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Aerys I-gay or just weird?


Valens

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We know so little about this king. Most of what we know is, he was interested in the arcane matters and wasn't much of a king. Or to put it another way-he let BR rule for him, which perhaps wasn't so dumb. Did he do this because he just wanted to be left in peace with his mystery scrolls? I think so. But the most puzzling thing is that he didn't, according to rumours, consumate his marriage. He also refused to have another wife, which is also suspicious. Was he gay or simply not interested in women? Or was his studying of ancient scrolls so time-consuming that he simply had no "time" for women?

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30 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

How does anyone jump to the conclusion that Aerys was gay?

For the reasons stated above. He never consumated his marriage, or at least that is hinted at.

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My guess was that Aerys I was asexual. If he'd been homosexual, in his position of power he would have indulged in his preferences and there would likely have been rumors of it in court, as with Laenor Velaryon. 

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1 hour ago, alguien said:

My guess was that Aerys I was asexual. If he'd been homosexual, in his position of power he would have indulged in his preferences and there would likely have been rumors of it in court, as with Laenor Velaryon. 

Yeah, I've always thought of Aerys shunning of Aelinor in the marriage bed more as reflecting asexuality than preferring the other sex.  In that regard, he seems closer to Stannis than the clear (or even explicit) hints for Renly/Loras, Laenor, and even Connington.

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There were some "rumours" that he never consummated the marriage, but there wasn't actually a proof, IICR.

There are people who aren't just that much interested on sex, without being actually asexual. Not everything fits in a label. Maybe Aerys didn't really like sex that much or that often. Even healthy couples try for years to have children without actually getting pregnant, so it could be that he had some infrequent sex with his wife that produced no kids, so people was like "oh, he's not bedding her at all".

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Rumors have it that Aelinor Penrose really was desperate in the beginning of her husband's reign. I mean she went to the sept and prayed for a child instead of approaching her husband about the whole thing.

Common sense dictates that Prince Aerys was married to his cousin Aelinor Penrose about the same time as Baelor and Maekar married their wives - which means that he and Aelinor married early on in Daeron II's reign and were married for nearly two decades in 209 AC.

Daeron II and Mariah most likely wouldn't have forced Aerys into a marriage nor would they have married him to a woman later in life because Daeron II pretty quickly got a string of grandsons and even reached the decision that there were too many Targaryen princes a few years before THK because he sent Prince Aemon to the Citadel.

Therefore Daeron II would most likely not have wanted his second son to also give him grandchildren, too, and had he known his son's sexual preferences when he made the betrothals for his sons he most likely wouldn't have chosen a bride for Aerys.

He most likely wouldn't have done so late in his life because Aerys was never supposed to inherit the throne. It would go to Baelor and then to Valarr and his children or to Matarys.

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There's no textual evidence one way or the other whether his marriage was arranged, [edited] though it was said that:

Quote

Aerys would sooner bring a book to his bed rather than his wife

and there were rumors he never even consumated it. 

As WoIaF shows, marriages with the royal family without sex or need for heirs were often made to strengthen alliances, which I suspect, given all that occurred during Daeron II's reign, could have been necessary. It also could be that Aerys married his wife for friendship. She didn't seem to be happy with the state of affairs, though, with her constant visits to the sept. When the council tried to get him to set her aside, hoping he would like another woman more since he refused her bed, Aerys defied them, which makes me think he either cared for her in a non-sexual way or didn't want to go through the whole thing again with another woman. 

It could be he didn't have much of a sex drive, or he could have been 100% asexual. I think either interpretation is fine. Probably when we meet him in another Dunk and Egg story is where we'll have a better picture of him. 

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His council was under the impression that he just didn't like her.  Maybe she was terrible.  Or ugly.  Maybe Aerys was straight but impotent.  Maybe he just thought girls were icky.  Maybe he thought Baelor the Blessed was on to something.  

While it's fun to ascribe sexual orientation to historic figures (real or imagined), we just don't have enough information.  

