Bloodraven- a vision/dream from his youth.

[Macgregor of the North]

A Bloodraven vision. 

A shortish version. 

BR has Targ and first men blood in him. Two bloodlines with history of magical abilities such as prophetic dreams/visions of the future etc. 

What if, in his youth BR had a vision/dream of the future that he didn't quite understand. A dream involving a young crippled child with great abilities(A Brandon Stark), a huge young man as his companion and helper(future Hodor), a cave beyond the wall where the CoTF dwell, and visions of his own future self, old and decrepit as a greenseer and the boys teacher. 

What if he put them to the back of his mind not quite comprehending what they meant yet, until one day he happened across Dunk.

THE SWORN SWORD:

"Six years ago in King's Landing, Dunk had seen him with his own two eyes, as he rode a pale horse up the Street of Steel with fifty Raven's Teeth behind him. That was before King Aerys had ascended to the Iron Throne and made him the Hand, but even so he cut a striking figure, garbed in smoke and scarlet with Dark Sister on his hip. His pallid skin and bone-white hair made him look a living corpse. Across his cheek and chin spread a wine-stain birthmark that was supposed to resemble a red raven, though Dunk only saw an odd-shaped blotch of discolored skin. He stared so hard that Bloodraven felt it. The king's sorcerer had turned to study him as he went by. He had one eye, and that one red. The other was an empty socket, the gift Bittersteel had given him upon the Redgrass Field. Yet it seemed to Dunk that both eyes had looked right through his skin, down to his very soul."

What if this passing meeting of minds stirred something in BR and set him to thinking of his dream/vision and his future again and how this huge young lad may play a part in it. 

Fast forward a few years. 

BR comes across Dunk again a couple times, he is even present as Maynard Plumm when Dunk is nearly killed. 

Then later.

The uprising of Dagon Greyjoy was stopped by Targaryen intervention. Is it possible BR rode North to stop this himself? I wonder if while North BR ever finds himself close to WF with Dunk and Egg since the Starks play a big part in the Greyjoy feud, and feels yet again more stirring feelings about a vision/dream he had in his youth. This time what if he happens across Nan, who is destined to become a wet nurse for a Brandon Stark, the same name of the young crippled boy he is to train one day. Also, what if BR witnesses a romantic connection between Nan and Dunk and finally figures out in his head what's to possibly happen. 

What if he thought at first that Dunk was the huge man, and maybe Nans Brandon was to be the young crippled boy. But then realised that maybe the Brandon is a future Stark not yet born and that the huge companion is a descendant from the Union of Dunk and this wet nurse. 

Fast forward a few years. 233AC.

Dunk had moved on with Egg to more adventures, he and Nan had a connection nothing more, and perhaps a farewell kiss by the heart tree in the WF godswood.
BR has been imprisoned for murder by the new King Egg. 
What if he has the same vision/dream again but clearer this time and sees more. That he must go to the Wall, and he talks with Egg. Maybe he mentions everything and Egg is on board with it completely, or maybe he just tells Egg he should send him to the Wall as a fitting punishment so his people love him better, or maybe both.
But what if he also tells him that he must send Dunk North with him on the ship. Because somehow Egg insists that Dunk must head North to accompany BR and Aemon to the wall. 

AFFC SAM II:

"Egg wanted me to help him rule, but I knew my place was here. He sent me north aboard the Golden Dragon, and insisted that his friend Ser Duncan see me safe to Eastwatch".

Is it possible BR is making certain Dunk heads North again to fulfill his part of BR's vision/dream of the future? What if Egg is on board and commands it of Dunk, or mentions to him that when he sees BR and Aemon safe to Eastwatch he must head south to WF to check on the Starks whom they helped a few years back before heading back to Kings Landing, and also he can check on his slender crush that he shared a kiss in front of the heart tree with.

So, is it possible that BR heads to the wall to see out the rest of his destiny, while Dunk heads to WF after the wall to see out the next part of his destiny that BR envisioned. To impregnate Nan and have a child that will go on to become future Brandon Starks big companions(Hodors) Grandfather. 

This child(could be son) would be born around 234-235AC. And this could work generation wise with this child being Hodors Grandfather. 

