(SPOILERS) Criticise Without Reprecussion - Rant & Tear apart

[WSmith84]

I don't understand Dany's sudden decision to head for Westeros. In the books she has her desert epiphany thing, but that never existed in the show. Why is she prepared to just up and abandon everything now that she has a bigger army?

Remember when the show-watchers were saying that the show improved the story by cutting the Riverlands story? Good job Brienne and Jaime aren't heading that way, and there's no siege of Riverrun or Brotherhood without Banners, am I right?

Apparently the siege of Riverrun is far more important than the murder of Myrcella. An army to spare for a local Riverlands problem, but no army to spare when Dorne is rebelling? OK then.

Jaime. Jaime Jaime Jaime. Of course you were sacked; you didn't know where your King or five members of your Kingsguard were whilst you were heading an army to kill the Sparrows. I assume that Kevin is now a Faceless Man; it's the only way to understand his reversal.

I know that this wasn't in this episode, but it does amuse me watching the writers attempt to address the problems of the Winterfell plot whenever they can, only to make it worse. 'You married me to the family that murdered mine!' Well yeah, Sansa, you knew that when you agreed to it. LF tells everyone Sansa was kidnapped and no one questions why the men left LF (or anyone) alive to spread the tale. Royce's men are apparently happy to murder him.

Just... stop, show, stop.

[No One of Importance]

On 5/30/2016 at 1:59 AM, LulaMae Barnes said:

 learn a thing or two (very useful things I suppose) from Archmaester Marwyn - and then head back to the North with important knowledge that will help Jon and those who still fight with him.

But Marwyn's on his way to Slaver's Bay...

[sarah.jenice]

On 5/30/2016 at 9:08 AM, LazyBazooka said:

Dany's speech at the end felt to me like Cogman was pandering to feminists after last year's Sansa-rape-shit-storm.

For some reason, I fully expected her to continue with Drogo's rally speech and include raping all the women and taking the children as slaves. As the stars look down in witness. 

[Masha's apron]

I think one of the key problems with the show is down to the way GRRM has constructed ASOIAF so far. GRRM reveals through POV characters' conscious thought so, to a large extent, he doesn't need POV characters to express development through dialogue with other characters.

However, the show cannot do that. They need the main characters to engage in dialogue in order to reveal complexity, development and the intricacies of motive. Unfortunately, we've got to a point in the plot where most of the main characters are in isolated situations. There is pretty much no-one for them to engage in meaningful dialogue with.

Ayra has no-one with which to discuss how she feels and thinks (she used to recite her list, which could have opened the door to other vocalised thoughts, which would have also had the benefit of making her appear a little unhinged). Neither does Jon (he's lost Sam). Neither does, particularly, Sansa (and she has just sent away Brienne who could have been used for this function). Or Tyrion. Or Danys (who no longer has Missandei with her). And the problem now with Bran is that he's lost the 3EC (who he was conversing with about what he was seeing in the visions) so how is that going to work from a story driver perspective? From a TV point of view, it's tricky for Bran to reiterate what he has seen in his visions (that we will no doubt see) to other characters -- so either we are not going to see the important visions or Bran will have to reveal in a way that will inevitably create plot holes.

This sort of thing needs a hellova lot of thought -- and writing skill to pull off. But I don't think D&D can do it. Look at the "Benjen saves Meera and Bran" scene. Meera doesn't know the COTF created the WW at this point; yet when Benjen confirms it, she has no reaction. Yet that is a massive reveal for Meera, surely? Indeed, they probably had to resurrect Benjen at this point because there is no other way they can explore and explain Bran's visions to the show audience. They need Benjen so they can reveal the story gaps about the TOJ through dialogue between Bran and Benjen.         

Because of this "isolation" problem, what we are getting with this season is a series of sketches that reveal very little because there are no circumstances by which the characters can reveal anything.

The other really serious problem that links to this is there is no apparent character development. Sam, someone who has now killed a Thenn and a WW, still cannot stand up to his father. Danys, someone who has already "won" a khalasar and lost it because she didn't have a clear strategy and faced the catastrophe of conquering a city and not knowing how to govern it, has once more won Dothraki allegiance for an invasion without knowing what she will practically need to invade and once more wants to conquer a land without knowing how to govern the place.

No doubt GRRM will write this in a way that explains motives and thought processes because he has the benefit of third person intimate. But D&D are just not thinking about story.

Take Sam and Gilly. A way to give those scenes some oomph would have been to recognise that the key focus of those scenes were about Sam nicking Heartsbane. So why not have him disclose this to Gilly in the wheelhouse and say "We are not staying. Keep quiet at dinner. I'm going to take what's rightfully mine."

