenfields death?

Varys wants the kid to challenge Tywins heir's claims, Its probably Aegon related, I doubt its to cut out his throat, or his tounge.

3 hours ago, Ser Leftwich said:

No reason to think it was planned. I think GRRM just wanted to have a riot. It works well for the Sansa-Sandor interaction and the Tyrion-Joff interaction. It is no more extra-ordinary that Cat and Tyrion showing up at the Inn at the same time.

Varys didn't warn them. Varys knows everything and he wasn't there to see Myrcella off.

Wait, are you alluding that Yoren worked for Petyr? Interesting....

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I don't think the riot during Myrcella's Bon Voyage was planned, although it certainly was expected.  However, what I do think is LF engineered the smaller riot that led to Joffrey leading a sortie to quell the rabble - on the same night Sansa first met Dontos in the Godswood.

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27 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

The Lannisters can only claim The North through Tyrions Marriage, Tyrek has claim to the West through his Grandfather, Tywins dad.

Sowing discards good, but what did the riot accomplish short of Tyreks abduction, Preston Greenfields death?

Varys wants the kid to challenge Tywins heir's claims, Its probably Aegon related, I doubt its to cut out his throat, or his tounge.

Varys didn't warn them. Varys knows everything and he wasn't there to see Myrcella off.

Wait, are you alluding that Yoren worked for Petyr? Interesting....

a number of things, like the dire wolves south of the wall, the riots in KL ect are not planned events. they are happenstance that ads to the plot. Varys is a smart man. He didn't attend the kings retinue because he has ears in the commoners and they are starving, angry and scared. No one would protect varys. No KG, no Lannister troops no nothing. So he stayed away. To assume that everything is planned in the books means you might as well assume Bloodraven does everything out of boredom. Then the story is really boring. But to have random happenstance force a character to adapt and change his or her plan forces the plot to get interesting. Littlefinger going to treat with the Tyrells, arranging the marriage to Joff, and then killing the king gave him his window to get take Sansa away from the capital. and Yoren never worked for Littlefinger. He was loyal to the watch and because of that he is willing to do things for Lord Stark, the watch's biggest supporter. Like rescuing his daughter and taking Bob's bastard to the wall. 

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46 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

The Lannisters can only claim The North through Tyrions Marriage, Tyrek has claim to the West through his Grandfather, Tywins dad.

Sowing discards good, but what did the riot accomplish short of Tyreks abduction, Preston Greenfields death?

Varys wants the kid to challenge Tywins heir's claims, Its probably Aegon related, I doubt its to cut out his throat, or his tounge.

Varys didn't warn them. Varys knows everything and he wasn't there to see Myrcella off.

Wait, are you alluding that Yoren worked for Petyr? Interesting....

See this is what I like about posting topics that have bugged me for years... I never even considered Tyrek Lannister as big of importance as he is. 

I can't believe that the Riot happened at random. Too many important people were killed.  

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If the Riot was truly Random and simply just the smallfolks rebelling because they were hungry, then why did the men trying to rape and hurt sansa have garlic on their breath. 

YES i know if sooooo subtle and maybe reaching but GRRM doesn't just do things for no reason. 

4 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Nobody planned it. It was a riot. A mob and while a person can try to instigate it, the mob will do as the mob will do. People were hungry and scared. They saw the royal family move through the city and gathered. even if Varys or Littlefinger paid someone to throw the cow pie, it was Joff's reaction and him ordering the kingsguard to kill the person responsible that lead to the riot. 

 

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3 hours ago, Nights Kings Queen said:

I don't think there's any mystery to it.

To me the significance of the riots was to show the common folk weren't just pawns to be manipulated.  The riot wasn't controlled by a player in "the game of thrones", it was a result of the manipulation by all the players of the game of thrones (specifically war of the five kings). My point is I think George put it in there to show it isn't a game of chess where players can fully control what pieces go where, it's "real" life and no matter how much control nobles think they have, they can't fully control people. So to say it's been planned, and it's another conspiracy, falls into the notion that nobles do have full control over common folk, and takes away, what I think, the point of the riot was.