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I'm not sure whether we can be sure Aerys was asexual but it is clear that he was very obsessed with arcane matter like magic, prophecies, and ancient scrolls. These matters took over his entire life. The man didn't just not sleep with his wife he also didn't care all that much about the fact that he was king, presumably letting Bloodraven and other members of the royal family stepping in for him in every duty the kingship technically brought for him.

He would have stood up in the morning (or more likely around midday) and gone to his study/in the library to continue his scholarly works, reading, writing, translating, interpreting, etc. until he fell asleep again. The only people he would have spoken to were some servants bringing him something to eat and drink, and Bloodraven for some short audiences where Brynden tried to keep him apprised on what was going while Aerys I would constantly interrupting him apprising him on his current arcane studies.

 

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16 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I'm not sure whether we can be sure Aerys was asexual but it is clear that he was very obsessed with arcane matter like magic, prophecies, and ancient scrolls. These matters took over his entire life. The man didn't just not sleep with his wife he also didn't care all that much about the fact that he was king, presumably letting Bloodraven and other members of the royal family stepping in for him in every duty the kingship technically brought for him.

He would have stood up in the morning (or more likely around midday) and gone to his study/in the library to continue his scholarly works, reading, writing, translating, interpreting, etc. until he fell asleep again. The only people he would have spoken to were some servants bringing him something to eat and drink, and Bloodraven for some short audiences where Brynden tried to keep him apprised on what was going while Aerys I would constantly interrupting him apprising him on his current arcane studies.

 

Lord Varys

This is quite interesting. Is there a deliberate attempt at irony in this, from the author?

What I mean is, was it complete coincidence that this King was so obsessed with sorcery - something which almost the entire Westeros believes to be utter nonsense - to the extent that he gave over the running of his realm to the one man who in fact was the only legitimate sorceror with real powers approacing what the likes of Morgon Banefort and other legendary sorcerors of old used to have? Was this complete coincidence?

Or did Bloodraven actively encourage and feed this intense interest in the arcane that became Aerys's obsession?

If the two facts (Aerys's interest in sorcery and Blooraven's actual mastery of sorcery) are totally unrelated, the irony is immense.

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2 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Lord Varys

This is quite interesting. Is there a deliberate attempt at irony in this, from the author?

What I mean is, was it complete coincidence that this King was so obsessed with sorcery - something which almost the entire Westeros believes to be utter nonsense - to the extent that he gave over the running of his realm to the one man who in fact was the only legitimate sorceror with real powers approacing what the likes of Morgon Banefort and other legendary sorcerors of old used to have? Was this complete coincidence?

Or did Bloodraven actively encourage and feed this intense interest in the arcane that became Aerys's obsession?

If the two facts (Aerys interest in sorcery and Blooraven's actual mastery of sorcery) are totally unrelated, the irony is immense.

I'm actually not sure there is any irony to that at all.

Yandel suggests to us that Aerys I deliberately chose Bloodraven as his Hand because he was aware of his uncle's interests in the higher mysteries, and we also know that the new as of yet unnamed Grand Maester Septon Sefton mentioned in TSS was also very much interested in sorcery. With Shiera Seastar we have thus four powerful people at the king's court interested in magic.

Aerys interest in books, scrolls, magic also seemed to predate his rise to the Iron Throne (if we keep in mind Raymun Fossoway's comments in THK). And the really interesting thing there is that Yandel apparently downplays Aerys' education when mentioning his obsession with ancient prophecy stuff, suggesting that there might be aspects to all that a maester would be unwilling to repeat or cover in detail.

Perhaps it is more likely that Aerys I and Bloodraven had very learned and interesting conversation about actual magic in their conversations, and Aerys I might also have involved his Grand Maester and Shiera in all that.

I'd also be inclined to interpret Aerys I as an actual 'sorcerer king'. Perhaps with a little to great a focus on the theoretical aspects of the craft but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the man himself occasionally used a glamor like his Hand did. And who knows? Perhaps Bloodraven even learned stuff about magic and his own innate talents from his royal nephew? Nothing in TSS and TMK suggested that Brynden is yet aware of his skinchanger/greenseer abilities, not to mention that Bloodraven as a man who was doing the actual ruling during the reign of Aerys I and Maekar I should actually have had little time to hone his own magical talents and abilities. Granted, he clearly already could use glamors in TMK and possibly also during the First Blackfyre Rebellion, but that clearly does not cover the whole skinchanger aspect of the whole thing.