Example. Hodors father born 253AC? Hodor born 270-271AC?. 

Any of this possible? Or is there holes in it that make it impossible? Any thoughts?

Basically- BR has a dream/vision he will become the last greenseer north of the wall with the CoTF and he will train a crippled Brandon Stark with possibly greater abilities than him to replace himself, but this cripple must be carried North by a huge young man who will be his legs and companion/protector. 

Of course there is bonus info such as BR enlisting the help of Summer and the Reeds also but that would have made the theory a lot bigger so I focused on Dunk and his line. 

[CJ McLannister]

I think it's extremely likely that Bloodraven will continue to show up in any future Dunk & Egg tales, so... maybe?

[Macgregor of the North]

1 hour ago, CJ McLannister said:

I think it's extremely likely that Bloodraven will continue to show up in any future Dunk & Egg tales, so... maybe?

A maybe I hear? I actually expected a negative response to this theory, it reads quite crazy at times but honestly it's quite plausible when you think of it I suppose.

[Macgregor of the North]

Upon reading more notes, I remembered that Aegon V (Eggs) reign began halfway through a savage winter and he helped the Northerners out in that time which would include the Starks. This maybe helps with my idea that he sent Dunk to WF around 233AC to check on WF and it's inhabitants.

So another plus point for Dunk being there at that time.

[Little Scribe of Naath]

Macgregor,

I have two points against the theory:

 - GRRM's hammered it to readers many times about the unreliable nature of prophecy. We have Tyrion and Marwyn, two really smart men, tell us this in the series, and we have examples of characters getting prophecy wrong many times - Melisandre being the best example, and possibly Rhaegar as well. The cases where we have 100% accurate prophets (Jojen and Ghost of High Heart) the prophecies are so metaphorical that it's almost impossible for in-book characters to decipher them until they have actually come to pass. 

So Bloodraven interpreting a prophecy correctly is not unlikely, but doesn't seem to fit GRRM's style until now. He likes his prophecy notoriously unreliable. 

- The other thing here is, BR has to assume Dunk's kid with Nan - and all their future children - would stay at Winterfell, loyal to the Stark family. In one of Bran's chapters in AGOT, I think he tells us that all of Nan's family has left Winterfell, and only Hodor remained - somehow I don't know if BR could have assumed that all those years ago.

Note that I'm not ruling out the actual possibility of the vision itself occuring to BR - a cripple kid who's being carried by a huge man becoming his student, as Targs definitely seem to have the ability to receive prophetic dreams.

[Macgregor of the North]

32 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Macgregor,

I have two points against the theory:

 - GRRM's hammered it to readers many times about the unreliable nature of prophecy. We have Tyrion and Marwyn, two really smart men, tell us this in the series, and we have examples of characters getting prophecy wrong many times - Melisandre being the best example, and possibly Rhaegar as well. The cases where we have 100% accurate prophets (Jojen and Ghost of High Heart) the prophecies are so metaphorical that it's almost impossible for in-book characters to decipher them until they have actually come to pass. 

So Bloodraven interpreting a prophecy correctly is not unlikely, but doesn't seem to fit GRRM's style until now. He likes his prophecy notoriously unreliable. 

- The other thing here is, BR has to assume Dunk's kid with Nan - and all their future children - would stay at Winterfell, loyal to the Stark family. In one of Bran's chapters in AGOT, I think he tells us that all of Nan's family has left Winterfell, and only Hodor remained - somehow I don't know if BR could have assumed that all those years ago.

Note that I'm not ruling out the actual possibility of the vision itself occuring to BR - a cripple kid who's being carried by a huge man becoming his student, as Targs definitely seem to have the ability to receive prophetic dreams.

Yup I hear ya LSoN, I just always felt that first meeting passing between Dunk and Bloodraven stirred something in BR and is significant somehow. 

I think BR will appear pretty constantly in the coming Novellas and he will be the one who comes to North to take care of Dagon and co. so i can certainly keep tabs on my theory as the Novellas progress. 

