Question re: Arya and the Faceless Men

[Jaken]

When Arya is in her room, she hears something outside, then she immediately blows out the candle, not for sleep but to lie in wait. Perhaps because as was earlier pointed out, she fights better in the dark. But anyway she has Needle now.

Her talk with Lady Crane about a mother's feelings shows she has not lost her humanity as many feared when she was in training and when she killed so easily in cold blood. I think Arya is back in the game (and about time).

[House Toad]

1 hour ago, Morgana Lannister said:

On a serious note, this makes a hell of a lot of sense.  Kicking myself hard for having missed the connection in the books!!!  Thanks for pointing it out (even if it is just a theory) because I really endorse this theory or did I miss something and this is actually canon?  

Varys is very wary of magic (for understandable reasons lol) but I get the feeling that we will get to learn more about that too.  Now, hell, all I remember from the books is that people shit themselves when Cersei came up with the revelation that she wasn't paying them for now... and her advisors kind of freaked out.  They said it was because they would just go (the bank) and support other contenders to the throne but I reckon that is definitely not their only method, wow, how could I be so blind!!!  and of course our dearest Petyr got well and truly indebted to them as has Stannis...Yes, yes, yes, we are definitely going to see more about them.  Both organisations (FM and Bank of Bravoos) sound worse than all the Lannisters, Tyrells and High Sparrow put together but great, great potential plot.  Now, I doubt they would order Arya to kill Cersei (despite her being on the list) because I think Cersei's arc will pan out differently but someone is certainly going to be in big shit.  Now with Arya my view is that is she kills the Waif, the debt is paid and she should be able to walk free but then I have now demonstrated what a Tommen like naive reader I am lol

The Iron bank sending Arya to kill Dany a probability because of the amount of contracts that have already been placed on her, these included Robert's very mention of hiring the FM, later using Varys to hire Jorah, and the contract from the sorrowful men of Qarth presumably a similarly contracted guild as the temple of the undying, or the Iron bank sending Arya to kill any other creditor who threatens future stability or incomes. The FM have been working in Westeros already with Arya's very recruitment. Dubiously of how Jaqen was caught?

The Mythos behind the Braavosi as well that is intriguing, they have ridden out other invasions seemingly protected as the Iron bank pulling the strings. The Targeryens didn't bother them, on route to Westeros, why not? They use a guild offering a religion that contracts itself out supposedly to its worshipers, but also in having banking information that spans the globe, using the means of killing with impunity being justified as a religion. The coin that was given by Jaqen to Arya as a means of entry to its service.There is a larger piece to this puzzle other than their services to the realm's banking needs. Doubtfully they're all pirates and brigands.

There is also the Titan protecting their Islands from the rest of its global storms of fire and ice?

Varys uses similar deceptions possibly trained in similar arts, pulling the strings and moving the pieces on an unseen board, from book one whispered conversations, to Kevan's death, and his involvement with Aegon and Tyrion's escape, employing his birds to spy unseen everywhere as he changes his disguises at whim often confusing Tyrion, and he kills getting his hands messy. A servant of the realm or what its stability offers him.

[Morgana Lannister]

13 minutes ago, House Toad said:

The Iron bank sending Arya to kill Dany a probability because of the amount of contracts that have already been placed on her, these included Robert's very mention of hiring the FM, later using Varys to hire Jorah, and the contract from the sorrowful men of Qarth presumably a similarly contracted guild as the temple of the undying, or the Iron bank sending Arya to kill any other creditor who threatens future stability or incomes. The FM have been working in Westeros already with Arya's very recruitment. Dubiously of how Jaqen was caught?

The Mythos behind the Braavosi as well that is intriguing, they have ridden out other invasions seemingly protected as the Iron bank pulling the strings. The Targeryens didn't bother them, on route to Westeros, why not? They use a guild offering a religion that contracts itself out supposedly to its worshipers, but also in having banking information that spans the globe, using the means of killing with impunity being justified as a religion. The coin that was given by Jaqen to Arya as a means of entry to its service.There is a larger piece to this puzzle other than their services to the realm's banking needs. Doubtfully they're all pirates and brigands.

There is also the Titan protecting their Islands from the rest of its global storms of fire and ice?

