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Randyl Tarley and Sam Dinner discussions


BobinIL

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2 hours ago, Tianzi said:

Well, he was an one-dimentional cartoon bigot in the books too.

All I'm saying is that he shouldn't have immediately believed one half of her story (that she was beyond the Wall) while not even stopping for the other. And he isn't 'no-nonsense', more like narrow minded.

One-dimensional people exist in real life too, bigots are usually among them. I'll never understand why peple pretend that, in order to be considered good, every character depicted in a novel need to have complex personalitiesd when you can go to the street and quickly find ten people whose personalities are simpler than their shoes.

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2 minutes ago, Boarsbane said:

No he isn't, yes he's a bigot and a brute but he's also one of the few characters we see dispensing just to the people of the Riverlands. And he saves Brienne from a possible rape

No, he ends chaos in his troops and adds ideology to that to put her in her place. Not to mention he doesn't even take her ability to save herself into account, he under-estimates her ability to fight even after she proves herself, his 'justice' involves proclaiming he won't lift a finger if Brienne were raped in Riverlands, and is completely blind to practical merit of making Sam a maester (and he would rid of him as a heir all the same). He has toughness and discipline, I'll give him that, but he is mostly a cartoon to me.

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4 minutes ago, Icefear said:

One-dimensional people exist in real life too, bigots are usually among them. I'll never understand why peple pretend that, in order to be considered good, every character depicted in a novel need to have complex personalitiesd when you can go to the street and quickly find ten people whose personalities are simpler than their shoes.

Well, if it makes any difference I don't consider such people as good characters in real life too.

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2 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

No, he ends chaos in his troops and adds ideology to that to put her in her place. Not to mention he doesn't even take her ability to save herself into account, he under-estimates her ability to fight even after she proves herself, his 'justice' involves proclaiming he won't lift a finger if Brienne were raped in Riverlands, and is completely blind to practical merit of making Sam a maester (and he would rid of him as a heir all the same). He has toughness and discipline, I'll give him that, but he is mostly a cartoon to me.

Hes no saint but I don't think you understand one dimensional, a one dimensional character is someone like Ramsay who is just evil for the sake of being evil, Randyll's harsh attitude and poor treatment of Sam make him unlikable but we see he truly believes in justice and he isn't cruel for the sake of being cruel. By putting her in her place he is trying to save her from a rape, and he was right because frankly she's very lucky that Jaime saved her from some at the hands of the Bloody Mummers. He's hardly the only person to underestimate Brienne and I suspect he's just saying he wouldn't punish her rape to try and scare her home where he thinks she belongs. 

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30 minutes ago, Hodor's Aunt said:

what "treason" would that be? And why would Tarly be allowed to jugde it?

No idea about the treason but Tarly is the local Lord so he would be local judge as well. 

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8 minutes ago, Boarsbane said:

Hes no saint but I don't think you understand one dimensional, a one dimensional character is someone like Ramsay who is just evil for the sake of being evil, Randyll's harsh attitude and poor treatment of Sam make him unlikable but we see he truly believes in justice and he isn't cruel for the sake of being cruel. By putting her in her place he is trying to save her from a rape, and he was right because frankly she's very lucky that Jaime saved her from some at the hands of the Bloody Mummers. He's hardly the only person to underestimate Brienne and I suspect he's just saying he wouldn't punish her rape to try and scare her home where he thinks she belongs. 

Well if you suspect you're talking about your interpretation of the character, I'm commenting what I read.

I didn't accuse him of being Ramsay or being cruel for being cruel but being a narrow-minded patriarchy values soldier with its good, bad and idiotic. I don't consider him to be antichrist, but a pretty one-note character. Which is no great sin since he is a very minor character, but I still cringe at his caricatural bigotry (even if this just mirrors some real life people).

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I was really disappointed in Sam during this scene. 

He's been through hell, fought White Walkers, killed Walkers and men, fought Wildings, etc. 

Compared to what he's been through, a verbal spar with his father should have been a piece of cake - especially for someone as clever as him. Disappointed at how weak he looked and acted. 

But pleased he grew a backbone and did the right thing in the end. 

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1 hour ago, Hodor's Aunt said:

OMG, you cannot compare RL situation with the Tarly's. Tarly has no television (no fox news television that is) and has never seen any wildling. What would he care about wildlings? His character portrail is complete bs, here.

Everyone knows and cares about the wildlings. They're the neighbors to the North, the common enemy, etc. People like Yoren go up and down the Seven Kingdoms telling lords about their struggles with the wildlings. If you seriously think Randyll Tarly wouldn't be pissed upon finding out that an actual wildling is sitting at his table, then we're reading different books. 

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16 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Everyone knows and cares about the wildlings. They're the neighbors to the North, the common enemy, etc. People like Yoren go up and down the Seven Kingdoms telling lords about their struggles with the wildlings. If you seriously think Randyll Tarly wouldn't be pissed upon finding out that an actual wildling is sitting at his table, then we're reading different books. 

I agree with all of this. 

