Utter crackpot idea; original Ice became Lightbringer and then Dawn was born.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

****This is an utter crackpot idea and I have absolutely no text to support it.****

 

After reading Voice of the First Men's thread about How Ice Became Dawn (Updated) I had a crazy idea. I think that the original Ice,  Dawn and the original Lightbringer are all the same sword. I have long believed that all the all the saviour figures was just one person and that the differenct cultures scopes just gave him their own cultures aspects; the Targs or even the Valyrian named him a 3headed dragon, the R'llorists Azor Ahai the wood witch named him the Prince that was Promised. That is why I believe that maybe the most famous swords are the same sword. We know that the Wall is protected by different kind of magic and since Mel's magic grew stronger at the Wall some fire magic has to be involved. So he used his sword Ice and by using the fire magic at the Wall created Lightbringer. After the war the two "natures" of the sword created and brought the Dawn.

 

I confess that only came to me just because of the colors associated with each sword; ice blue for Ice and red for Lightbringer becomes purple for Dawn.

 

Or I most likely am absolutely wrong and I am talking completely nonsense. 

[JonCon's Red Beard]

20 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Or I most likely am absolutely wrong and I am talking completely nonsense. 

Dawn means almost literally light bringer: "to begin to become light as the sun rises". I don't think it's crackpot at all.

I also agree Ice is Dawn and is LB. I think it's not coincidence that, despite Dawn is so white, it's never compared to snow or ice, when it should be. I believe what happened was that Ice was sent to the South by the Daynes (who are First Men), and they hide Ice, calling it Dawn. The Starks got another sword instead (and maybe this is the second or third "Ice").

[MinotaurWarrior]

If Azor Ahai = the Last Hero, then Lightbribger was shattered after the deaths of the thirteen companions, and before the meeting with the Children. In that case, it couldn't be Dawn.

[enoofu]

Hard to say what happen to the original Ice since a lot of things have happened to the Stark Line since, including Brandon Stark Shipwright being missing at sea, and the entire male line being killed off during Bael the Bard time.

 

[Dorian Martell]

4 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

****This is an utter crackpot idea and I have absolutely no text to support it.****

Or I most likely am absolutely wrong and I am talking completely nonsense. 

Who knows how right or wrong you are until the story is finished. I don't think Dawn is Lightbringer, mostly because dawn isn't on fire. I do think Dawn and the Runic bronze armor of the royces and Winterfell were originally the possessions of the last hero who gave them to friends/children and sent them over the continent for protection. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

If Azor Ahai = the Last Hero, then Lightbribger was shattered after the deaths of the thirteen companions, and before the meeting with the Children. In that case, it couldn't be Dawn.

That is mny mistake. I had made a mistake including the Last Hero, since I believe that the the Song of Ice and Fire=the Prince that was Promised=Azor Ahai Reborn but the Last Hero isn't one of them. I have corrected it now.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

7 hours ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

it's never compared to snow or ice, when it should be.

I have never thought about it. Great catch!

7 hours ago, enoofu said:

Hard to say what happen to the original Ice since a lot of things have happened to the Stark Line since, including Brandon Stark Shipwright being missing at sea, and the entire male line being killed off during Bael the Bard time.

If BShipwright had taken Ice with him we would had been told that the original Ice was lost like the Lannister sword. Also the fact that Bael's son killed his father and was killed by a Bolton, doesn't mean that the male Stark line was killed off since he may had children and if the Boltons had the sword they would had it as a family heirloom and not hidden away.

3 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

Who knows how right or wrong you are until the story is finished. I don't think Dawn is Lightbringer, mostly because dawn isn't on fire.

That is why I said that the two *natures* of the sword united, the red fire united with iceblue ice and created purple.

3 hours ago, Dorian Martell said:

I do think Dawn and the Runic bronze armor of the royces and Winterfell were originally the possessions of the last hero who gave them to friends/children and sent them over the continent for protection. 

Now that is something that I have never thought about it but I like it.

[Ygrain]

Not so crackpottish at all. The current Ice that Ned Stark carried was not the original ancestral blade and we don't know what happened to it. The Dayne ancestral blade is superancient and is colour white, which is not the colour of morning but of snow or ice. Curious.

Not exactly sure where or how Lightbringer comes in but it is supposed to be a red flaming sword. We have seen a sword aflame - Berric's, when his blood touched the blade. And a bloodied blade would be red, especially if plunged deep into someone's heart - hey, AA, what was it again that you did to your poor wife?

Now, of course, it may all be completely wrong, but I wouldn't call it unbased, no.

[Falcon2908]

How can Ice be Dawn if they're two different swords?