That then would explain Sam's silence in the face of his father's words, proves he actually has some mettle, proves a bit of dramatic tension -- because we all know about Sam's ulterior motive and are wondering what he will take and whether he will get caught. Then you could even do a nice little emotive scene where his mother catches him nicking the sword but looks the other way and tells him to take gold from his father's study for Gilly and the baby.        

[Ninerings]

On May 30, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Johnimus said:

I guess this belongs in here, though I'm not usually a big fan of this thread. TV adaptations are always going to have problems, especially when the source material is so vast - editorial choices are always going to infuriate hardcore fans, even when made with the best intentions. I tend to see the show as completely separate from the books, and judge it on its own merits (and I admit it, I watched the show first, then read the books, so I guess I approached the books as being a fascinating extension of a story I initially knew the outlines of from television).

That said, it drives me crazy when a show breaks from it's own established rules. One example last night was so egregious that I feel I have to post it here. 

 

 

This! This needs to be in the OP!

[Cas Stark]

49 minutes ago, sarah.jenice said:

For some reason, I fully expected her to continue with Drogo's rally speech and include raping all the women and taking the children as slaves. As the stars look down in witness. 

That would have been awesome.

[YOVMO]

On May 30, 2016 at 8:25 PM, LulaMae Barnes said:

And before it even starts: I am looking forward to see where Baelish is teleporting himself to this time. I bet: Kings Landing.

And while everyone thinks Benjen (which D&D will somehow mash up with Coldhands) will come to rescue Bran & Meera - I do hope it will be Gendry. Just because there is no logic anyway....

Old Benjen Kenobi has to be the absolute worst. How can a character that rich be ripped t shreds so badly? While on it, does arya even have a character arc anymore? Oh yeah, and apparently no one cares hodor is dead. Like Hodor died last night saving my crippled ass by holding a door which was in a tree for some reason. FTW. Retard anyway. Oh and while we are at it, where are Dany's other dragons? Presumably with Littlefinger and the sand snakes in Gendry's stealth row boat. And WTF wights. Jaffer Flowers nearly took out Mormont, Jon and a dire wolf. Now they break if you look at them wrong.

 

Oh and sam...well done. Leave a celibate organization to go to an all mens school and join another celibate organization. Bring your girlfriend who you have already admitted to the lord commander your are boning and swing by home and steal your fathers priceless ancestral sword. So I assume at some point everyone with Valyrian steel will get to get together for a ridiculous fight against the undead. It will be Edric Dayne who may or may not have Dawn, one of the two swords wielded by his famous uncle Arthur Dayne Swords of the Morning, Jon with longclaw, sam with Heartsbane, Briane with Oathbreaker and, oh I don't know, what is the dumbest thing i can think of.....maybe undead catelyn will show up with the Valerian Streel dagger that cut her hand, a huge R+L=J face palm and going the party.

 

At this point the show would be better if instead of d&d it was written by Hodor and Orson Lannister.

 

I think that's all for now.

[Stark_Contrast]

I would like to rant against Bran for being such a spoilt brat. First Jojen Reed died for him and he didn't even mention the fact. Then he mindraped Hodor into sacrificing himself and not a thought of regret or even thankfulness for the heroic gentle giant who by the way had to endure spending most his life as a disabled person thanks to Brans own incompence as a time traveller. And to top it all Meera then single handedly saved the asshole without a word of recognition. (Not that ever got any thanks for leading the entrie campaign uncalled for.)  And by the way, how about some accolades for the accomplishment of killing a white walker as well, the first woman to do so for at least 8000 years, possibly ever.

[sarah.jenice]

22 hours ago, Stark_Contrast said:

And I thought Arya was a smart girl. What kind of work did she think a contract killer would do?

Sweep floors?

[Prince of the North]

31 minutes ago, sarah.jenice said:

Sweep floors?

Beat apprentices with a stick?

[sweetsunray]

42 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Beat apprentices with a stick?

For some reason Show-Arya is starting to make me think of a Jalapeño on a ... stiiiiiiick!

[Meera of Tarth]

2 hours ago, YOVMO said:

Old Benjen Kenobi has to be the absolute worst. How can a character that rich be ripped t shreds so badly? While on it, does arya even have a character arc anymore? Oh yeah, and apparently no one cares hodor is dead. Like Hodor died last night saving my crippled ass by holding a door which was in a tree for some reason. FTW. Retard anyway. Oh and while we are at it, where are Dany's other dragons? Presumably with Littlefinger and the sand snakes in Gendry's stealth row boat. And WTF wights. Jaffer Flowers nearly took out Mormont, Jon and a dire wolf. Now they break if you look at them wrong.