And we should also keep in mind that in Bloodraven's time it should have been pretty difficult to actually learn stuff about magic. Aerys I might not just have uncovered and translated ancient prophecies (some of which might actually turn out to be of great influence in the series, namely the prophecy about the promised prince Jaehaerys II and Rhaegar once read) but also certain treatises about other magical topics like skinchanging, greenseeing, and the Children of the Forest.

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I'm actually not sure there is any irony to that at all.

Yandel suggests to us that Aerys I deliberately chose Bloodraven as his Hand because he was aware of his uncle's interests in the higher mysteries, and we also know that the new as of yet unnamed Grand Maester Septon Sefton mentioned in TSS was also very much interested in sorcery. With Shiera Seastar we have thus four powerful people at the king's court interested in magic.

Aerys interest in books, scrolls, magic also seemed to predate his rise to the Iron Throne (if we keep in mind Raymun Fossoway's comments in THK). And the really interesting thing there is that Yandel apparently downplays Aerys' education when mentioning his obsession with ancient prophecy stuff, suggesting that there might be aspects to all that a maester would be unwilling to repeat or cover in detail.

Perhaps it is more likely that Aerys I and Bloodraven had very learned and interesting conversation about actual magic in their conversations, and Aerys I might also have involved his Grand Maester and Shiera in all that.

I'd also be inclined to interpret Aerys I as an actual 'sorcerer king'. Perhaps with a little to great a focus on the theoretical aspects of the craft but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the man himself occasionally used a glamor like his Hand did. And who knows? Perhaps Bloodraven even learned stuff about magic and his own innate talents from his royal nephew? Nothing in TSS and TMK suggested that Brynden is yet aware of his skinchanger/greenseer abilities, not to mention that Bloodraven as a man who was doing the actual ruling during the reign of Aerys I and Maekar I should actually have had little time to hone his own magical talents and abilities. Granted, he clearly already could use glamors in TMK and possibly also during the First Blackfyre Rebellion, but that clearly does not cover the whole skinchanger aspect of the whole thing.

And we should also keep in mind that in Bloodraven's time it should have been pretty difficult to actually learn stuff about magic. Aerys I might not just have uncovered and translated ancient prophecies (some of which might actually turn out to be of great influence in the series, namely the prophecy about the promised prince Jaehaerys II and Rhaegar once read) but also certain treatises about other magical topics like skinchanging, greenseeing, and the Children of the Forest.

I see.

I was under the impression that Bloodraven is the only bona fide person with real magical powers we have seen in Westeros, with all others being amateurs dabbling in stuff they have no clue about and repeatedly coming up with zero results. But going by what you are suggesting above, there are others who might have rivalled Bloodraven's knowledge of magic back in the day - at least, the knowledge that he had back then, before he joined the Children Beyond the Wall.

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3 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I see.

I was under the impression that Bloodraven is the only bona fide person with real magical powers we have seen in Westeros, with all others being amateurs dabbling in stuff they have no clue about and repeatedly coming up with zero results. But going by what you are suggesting above, there are others who might have rivalled Bloodraven's knowledge of magic back in the day - at least, the knowledge that he had back then, before he joined the Children Beyond the Wall.

Yeah, it seems to me that glamors are more something like a craft, not actual 'deep magic' (like the changing of faces the Faceless Men way), blood magic, fire magic, or whatever else is 'real' rather than an illusion.

In that sense, even Bloodraven himself might still have been somewhat of an amateur if it is correct that he wasn't yet aware of the skinchanger stuff.

But it is really difficult to say until we finally meet Aerys I himself and the members of his court in a more intimate way. I really want Egg to hang out with his royal uncle in at least one story. The boy is into books as well, so Egg clearly has a chance to become Aerys' favorite nephew. Aemon is not likely to spend much time at court in his youth.

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