[LordImp]

Dawn is a sword of ice and fire ? 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Not so crackpottish at all. The current Ice that Ned Stark carried was not the original ancestral blade and we don't know what happened to it. The Dayne ancestral blade is superancient and is colour white, which is not the colour of morning but of snow or ice. Curious.

Not exactly sure where or how Lightbringer comes in but it is supposed to be a red flaming sword. We have seen a sword aflame - Berric's, when his blood touched the blade. And a bloodied blade would be red, especially if plunged deep into someone's heart - hey, AA, what was it again that you did to your poor wife?

Now, of course, it may all be completely wrong, but I wouldn't call it unbased, no.

The fact that we have never been told how Ice was lost got me thinking. We know that Dark Sister was with BR, Blackfyre was with the Golden Company, Brightroar was lost with Tommen II. We have told that Ned's Ice is not the original Ice yet we have never been told even a gossip about how it was lost. We know that Ned's Ice was with the Stark family about a hundrent years before AL so it wasn't one of the IThrone's swords, so how about the original one?

7 minutes ago, Falcon2908 said:

How can Ice be Dawn if they're two different swords?

I am talking about the original Ice not Ned's Ice.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

3 minutes ago, LordImp said:

Dawn is a sword of ice and fire ? 

Kind of yes. Much like the two *kind* of spells that they were used in order to create the Wall the sword that was used during the Battle for the Dawn is forged with two different kind of spells.

[LordImp]

5 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Kind of yes. Much like the two *kind* of spells that they were used in order to create the Wall the sword that was used during the Battle for the Dawn is forged with two different kind of spells.

I like it. Would make perfect sense for Jon to wield it. I have always tought of Dawn as a pure and clean sword , while the VS swords are corrupted . 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

36 minutes ago, LordImp said:

while the VS swords are corrupted

Agree. I have long theorized that the weapon to defeat the Others isn't fire or its products and Valyrian steel since it is created with fire spells is basically a product of fire. I believe that both Fire and Ice are the enemies of humanity when the song also known as the balance between Ice and Fire, the balance of nature itself is what will defeat them both. Look at obsidian; it is lava, a molten (fire) liquid (water) rock (earth) that is cooled (cold air) and is the only thing that can kill the Others. So basically the weapon to kill the one of the enemies is the result of the nature's unification. Or I just went from the *utter crackpot* territory to the *inconceivable crackpot* territory.

[enoofu]

Possible that black stone could of been used in the sword construction

"keep the Lion of Night and his demons from the realms of men ", relating to the black stone 5 forts.

Also seems to useful in protecting people in Asshai since just about everyone their is practicing the dark arts from just about every magic

[LordImp]

1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Agree. I have long theorized that the weapon to defeat the Others isn't fire or its products and Valyrian steel since it is created with fire spells is basically a product of fire. I believe that both Fire and Ice are the enemies of humanity when the song also known as the balance between Ice and Fire, the balance of nature itself is what will defeat them both. Look at obsidian; it is lava, a molten (fire) liquid (water) rock (earth) that is cooled (cold air) and is the only thing that can kill the Others. So basically the weapon to kill the one of the enemies is the result of the nature's unification. Or I just went from the *utter crackpot* territory to the *inconceivable crackpot* territory.

Some good points there. Could it be some Obsidian in Dawn ? 

[Falcon2908]

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

The fact that we have never been told how Ice was lost got me thinking. We know that Dark Sister was with BR, Blackfyre was with the Golden Company, Brightroar was lost with Tommen II. We have told that Ned's Ice is not the original Ice yet we have never been told even a gossip about how it was lost. We know that Ned's Ice was with the Stark family about a hundrent years before AL so it wasn't one of the IThrone's swords, so how about the original one?

I am talking about the original Ice not Ned's Ice.

oooooooh

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, enoofu said:

Possible that black stone could of been used in the sword construction

"keep the Lion of Night and his demons from the realms of men ", relating to the black stone 5 forts.

Also seems to useful in protecting people in Asshai since just about everyone their is practicing the dark arts from just about every magic

You mean obsidian right?

1 hour ago, LordImp said:

Some good points there. Could it be some Obsidian in Dawn ? 

No I don't think so, mostly because onsidian is very brittle. However, obsidian is the naturally created volcanic rock, when IceLightbringerDawn is magically created but for similar purpose.

43 minutes ago, Falcon2908 said:

oooooooh

Yes.

[Falcon2908]

Obsidian and the Oily Black Stone are the same? Is there evidence for that?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

8 minutes ago, Falcon2908 said:

Obsidian and the Oily Black Stone are the same? Is there evidence for that?

I have no idea.