Varys uses similar deceptions possibly trained in similar arts, employing his birds to spy unseen everywhere as he changes his disguises at whim often confusing Tyrion and he kills getting his hands messy. A servant of the realm or what its stability offers him.

Fascinating... we shall hear more from them indeed now one of the questions would be would Arya keep the secrets of her time with them? will see answer their call (if that were the case) in the future or is she now out to destroy them (or try to more likely...) just like the others on her list?

Varys and Illyrio, hell yes, they are using something pretty hidden and unethical too for sure, including Aegon (who I just never took too but that is a different matter and just personal preference lol) but that riddle and the "powers reside where men believe resides" must surely point to something... absolutely fascinating the whole thing though

[House Toad]

13 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Fascinating... we shall hear more from them indeed now one of the questions would be would Arya keep the secrets of her time with them? will see answer their call (if that were the case) in the future or is she now out to destroy them (or try to more likely...) just like the others on her list?

Varys and Illyrio, hell yes, they are using something pretty hidden and unethical too for sure, including Aegon (who I just never took too but that is a different matter and just personal preference lol) but that riddle and the "powers reside where men believe resides" must surely point to something... absolutely fascinating the whole thing though

I think the show might have glossed some of this by, who knows? But it is looking like Arya's future will probably be going back to her roots and joining up with the Riverland resistance front, adding her ninjutsu to her targets, seemingly her memory has been jogged by the theatre and now her training is done, as it seems she has just enough time to add Waif to her list of prayers. What will probably happen is the kindly man will let her back out into the world to complete her list of prayers, later reminding her of her service and its commitments to their god, presumably through a meet with Jaqen later? Who knows if she has to uphold their prayers, because she is seemingly bound?

Unless it was all a dead end?

[Morgana Lannister]

2 minutes ago, House Toad said:

I think the show might have glossed some of this by, who knows? But it is looking like Arya's future will probably be going back to her roots and joining up with the Riverland resistance front, seemingly her memory has been jogged by the theatre and now her training is done, as it seems she has just enough time to add Waif to her list of prayers. What will probably happen is the kindly man will let her back out into the world, later reminding her of her service and its commitments to its god, presumably through a meet with Jaqen later? Who knows if she has to uphold their prayers because seemingly she is bound?

Oh, definitely thinking that she is off to the Riverlands and, fascinating as the back story is, to me the whole Essos thing (I have to say sadly with all characters) has began to bore me to tears so I want everyone back to Westeros lol (very probably not wise ;)).  I think her next plot story will not include the FM but I reckon, yeah, sooner or later they will catch up with her and ask for something in return for her training or whatever.  Let's hope she can outsmart them (doubtful) or the WW get there first lol

[Morgana Lannister]

43 minutes ago, Jaken said:

When Arya is in her room, she hears something outside, then she immediately blows out the candle, not for sleep but to lie in wait. Perhaps because as was earlier pointed out, she fights better in the dark. But anyway she has Needle now.

Her talk with Lady Crane about a mother's feelings shows she has not lost her humanity as many feared when she was in training and when she killed so easily in cold blood. I think Arya is back in the game (and about time).

My thoughts exactly re second paragraph, not sure what the first signifies though.

[House Toad]

19 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Oh, definitely thinking that she is off to the Riverlands and, fascinating as the back story is, to me the whole Essos thing (I have to say sadly with all characters) has began to bore me to tears so I want everyone back to Westeros lol (very probably not wise ;)).  I think her next plot story will not include the FM but I reckon, yeah, sooner or later they will catch up with her and ask for something in return for her training or whatever.  Let's hope she can outsmart them (doubtful) or the WW get there first lol

Maybe she will stop by KL first, seemingly Cersei is a survivor, from the seasonal trailer where she was doing another walk of fame alongside the calvary

Arya will leave training completed in killing the Waif, free to roam and kill, later in the future the gamer changer is asked of her services and pointlessly not a name on her already prayed upon list. Maybe she will refuse killing Jaqen, but he gave her the gift and upon taking it, not accepting it, would mean ending the Braavosi or their temple, something nobody else has done, because she would be a far too personal vendetta than just another contract that they don't miss. Or she is a dead end?