I didn't find anything odd about Randall Tarly's portrayal. 

He's a proud, arrogant man, and everyone in Westeros hates (misunderstands) the Wildlings. 

So his reaction when he found out that Gilly felt... reasonable and predictable. 

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i would like for old man tarly to find sam a kick his ass and take the sword back. the old man tarly gets killed some time after and little brother tarly sends the sword to the wall or goes to the wall to help is bro fight white walkers.

i liked when he said they hunted rabbits and squirrels the look on young bro tarly was like "shit... life sucks ups there i can't believe sam is not dead"

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2 hours ago, Lord Syv Aldlark said:

Treason- betraying one's country.

Saying he sired a child and is with a wildling girl a sworn enemy as so put by Tarly himself.

Hence Sam in his hardcore bigot fathers eye should be a traitor and oath breaker and be put on trial.

It's really simple

But the Lord COmmander, whose subject Samwell is, apparently knew and send him and his family on their way.

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Apart from the fact that we generally had too much of the storyline in this episode considering it's fairly minor compared to some, I thought the dinner scene was fairly solid. Randyll's portrayal was spot on. He was always going to be disappointed in Sam going to become a maester after all, and it's fairly natural that he'd hold resentment against a Wildling. Hope we see more of Randyll since the actor nailed the part.

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4 hours ago, TickTak7 said:

I was really disappointed in Sam during this scene. 

He's been through hell, fought White Walkers, killed Walkers and men, fought Wildings, etc. 

Compared to what he's been through, a verbal spar with his father should have been a piece of cake - especially for someone as clever as him. Disappointed at how weak he looked and acted. 

But pleased he grew a backbone and did the right thing in the end. 

The thing about Sam's character though is despite all the shit he's seen and done, he's still full of self-doubt and lacks any sort of confidence. Considering his father is the main source of that, due to his berating of him in previous years, Sam was always going to back down in a spar between them. It's nice to think that Sam was gonna finally stand up to his vicious dad and give him a piece of his mind, but it wouldn't have been realistic or true to the characters.

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2 minutes ago, Tianzi said:

But the Lord COmmander, whose subject Samwell is, apparently knew and send him and his family on their way.

So? The Lord Commander doesn't have full dominion over the men of the watch when they're south.

Randal Tarly while not the most pleasant man is a man of the realm and the law.

If we are going to play out the whole- you got a half breed, the realms sworn enemies, pregnant as a Nightswatch men.

Then the next step of that would be arresting Sam for breaking his legally binding oath.

As fornication with a sworn enemy to the crown and having a child with her would be breaking it twice.

If we're going to have the characterization of a character be a certain way then it should be that way.

 

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7 minutes ago, Lord Syv Aldlark said:

So? The Lord Commander doesn't have full dominion over the men of the watch when they're south.

Randal Tarly while not the most pleasant man is a man of the realm and the law.

If we are going to play out the whole- you got a half breed, the realms sworn enemies, pregnant as a Nightswatch men.

Then the next step of that would be arresting Sam for breaking his legally binding oath.

As fornication with a sworn enemy to the crown and having a child with her would be breaking it twice.

If we're going to have the characterization of a character be a certain way then it should be that way.

 

Well he doesn't but if he decided not to punish him for a particular thing, his orders should be binding, otherwise there would be a mess if all the local lords would question LC orders and decisions regarding his underlings.

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56 minutes ago, Jairion Lannister said:

The thing about Sam's character though is despite all the shit he's seen and done, he's still full of self-doubt and lacks any sort of confidence. Considering his father is the main source of that, due to his berating of him in previous years, Sam was always going to back down in a spar between them. It's nice to think that Sam was gonna finally stand up to his vicious dad and give him a piece of his mind, but it wouldn't have been realistic or true to the characters.

But based on what you are saying, him running away with Gilly AND his father's sword wouldn't be realistic for the character too then, would it? 

I mean - how many people expected the scene to be pretty much over when Sam said goodbye to Gilly and walked away? That felt very true to this natural character behavior, rather than what he ended up doing. 

 

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30 minutes ago, TickTak7 said:

But based on what you are saying, him running away with Gilly AND his father's sword wouldn't be realistic for the character too then, would it? 

I mean - how many people expected the scene to be pretty much over when Sam said goodbye to Gilly and walked away? That felt very true to this natural character behavior, rather than what he ended up doing. 

 

Sam taking the sword was a bold move, but it was logical enough in that he did it when his father wasn't there. He'd had time to think after the dinner, too. He seemed pretty happy to be home and his father's put down seemed to take him aback.

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12 minutes ago, Jairion Lannister said:

Sam taking the sword was a bold move, but it was logical enough in that he did it when his father wasn't there. He'd had time to think after the dinner, too. He seemed pretty happy to be home and his father's put down seemed to take him aback.

Fair assessment. 

I can see where you are coming from. It makes sense. 

I guess just being Team Sam, I wanted him to step up and stick up for himself in a more... direct... way, against his father. 

Who knows - maybe that moment comes later. 

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