 

Oh and sam...well done. Leave a celibate organization to go to an all mens school and join another celibate organization. Bring your girlfriend who you have already admitted to the lord commander your are boning and swing by home and steal your fathers priceless ancestral sword. So I assume at some point everyone with Valyrian steel will get to get together for a ridiculous fight against the undead. It will be Edric Dayne who may or may not have Dawn, one of the two swords wielded by his famous uncle Arthur Dayne Swords of the Morning, Jon with longclaw, sam with Heartsbane, Briane with Oathbreaker and, oh I don't know, what is the dumbest thing i can think of.....maybe undead catelyn will show up with the Valerian Streel dagger that cut her hand, a huge R+L=J face palm and going the party.

 

At this point the show would be better if instead of d&d it was written by Hodor and Orson Lannister.

 

I think that's all for now.

The other dragons belong to Tyrion.

[YOVMO]

6 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

The other dragons belong to Tyrion.

By virtue of him telling them a story and then, presumably, getting in Gendry's row boat I assume.

[Meera of Tarth]

Just now, YOVMO said:

By virtue of him telling them a story and then, presumably, getting in Gendry's row boat I assume.

Tyrion is the Father of Dragons

[YOVMO]

Just now, Meera of Tarth said:

Tyrion is the Father of Dragons

lol

 

crossbow in one hand other hand fist pumping while he yells "yayyyyyy" like in the never ending story

[Ruhail]

"Father of dragons, son of virtue and truth!"

[The Knight in Motley]

On 5/30/2016 at 3:09 PM, Future Null Infinity said:

Please someone give an answer to this : Danny have the population of meereen, 8000 unsullied , thousands of dothraki and yet she can't build 1000 ships to sail to westeros and yet she asked who has 1000 ships, what logic is that? my head will explode 

Do you have any idea how much resources it takes to build 1000 ships, let alone how long it would take?  Merreen doesn't have much in the way of natural resources from what we can see.  I mean St. Tyrion can't just order all the old Master's Houses to go off and build 1000 ships out of thin air.

Dany's best bet is to make some kind of marriage alliance for ships.  I'm surprised no one has considered offering her ships to leave already. 

[storm.131]

8 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I just googled Castell de Santa Florentina and it definitely looks much better (and way more as a castle) than that pseudo-greek-something CGI thing. It doesn't even look like a fort that you would be able to defend against enemies.

Yep, it looked like a royal palace not a defensive fortress.

[TickTak7]

3 hours ago, Stark_Contrast said:

I would like to rant against Bran for being such a spoilt brat. First Jojen Reed died for him and he didn't even mention the fact. Then he mindraped Hodor into sacrificing himself and not a thought of regret or even thankfulness for the heroic gentle giant who by the way had to endure spending most his life as a disabled person thanks to Brans own incompence as a time traveller. And to top it all Meera then single handedly saved the asshole without a word of recognition. (Not that ever got any thanks for leading the entrie campaign uncalled for.)  And by the way, how about some accolades for the accomplishment of killing a white walker as well, the first woman to do so for at least 8000 years, possibly ever.

In Bran's defense though, he's seemed pretty clueless and lost throughout this whole saga about where he's going, what he's meant to do, etc. 

I would place more blame on the Three-Eyed Raven, to be honest. 

Surely lesson #1 to accessing wierwood.net should have been to not get touched by the Night's King? A proper explanation of the magic that protects them and why the NK would be able to get in? 

Plus - if we assume that the 3ER knew about the impending attack on the tree by the White Walkers, why not inform Bran? Or hurry his training? Or warm him, mid-dream, what he needed to do? Save Summer? etc. 

Bran has caused a lot of death and destruction, but much of it isn't really his fault. 

[storm.131]

On 30 May 2016 at 2:23 AM, Johnimus said:

I guess this belongs in here, though I'm not usually a big fan of this thread. TV adaptations are always going to have problems, especially when the source material is so vast - editorial choices are always going to infuriate hardcore fans, even when made with the best intentions. I tend to see the show as completely separate from the books, and judge it on its own merits (and I admit it, I watched the show first, then read the books, so I guess I approached the books as being a fascinating extension of a story I initially knew the outlines of from television).

That said, it drives me crazy when a show breaks from it's own established rules. One example last night was so egregious that I feel I have to post it here. 

Is Kevan Lannister a zealot like his son now?

THANK YOU!  Not just in terms of the completely illogical Kevan Lannister character 180 degree turn but everything in the show that doesn't add up or changes without explanation.  Like you, I don't expect the show to be 100% faithful to the books but it does need be faithful to its own history and precedents.

Take the way the wights and White Walkers were initially clumsy and primitive, then they suddenly changed and gained extra powers.  I could buy the original characters because I wouldn't have expected such primitive beings to be able to figure out a way to get through or around the wall.

However, I can't take any of the scenes involving this new army of the dead seriously because no amount of impressive CGI can blind me to the fact that it just doesn't make sense that anyone could possibly get away from a flood of murderous agile zombies and their ruthless leaders with untold powers.  Yet, our heroes repeatedly escape and with all their amazing powers the White Walkers can't figure out a way to get south of the wall...