(SPOILERS) Criticise Without Reprecussion - Rant & Tear apart

[Meera of Tarth]

Furthermore, if Brienne doesn't have a sword, she won't be able to kill as muany men she is accustomed to!!!

She will feel naked

[SerMixalot]

Brienne has lied to Sansa, "killed" Sandor, has Sansa's father's sword and doesn't tell her about it, has a Lannister Sword-what with the lion hilt and rubies and all.  How again is she a friend of the Starks?

[Mikeygigs]

Why does Randal Tarly, from the Reach care so much about Gilly being a Wildling? The Seven Kingdoms have pretty much left the Wall alone. The Starks fought the Wildlings, along with the Nights' Watch. Does not make sense, really.

And why did he go into a huge speech about Heartsbane and Sam inheriting Horn Hill if he was a sworn brother of the Night's Watch (he's disinheritied, so why bother)? I know why the writer's did it, but why did the character do it?

Also, what was the logic behind the 'he can bloody well try" line? How could Sam possible stop his father from getting his sword back?

Walder Frey scene was okay. The character was consistent, at least, but its just a weird time to put this plot into the story. Why have the Blackfish 'retake' Riverrun now when they could have had the Blackfish resisting the Freys from Riverrrun this entire time? Its just an odd story decision, but honestly, it wasn't too bad (all things considering).

Jamie leaving the King's guard is long time coming.Killed his first king, let the other die, let another die, let the king's sister die after a botched rescue mission. Totally makes sense. I guess he's the lord of Casterly Rock now?

Bran not mentioning Summer is lame as hell. Sorry, but this is something that should have been mentioned immediately. Summer was his other half, not just a pet, and Bran was the only Stark that was shown able to warg.

High septon-Margery-Tommen stuff is really weird, too. Its not interesting, its non-sensical, and its just boring.

Also, apparently Danearys can sense her dragons the way the Starks should be able to sense their Direwolves, and she needs exactly 1000 ships to take her army to Westeros. Speech was lame. All of it was weaksauce.

[SerMixalot]

Its like someone in Chile upset over a border dispute between Vermont and New Hampshire

[Le Cygne]

5 hours ago, LadySoftheart said:

(To be fair, Jon does have Longclaw and Sansa is hardly going to wield a Valyrian sword so who should Brienne give it to, though?)

Sandor. And Stranger should bite off her ear. Payback.

[SerMixalot]

If Brienne were honorable, she would lay Oathkeeper at Sansa's feet and give it to her. Starks would want their property back

[Mikeygigs]

23 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Its like someone in Chile upset over a border dispute between Vermont and New Hampshire

Upset is somewhat believable. I can see a reaction like that to an extent.

But why was he friggin' pissed off? So pissed that he broke into a tirade about how awful the Wildlings are and how Sam dishonored House Tarley and how he'll never inherit anything. Um, he's going to be a Maester for the Night's Watch. Really don't need to worry about that.

Do not get it, at all.

Also, allow me to hate on the preview of Episode 7 for a moment: Sansa's lines, depending on the context, are super lame.

Others may have said it first, but her 'I did what I had to to survive,' and 'I'll always be a Stark,' line is such BS in the show.

She literally chose to marry and become a Bolton. No one forced it on her. She didn't do what she had to to survive, she was trying to play the game of thrones by allowing herself to be married into the family of her enemies. Of course she was a victim, but the suggestion that she had no choice is a stupid retcon that exists solely to fix their own stupid story decisions.

If I were a Northman, I certainly would not follow Sansa Bolton to Winterfell. Either she's an idiot, or she's a traitor.

Anyway, I expect much raging next Sunday regarding these scenes.

[Future Null Infinity]

We must give Bryan Cogman a prize for his genius writing :

• S05E06 : the shittiest episode in the show
• S06E06 : the shittiest motivational speech in the show by Danny

or maybe they must don't let him write any sixth episode from now on?