If that makes any sense.

Nothing about it seems like it just happened. Why did they wait until Mrycella was gone? if the small folk were so upset, surely the Royal party would have more of a private send off for her. 

And look at all the people that died/went missing or got raped in the riot. Many of them had key roles or power in the story.

Aron Santigar master of Arms in the Red Keep. From Dorne and the only person that would know Littlefinger lied about the Dagger that was used to try and kill Bran. 

The High Septon... Tyrion makes a comment about fat priests and Hungry smallfolks as the reason he was killed but that never made sense to me, these smallfolk are the very people that become the sparrows in the future which means they are very Religious and I really don't think they would kill the High septon. We never hear of other septons being killed in King's Landing or Silent sister or septa. All of that is going on in the riverlands. Littlefinger does mention that the Fat High septon is hard to work with. Jamie calls him corrupt. 

Ser Preston Greenfield... I don't know who would want him dead, but he is replaced by Ser Balon Swann. Balon Swann was being considered to being married to Lollys Stokeworth before he is named to the Kings Guard. The Kings Guard can never marry. 

Lollys Stokeworth is rape and impregnated with a bastard. It is clear that the stokeworth's are trying to find a marriage for her. Littlefinger is someone they have been considering but also Tyrion and Balon Swann. By raping Lollys it makes it harder for Lollys to be married. Balon Swann seems like the only taker because he is very dutiful but be named to the Kings Guard takes care of that. 

Tyrek Lannister goes missing. He has the Same Grandfather as Cersi and jamie, which means with some Carefully placed deaths Tyrek could be the heir to the West at some point. We know that Littlefinger loves to collect wards. A Lannister ward especially one that could be the heir to Casterly Rock someday would never be given to Littlefinger no matter how much he tried. He has Sansa, Sweet Robin, Harry the Heir. 

A goldsmith is also killed and his mansion is burned down. Littlefinger would know every goldsmith in kings landing as the master of coin. he basically know anyone important anyway. 

You'll notice that Littlefinger at the very least has a connection to the key events in the riot, he could also benefit from all the events. Sansa is that one little hiccup. but after all she does get saved.    

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18 minutes ago, House Beaudreau said:

 

You'll notice that Littlefinger at the very least has a connection to the key events in the riot, he could also benefit from all the events. Sansa is that one little hiccup. but after all she does get saved.    

Along those lines...Littlefinger taking drastic steps to move up in the Game...what if Sansa in the riot had been part of his plans and her being attacked is what would potentially lead Joff to look for a different bride and make Sansa available to Littlefinger? 

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6 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Varys. For once Petyr isn't involved in ruining Tyrions life. That's the reason, to kidnap a Lannister claimant and steal Tyrions birthright. I'm not really sure how it benefits Varys.

At that time Tyrion didn't have a rift with the rest of the House and so could be counted as a defender of Joffrey's regime. It was only much later that Tyrion was cast out of the Lannister fold and could be recruited by Varys.

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1 hour ago, House Beaudreau said:

See this is what I like about posting topics that have bugged me for years... I never even considered Tyrek Lannister as big of importance as he is. 

I can't believe that the Riot happened at random. Too many important people were killed.  

So the dance of the dragons riot was totally engineered then as well lol?

 

It was a riot. Shit happens.

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The riot started after Joffrey acted like an ass. Before that, King's Landing was already suffering from his bad decisions, so it was just a matter of time.

-A woman stepped in front of Joffrey's horse with her dead baby. Joffrey didn't look like he was going to stop until Sansa adviced him to give her money. Joffrey threw the money at her, but a few men fought for it.

-Cersei told Joffrey to carry on. The woman got madder at her and started to call her "Whore!" and "Brotherfucker", kinda implying that people was rather mad at the Lannisters (not at Joffrey. IICR, someone told Tyrion the people knew he was a kid, and all the bad decisions were caused by the Council).

-Someone threw shit at Joffrey. He offered 100 Golden Dragons for the person's head. He ordered the Hound to bring the men, who was allegedly on the roofs.