[Morgana Lannister]

15 minutes ago, House Toad said:

Maybe she will stop by KL first, seemingly Cersei is a survivor, from the seasonal trailer where she was doing another walk of fame alongside the calvary

Arya will leave training completed in killing the Waif, free to roam and kill, later in the future the gamer changer is asked of her services and pointlessly not a name on her already prayed upon list. Maybe she will refuse killing Jaqen, but he gave her the gift and upon taking it, not accepting it, would mean ending the Braavosi or their temple, something nobody else has done, because she would be a far too personal vendetta than just another contract that they don't miss. Or she is a dead end?

Not sure that it will end like that but like the idea

 

[Daar]

My theory: the Waif is the really target for Arya, given by Jaqen H'ghar. All of that was a plot to Arya set up a trap. She is advancing in her trainning.

[House Toad]

8 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Not sure that it will end like that but like the idea

 

Probably not, the waif I have been confusing with her sparring partner. Karma suggests that the stronger wins in services of death, completing her training. Maybe they will blind her again and she'll still be selling shrimps on the seashore. Somehow her epiphany of nothing has been stirred by remembering something, signalling new goals but she is bound by her prayers and it wasn't a walk in walk out job. Unless there is some other divine retribution because even in killing who is currently on Temple grounds doesn't succeed in killing a nation of believers. So that past will haunt her.

[Facebookless Man]

On 28/5/2016 at 8:37 PM, Forlong the Fat said:

My question: does that make sense

hahaha

[The Handsome Man]

2 hours ago, Charlie Of House Bucket said:

This turn bummed me a bit.  I was actually hoping we would see the full training until she eventually becomes a skilled assassin, and for her path then to intersect with the rest of the story by being given a mission to kill somebody big that we might already know elsewhere.  Alas, I guess the bit with her being unable to let go of Needle really telegraphed that she wouldn't be able to give up her Arya-identity so easily.  I find the faceless men fascinating since they seem to be able to kill anyone in the world flawlessly, and wanted to see into the full repertory of their techniques and deeper into details of their order and religion.  Bah humbug.  Praying that the upcoming book gives her further apprenticeship some more heft with them.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she somehow goes back or that this is a further test, but I don't think that's going to be the way things go.

Spot on -- I feel the same.  Given two seasons in Braavos, we should have seen more of the training and technique of the FM than sweeping floors and a 30 second training montage.  By the time Arya kills the merchant and then Raff in the books, that training shows -- melding with (and perhaps augmenting) her identity.  Obviously, she ALREADY has many faces --  Nan, Squab, Salty, Weasel, Cat, Blind Beth, Mercy etc -- but Arya is always there underneath, especially when her thoughts turn to vengeance.  It is an incredibly rich character development in the books.  I do not think we will be disappointed by what GRRM is planning for her.  

It just would have been nice to see more of this these past two seasons on the show.  That said, I could see some of it all coming together in the last few episodes.

[princess_snow]

2 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

Arya kills the Waif, wears her face, goes back to Jaqen, kills Jaqen, steals another face from the Hall, shows up again in the season finale, kills someone important with her new face. 

You read it here first, folks. 

Love it. That would be a great way to wind up the Braavos FM story.  

[Morgana Lannister]

2 minutes ago, princess_snow said:

Love it. That would be a great way to wind up the Braavos FM story.  

I wouldn;t tell anyone if I were a witness to Arya's disobeyance lol   Hate FM with a passion so go gal, hope you are right!

 

[princess_snow]

4 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

I wouldn;t tell anyone if I were a witness to Arya's disobeyance lol   Hate FM with a passion so go gal, hope you are right!

 

Yeah Im not much of a fan of them, just too many discrepancies re their rules around taking and giving to  the many faced God. Hopefully we get some closure in terms of at least understanding what the hell they are really on about. Because right now its confusing. Some interesting points tho in this thread about them. If this is not a test by Jaqen to kill the waif then she had better take down Jaqen  and the house of B & W as surely they will be relentless in taking her out ?? Perhaps that is too simple tho and we are about to have a big reveal re all this.  

[Morgana Lannister]

Just now, princess_snow said:

Yeah Im not much of a fan of them, just too many discrepancies re their rules around taking and giving to  the many faced God. Hopefully we get some closure in terms of at least understanding what the hell they are really on about. Because right now its confusing. Some interesting points tho in this thread about them. If this is not a test by Jaqen to kill the waif then she had better take down Jaqen  and the house of B & W as surely they will be relentless in taking her out ?? Perhaps that is too simple tho and we are about to have a big reveal re all this.  