[LadySoftheart]

1 hour ago, SerMixalot said:

 If Brienne were honorable, she would lay Oathkeeper at Sansa's feet and give it to her. Starks would want their property back

 Sansa doesn't honestly seem overly concerned with the Starks as a familial group so much as getting her revenge on Ramsay for what he did to her personally (rather than for the role of the Boltons in betraying the Starks as a group.) A few examples: she's not sending Brienne to look for Arya; neither she nor Jon seem to have talked about the fact that Bran is alive; and if she truly wanted to save Rickon expeditiously, why would she turn down LF's Vale Army in favor of the roundabout routes of getting Northern lords and a force from Riverrun. She may not want to "owe" Littlefinger but even leaving aside the issue of whether Sansa could directly appeal to Sweetrobin and the Vale lords (which I think she could) shouldn't her concern be less about "owing" anyone and more about "rescuing my brother from the clutches of a sadistic monster with whose worst impulses I am deeply familiar?" Wow, I didn't know I could get angrier about that LF/Sansa scene but I just did. 

As for whether Brienne should have laid the sword at Sansa's feet, I feel like she did that when she pledged herself to Sansa. This isn't a debate thread so I'll confine myself to just saying that. 

However, I question the show's reasoning behind Oathkeeper being Brienne's at all. In the books, the sword is the symbol of Jaime's honor, that he has pledged to her - and that he has named for her. And the tragic irony is that Oathkeeper - which she is using to keep her oaths! - is part of the "case" the BwB build against her for being an Oathbreaker and Lannister stooge, because no one just up and GIVES you a Valyrian steel sword. So the "magic" sword, this princely gift, ends up being the word that Brienne shouts to save Pod and maybe the thing that she used to destroy the man she has come to love. 

NONE of this, not one single part, is true on the show. The only thing the sword did was to make Arya and Sandor mistrust Brienne; otherwise, it has passed entirely without comment everywhere else AND Brienne has not once actually thought of the guy who gave it to her. (I mean, seriously they could have had her look at the lions head on the pommel or something but nope ...) I wouldn't be surprised if the writers have just completely forgotten who gave Brienne the sword and that it was reforged from Ice in the first place. They were too busy coming up with those scenes where Tormund makes Brienne visibly uncomfortable and filming (though thankfully not actually including) a scene where Sansa teases Brienne about Tormund. No time for Brienne to talk about her sword or why Jaime gave it to her!

[Le Cygne]

Apparently it gets even worse, Fansa tells Jon that Rickon is already dead, in other words, she already gave up on him just because Ramsay had him. But she escaped. And of course, the whole storyline is absurd, she took revenge on herself and now wants... revenge. 

[Rubicante]

I still don't understand why Sansa went to Winterfell in season 5 in the first place.  What exactly was it she was hoping to accomplish?

[Mikeygigs]

Just now, Rubicante said:

I still don't understand why Sansa went to Winterfell in season 5 in the first place.  What exactly was it she was hoping to accomplish?

No idea.

Absolutely makes no sense. 'Get revenge for your family by marrying into the family that killed your family!'

Instead of having her try to build alliances in the Vale, or the North (ya know, build into her role as future leader in the North), they writers shoe-horned her into the Jeyne Poole story because...(see my signature)

[Rubicante]

4 minutes ago, Mikeygigs said:

No idea.

Absolutely makes no sense. 'Get revenge for your family by marrying into the family that killed your family!'

Instead of having her try to build alliances in the Vale, or the North (ya know, build into her role as future leader in the North), they writers shoe-horned her into the Jeyne Poole story because...(see my signature)

Is the quote in your signature actually what D & D said in relation to them doing this story line?  That's frighteningly insane if it is.

I find Sansa's current presence in the show in the North to be offensive. 

One, she is taking away from Jon's story.  There was pretty much no follow up to his resurrection at all.  If you were a show watcher, and you missed the finale of season 5 and the first three episodes of season 6, you would probably have no idea he was ever even killed and resurrected.