- Joffrey then ordered him to actually open his way with his sword. People freaked out and started to yell "Monsters" and "Bastard" at Joffrey. And then, they started to ask for food, justice, Stannis, Robb, more insults, yadayadayada. The people with Joffrey, and Joffrey himself, had to escape through the mob, who killed at least three people, IICR.

There were too many factors for such as specific goal. Even if Varys planned the whole thing, there is no way he could have made sure that he would get Tyrek, dead or alive. He could have gotten killed even the King himself there. :dunno:

 

 

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4 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

If the Riot was truly Random and simply just the smallfolks rebelling because they were hungry, then why did the men trying to rape and hurt sansa have garlic on their breath. 

Yes, this garlic in breath line is really telling ... Why not onion in breath? 

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4 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

a number of things, like the dire wolves south of the wall, the riots in KL ect are not planned events. they are happenstance that ads to the plot. Varys is a smart man. He didn't attend the kings retinue because he has ears in the commoners and they are starving, angry and scared. No one would protect varys. No KG, no Lannister troops no nothing. So he stayed away. To assume that everything is planned in the books means you might as well assume Bloodraven does everything out of boredom. Then the story is really boring. But to have random happenstance force a character to adapt and change his or her plan forces the plot to get interesting. Littlefinger going to treat with the Tyrells, arranging the marriage to Joff, and then killing the king gave him his window to get take Sansa away from the capital. and Yoren never worked for Littlefinger. He was loyal to the watch and because of that he is willing to do things for Lord Stark, the watch's biggest supporter. Like rescuing his daughter and taking Bob's bastard to the wall. 

Varys stayed away because he knew there would be a riot? Then why not inform the Council? Like his job dictates. 

Most things in the books aren't coincidences.

4 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

See this is what I like about posting topics that have bugged me for years... I never even considered Tyrek Lannister as big of importance as he is. 

I can't believe that the Riot happened at random. Too many important people were killed.  

I don't think he's important either, but I guess Varys does.

Word, riot ain't random.

2 hours ago, LionoftheWest said:

At that time Tyrion didn't have a rift with the rest of the House and so could be counted as a defender of Joffrey's regime. It was only much later that Tyrion was cast out of the Lannister fold and could be recruited by Varys.

Tyrion has not been recruited by Varys. 

 

53 minutes ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

The riot started after Joffrey acted like an ass. Before that, King's Landing was already suffering from his bad decisions, so it was just a matter of time.

-A woman stepped in front of Joffrey's horse with her dead baby. Joffrey didn't look like he was going to stop until Sansa adviced him to give her money. Joffrey threw the money at her, but a few men fought for it.

-Cersei told Joffrey to carry on. The woman got madder at her and started to call her "Whore!" and "Brotherfucker", kinda implying that people was rather mad at the Lannisters (not at Joffrey. IICR, someone told Tyrion the people knew he was a kid, and all the bad decisions were caused by the Council).

-Someone threw shit at Joffrey. He offered 100 Golden Dragons for the person's head. He ordered the Hound to bring the men, who was allegedly on the roofs.

- Joffrey then ordered him to actually open his way with his sword. People freaked out and started to yell "Monsters" and "Bastard" at Joffrey. And then, they started to ask for food, justice, Stannis, Robb, more insults, yadayadayada. The people with Joffrey, and Joffrey himself, had to escape through the mob, who killed at least three people, IICR.

There were too many factors for such as specific goal. Even if Varys planned the whole thing, there is no way he could have made sure that he would get Tyrek, dead or alive. He could have gotten killed even the King himself there. :dunno:

 

 

The king was surrounded by KG, also I don't think Joffreys life holds much value to Varys.

Its true that its dangerous, but Varys spends lots of time in neighborhoods trying to get Tyrion some action. I think its probable that Varys was in disguise as a smallfolk. Also Tyrion wonders if Jacelyn Bywater is Varys' pawn, if so some gold cloaks were in on it, along with Varys' agents.

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