They are definitely a wild card; I do like the suggestions that a previous poster has made re connections with Bank of Bravoos etc but I guess it's a case of wait and see

[princess_snow]

1 minute ago, Morgana Lannister said:

They are definitely a wild card; I do like the suggestions that a previous poster has made re connections with Bank of Bravoos etc but I guess it's a case of wait and see

Yes that is interesting..... hopefully it ties up before the end of season, I hope Arya is back in Westeros before end of season too.

[Morgana Lannister]

1 minute ago, princess_snow said:

Yes that is interesting..... hopefully it ties up before the end of season, I hope Arya is back in Westeros before end of season too.

Definitely, getting bored of Westeros in terms of several characters lol but this could just be me...

[Charlie Of House Bucket]

37 minutes ago, The Handsome Man said:

Spot on -- I feel the same.  Given two seasons in Braavos, we should have seen more of the training and technique of the FM than sweeping floors and a 30 second training montage.  By the time Arya kills the merchant and then Raff in the books, that training shows -- melding with (and perhaps augmenting) her identity.  Obviously, she ALREADY has many faces --  Nan, Squab, Salty, Weasel, Cat, Blind Beth, Mercy etc -- but Arya is always there underneath, especially when her thoughts turn to vengeance.  It is an incredibly rich character development in the books.  I do not think we will be disappointed by what GRRM is planning for her.  

It just would have been nice to see more of this these past two seasons on the show.  That said, I could see some of it all coming together in the last few episodes.

Aye.  Good to hear I'm not alone on this.  I was thinking the story would have her assigned to kill someone she would prefer not to as Arya, and that being "no one" was going to conflict with her formed ethics and previous allegiances, and then she would probably leave the FM out of a crisis of conscience/identity.  I expect that you're right though.  GRRM certainly tends to explore nuances a lot better than the show does, so I hope not to be disappointed.  I loved the poisoned coin assassination in ADwD.  It was a nice and clever bit of writing, and I was disappointed not to see it in the show, where e.g. this week's episode had her doing something much more mundane - fumbling around with poison in the green room while nobody was around, which certainly doesn't take a faceless man to accomplish and would have represented a probably monumental waste of money by the client.  

The child-turned-master-assassin idea is unfortunately a well trodden cliché, but GRRM managed to make it (in my opinion) fresh and interesting with the FM, and the Braavos sections in general are some of my favourite bits of descriptive writing in all the books.

[hallam]

10 hours ago, Saiyan said:

And what will Arya do against the Waif and the other Faceless Men? Her "training" only consisted of being beaten up almost every day, some stick fighting blindfolded and maybe some knowledge about poisons. She really hasn't learn anything important.

Arya is trained to use a sword. And the Waif is not. Nor does the Waif expect Arya to know how to defend herself. 

6 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said:

What price did the young actress paid intrigues me too and my guess is that this shall be revealed either in the show, the books or both (even if in the books is through a different sub plot).  Guessing that maybe she saved someone herself, hence they owe her a debt like what happened with Arya at Harrenhall, but maybe this is too easy and simplistic...

It seems to me that the troupe is Arya's ticket back to Westeros. So presumably the younger actress has to be out of the way for that to happen. They have probably discovered that the rum was poisoned. I would guess the younger actress runs off, kills herself or is helped.

5 hours ago, ebourget said:

Ok I have a lot of nitpicks with Arya's story in Ep6 but I'm going to gloss over those and mention something interesting that just occurred to me.

In the final scene when she is getting ready for bed with Needle at her side,  Arya blows out the candle and goes to sleep without reciting her prayer list.  I can't tell if this was just omitted because it's unecesary at this point and they just didn't overthink the scene.  OR if this was deliberate and was done to show that Arya has infact overcome her "self", that her training is actually taking root and she has learned something.

Thoughts?  Maybe she's not actually going to sleep and she's just laying in wait to set a trap but still.   Flames + bedtime + list is her ritual, has been since season 2...

Well one possibility is that she isn't actually going to sleep. Another is that she has grown up and no longer wants to kill Cersei for the sake of it. She can see things from her point of view.

That and the 'Valonquar' has that kill.

Walder Frey on the other hand...