Secondly, she wasn't the person in the books to rally the northern houses.  That role fell to Stannis, who was able to do it by following Jon's advice.  This whole story line just continues to remind me of how badly Stannis' character was butchered in the show.

 

 

[Mikeygigs]

2 minutes ago, Rubicante said:

Is the quote in your signature actually what D & D said in relation to them doing this story line?  That's frighteningly insane if it is.

I find Sansa's current presence in the show in the North to be offensive. 

One, she is taking away from Jon's story.  There was pretty much no follow up to his resurrection at all.  If you were a show watcher, and you missed the finale of season 5 and the first three episodes of season 6, you would probably have no idea he was ever even killed and resurrected.

Secondly, she wasn't the person in the books to rally the northern houses.  That role fell to Stannis, who was able to do it by following Jon's advice.  This whole story line just continues to remind me of how badly Stannis' character was butchered in the show.

No, this was a few years ago. However, its pretty good quote when you want to understand their writing process and story decisions.

I agree with the rest. The worst sin of all is that, all-in-all, these decisions really just make for a bland, uninteresting story. I can understand changing the story for adaptation purposes, but when your adaptation choices aren't even interesting are entertaining you have failed as a writer.

[Stark_Contrast]

47 minutes ago, Mikeygigs said:

No idea.

Absolutely makes no sense. 'Get revenge for your family by marrying into the family that killed your family!'

Instead of having her try to build alliances in the Vale, or the North (ya know, build into her role as future leader in the North), they writers shoe-horned her into the Jeyne Poole story because...(see my signature)

Yes. Mindboggling. Even Sansa would understand that the chances of her having a good life as Mrs Bolton are very slim, and after producing an heir or two she will get offed since Stark loyalism will always be alooming threat to the new Bolton hegemony. And what purpose does her incredible sacrifice serve? Only negative! It HELPS the enemies of the Starks by legitimizing them. (Although, while the marriage is idiotic on Sansa's part it is also a stupid move by the Boltons: they gain support by the Northern lords, but they seem to already have that support and the said lords don't seem to exist anyway. But they lose the support of the crown/Lannisters since Sansa is wanted for kinslaying, and Roose risked everything for that support. Why didn't he lose the Warden of the North title, by the way, and how could Ramsay inherit it?) Youch.

[Ser Quork]

2 hours ago, Rubicante said:

Is the quote in your signature actually what D & D said in relation to them doing this story line?  That's frighteningly insane if it is.

I find Sansa's current presence in the show in the North to be offensive. 

One, she is taking away from Jon's story.  There was pretty much no follow up to his resurrection at all.  If you were a show watcher, and you missed the finale of season 5 and the first three episodes of season 6, you would probably have no idea he was ever even killed and resurrected.

Secondly, she wasn't the person in the books to rally the northern houses.  That role fell to Stannis, who was able to do it by following Jon's advice.  This whole story line just continues to remind me of how badly Stannis' character was butchered in the show.

 

 

They said it about skipping Tyrion's slavery for the early meeting of Dany and Tyrion - you know, "I am the gift."  The Almighty Cheese.

Anyway, I agree with you.  The Northern plotlines (The Wall and Winterfell) were my favourites from the books; I can't abide the show scenes now.  Why do they think I'm interested in Jon accessorising Fansa's nonsensical plot?  There are not enough tantrum emoticons for how much I hate their changes.

 

[Neds Secret]

2 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Apparently it gets even worse, Fansa tells Jon that Rickon is already dead, in other words, she already gave up on him just because Ramsay had him. But she escaped. And of course, the whole storyline is absurd, she took revenge on herself and now wants... revenge. 