[Macgregor of the North]

50 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

Macgregor,

I have two points against the theory:

 - GRRM's hammered it to readers many times about the unreliable nature of prophecy. We have Tyrion and Marwyn, two really smart men, tell us this in the series, and we have examples of characters getting prophecy wrong many times - Melisandre being the best example, and possibly Rhaegar as well. The cases where we have 100% accurate prophets (Jojen and Ghost of High Heart) the prophecies are so metaphorical that it's almost impossible for in-book characters to decipher them until they have actually come to pass. 

So Bloodraven interpreting a prophecy correctly is not unlikely, but doesn't seem to fit GRRM's style until now. He likes his prophecy notoriously unreliable. 

 

I had theorised that possibly BR does get it wrong at first like you say, and he thinks the Brandon may be the Brandon that Nan is to wet nurse for and the large man may be Dunk. 

But later it becomes clear that the large man is a future descendant of their union and the Brandon is our Bran we know in the story. 

Of course all speculation and no way of knowing until more books appear but I'm having some fun theorising over it all 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

7 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Of course all speculation and no way of knowing until more books appear but I'm having some fun theorising over it all 

 That's what keeps us going in the Long Night between books after all.

[Wolf of the Steppes]

10 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Yup I hear ya LSoN, I just always felt that first meeting passing between Dunk and Bloodraven stirred something in BR and is significant somehow. 

Remember that the first time that Bloodraven was ever mentioned was this:

"The realm was full of lawless men these days. The drought showed no signs of ending, and smallfolk by the thousands had taken to the roads, looking for someplace where the rains still fell. Lord Bloodraven had commanded them to return to their own lands and lords, but few obeyed. Many blamed Bloodravenand King Aerys for the drought. It was a judgment from the gods, they said, for the kinslayer is accursed. If they were wise, though, they did not say it loudly. How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? ran the riddle Egg had heard in Oldtown. A thousand eyes, and one.

Six years ago in King's Landing, Dunk had seen him with his own two eyes, as he rode a pale horse up the Street of Steel with fifty Raven's Teeth behind him. That was before King Aerys had ascended to the Iron Throne and made him the Hand, but even so he cut a striking figure, garbed in smoke and scarlet with Dark Sister on his hip. His pallid skin and bone-white hair made him look a living corpse. Across his cheek and chin spread a wine-stain birthmark that was supposed to resemble a red raven, though Dunk only saw an odd-shaped blotch of discolored skin. He stared so hard that Bloodraven felt it. The king's sorcerer had turned to study him as he went by. He had one eye, and that one red. The other was an empty socket, the gift Bittersteel had given him upon the Redgrass Field. Yet it seemed to Dunk that both eyes had looked right through his skin, down to his very soul."--The Sworn Sword

In all probability, GRRM was probably just give the reader an impression of the character.

BUT

I have always felt the same way about this encounter.  Like it meant something bigger.

@Macgregor of the North, I think a lot of this is a huge stretch, but I really like thinking about it and what if..... Thanks!

 

[Macgregor of the North]

@Wolf of the Steppes. Cheers. 

Yeah my whole OP is based round that passage of Dunk and BR's first passing silent meeting. The first time I read and every time since I have always felt it has some higher significance, and out of that this quite adventurous theory was born. 

I await the WF Novella with as much excitement as I have for WoW, and I'm sure BR will play a part in that one heavily as well as the following Novellas so I will be keeping tabs to see if my theory develops in some shape or form. 

It must be BR who rides North to deal with Dagon as we know know he handles these things himself and takes the field with no question. I believe he will help the Westerlands and then WF to finally beat back the Greyjoys. 

"Almost a hundred years had passed since Dagon Greyjoy sat the Seastone Chair, but the ironborn still told tales of his raids and battles. In Dagon's day a weak king sat the Iron Throne, his rheumy eyes fixed across the narrow sea where bastards and exiles plotted rebellion. So forth from Pyke Lord Dagon sailed, to make the Sunset Sea his own. "He bearded the lion in his den and tied the direwolf's tail in knots, but even Dagon could not defeat the dragons."

It will be awesome to read of more of Dunks exploits with BR nearby. Even if my theory does not pan out I can't wait for the stories to come all the same.