Because show Sansa is quite literally an idiot!! That's all there is to it! And before everybody goes nuts I want to separate that show Sansa from book Sansa because they are two completely different characters, totally! ShownSansa just continues to prove it by knocking back the Knights of the Vales assistance in taking Winterfell, so selfish, all about her, Rickons in the dungeon as they speak, knowing what Ramsay might be doing she should have done everything possible to save him but she chose to punish littlefinger at Rickons expense, to me that cannot be defended!

[Le Cygne]

5 hours ago, Neds Secret said:

Because show Sansa is quite literally an idiot!! That's all there is to it! And before everybody goes nuts I want to separate that show Sansa from book Sansa because they are two completely different characters, totally! ShownSansa just continues to prove it by knocking back the Knights of the Vales assistance in taking Winterfell, so selfish, all about her, Rickons in the dungeon as they speak, knowing what Ramsay might be doing she should have done everything possible to save him but she chose to punish littlefinger at Rickons expense, to me that cannot be defended!

Fansa is doing what Brienne the Brute did to her, putting personal revenge before saving someone in need. And lying about it.

They could have taken LF prisoner, or better yet, killed him, and claimed the Vale army to rescue Rickon. Sweetrobin said he's doing it for his cousin, so just show up and say here I am, his cousin, let's go rescue his other cousin. Just lie and say they were ambushed, and LF died. Lie for good reason, to save an innocent life.

[Neds Secret]

7 hours ago, Mikeygigs said:

Why does Randal Tarly, from the Reach care so much about Gilly being a Wildling? The Seven Kingdoms have pretty much left the Wall alone. The Starks fought the Wildlings, along with the Nights' Watch. Does not make sense, really.

And why did he go into a huge speech about Heartsbane and Sam inheriting Horn Hill if he was a sworn brother of the Night's Watch (he's disinheritied, so why bother)? I know why the writer's did it, but why did the character do it?

Also, what was the logic behind the 'he can bloody well try" line? How could Sam possible stop his father from getting his sword back?

Walder Frey scene was okay. The character was consistent, at least, but its just a weird time to put this plot into the story. Why have the Blackfish 'retake' Riverrun now when they could have had the Blackfish resisting the Freys from Riverrrun this entire time? Its just an odd story decision, but honestly, it wasn't too bad (all things considering).

Jamie leaving the King's guard is long time coming.Killed his first king, let the other die, let another die, let the king's sister die after a botched rescue mission. Totally makes sense. I guess he's the lord of Casterly Rock now?

Bran not mentioning Summer is lame as hell. Sorry, but this is something that should have been mentioned immediately. Summer was his other half, not just a pet, and Bran was the only Stark that was shown able to warg.

High septon-Margery-Tommen stuff is really weird, too. Its not interesting, its non-sensical, and its just boring.

Also, apparently Danearys can sense her dragons the way the Starks should be able to sense their Direwolves, and she needs exactly 1000 ships to take her army to Westeros. Speech was lame. All of it was weaksauce.

Excellent points!

[Le Cygne]

5 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

They said it about skipping Tyrion's slavery for the early meeting of Dany and Tyrion - you know, "I am the gift."  The Almighty Cheese.

Anyway, I agree with you.  The Northern plotlines (The Wall and Winterfell) were my favourites from the books; I can't abide the show scenes now.  Why do they think I'm interested in Jon accessorising Fansa's nonsensical plot?  There are not enough tantrum emoticons for how much I hate their changes.

Indeed, Jon lost his story, he's just standing around gaping while Fansa drives the action with her revenge obsession. Fansa's story is all about rape. Jon's story is all about propping her up. She's not even the right sister, they had to swap in Olly because no way would his last thought be about Sansa instead of Arya.

So no exploration of Jon's amazing resurrection, and what that means to him. Hell, his parentage, which is pretty amazing, is slowly being revealed, but for some reason, his sister, who he had absolutely nothing to do with, who reminds him of his stepmother, is now front and center, bossing him around.

And the battle of the bastards is the battle of the super villains. Ramsay vs. LF...