Is Dany becoming a megalomaniac? Is Bran?

[Liuko]

(Please forgive the dramatic title.)

SUMMARY: Dany and Bran are both riding the "If I can, I should" train, and because 1. They're super-powered, 2. They keep "winning", and 3. They have no living mentors, there's no one to check their ambitions. Are both cruising for a bruising? Is the world?

LONG POST:

"You're a conqueror, Daenerys Stormborn." "I take what is mine."

That consolidation of power, ownership, and destiny into a single logic of entitlement made me ill-at-ease. Of course Dany can claim the Iron Throne is rightfully hers: the Targaryens were the royal family and the Baratheons the usurpers. But Astapor, Yunkai and Meereen were not hers to interfere with: bottom line, she took them because she could.

This is very like the Ned/Littlefinger logic of "That's treason/Only if we lose". Has she lost at Astapor, Dany would have been known as another greedy invader, but she keeps winning. And because she keeps winning, the sense that she is supposed to win, that conquering everything in her reach is as it's supposed to be, keeps growing. Might and right become cyclical, reinforcing each other out of proportion.

Bran isn't conquering countries, but he's developing the same sort of relationship between his greensight/skinchanging/telepathy abilities and the amount he can control the world. The fact that he has powers communicates that he's important, more important (apparently) than Hodor (:( ) and now there's no one with greater powers or greater authority who can prod him to think about how to use them responsibly. "I can force Hodor to make sure Meera and I escape safely, so I will." That got me - that's the moment in Greek drama when Oedipus realizes the tragedy is entirely his fault and sets about atoning. No such response from Bran. 

[Woman of War]

I only can talk about Dany because I felt rather troubled. Bear in mind that her character is definitely one of my favorites 

When Dany made her stirring speech I got the vibe of Hitler's Sportpalast Total War Speech. Here she is not the breaker of chains but the conqueror of a continent. Westeros has as much use for her as for any High Lord or Lady or for any High House, be it Lannister, Targaeryen, Stark or Tyrell. She brings war to people who have not waited for her nor any other ruler but who care about their children surviving, about harvest, rain and sun, paraphrasing Jorah.

Hitler made his speech before a carefully selected audience who was certain to cheer for his total war.. Dany here does not promise freedom to slaves but instrumentalises a people for her cause, feeding them lunatic ideas of greatness. See the similarities.

	"I ask you: Do you want total war? If necessary, do you want a war more total and radical than anything that we can even yet imagine? [......] Now, people rise up and let the storm break loose!" Feb 18, 1943

Only I believe and I hope that Dany herself will learn her lesson and will turn all her force against the real enemy. We all hope that but in that speech terror came with a beautiful face.

[Faereth]

With regards to Bran forcing Hodor to hold the door, apparently he didn't. Read an article of interview questions with Krisitian Nairn (Hodor actor) who said at the end it was Meera who asked Hodor to hold the door, and it was his decision to do so - Bran wasn't warging him then. 

[ummester]

What do you mean is Dany becoming a megalomaniac  She has been on that path for at least 4 seasons now, probably 5.

Bran, meh, I don't know - he's a broken boy with lots of mental power - I'm sure he is going to unleash the fury of the Nights King on the Lannisters (ie the Iron Throne) when he finally remembers who pushed him.

[Tywinelle]

35 minutes ago, Woman of War said:

I only can talk about Dany because I felt rather troubled. Bear in mind that her character is definitely one of my favorites 

When Dany made her stirring speech I got the vibe of Hitler's Sportpalast Total War Speech.

OMG I felt the same way and thought of Hitler too.  The difference is of course that she has a politically correct agenda but the fact remains that she's forcing her values and beliefs on everyone else.  It would be poetic justice if the Dothraki helped her win the Iron Throne but then one of them turned on her and claimed the throne for himself.

[ummester]

The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

[Not a kneeler]

Bran has a mission given to him by BR,  quite a different position than Dany who has a sense of entitlement that was fostered in her by the death of her brother. Before that she was a sweet young girl, but gradually we see her focused on what she is entitled to because she is Daenerys Stormborn, Breaker of chains, Mother of Dragons, yada, yada. I have certainly been disturbed by her facial expressions in her last two segments: waiting to burn the khals to death and now stirring up her storm troopers. This is not the valiant little girl we saw in season 1. This is a cruel conqueror and if I saw her coming I would try to put 1000 miles between her and me. She is not going to save the world. She will see it burn unless it worships at her feet.

[blckp]

nah

Sansa and Jon megalomaniac for trying to take winterfell? as rightful heir and gathering army,?

or Yara or Tully?

[Woman of War]

21 minutes ago, Tywinelle said:

OMG I felt the same way and thought of Hitler too.  The difference is of course that she has a politically correct agenda but the fact remains that she's forcing her values and beliefs on everyone else.  It would be poetic justice if the Dothraki helped her win the Iron Throne but then one of them turned on her and claimed the throne for himself.

I believe Dany will refrain from fighting for the Throne in time before she devastates Westeros by imported total war, she will come to her senses and turn against the danger from the North. The destroyed Red Keep and the burnt throne room she will find quasi on her way back from being a hero up there, she would not even have to fight for getting that seat since there won't be any resistance. But she won't want it anymore.

[Hangover of the Morning]

I wonder what Dany's plan for the Dothraki is (or the Unsullied for that matter) once they help her reclaim the IT? Will she just give them riches and ship them back to Essos or will she give them lands and free rein in Westeros?

[Drz]

Yeah it's going to be interested what on earth will happen to both the Wildlings and Dothraki, they either have to be subjugated or they're just gonna continue their rapish ways.

The whole war for the Iron Throne is making everyone a villain, just look at Sansa Stark's war for Winterfell. She withheld information from Jon and others, she's willing to have more northern people and wildlings die in an upcoming battle than already have the Vale Knights mustered and known.

Winterfell could have been conqueror with intimidation, having someone on the inside just backstab Ramsay with an outside force so fierce, but no, Sansa is willing to have countless people die for the sake of her just cause.

[ummester]

2 minutes ago, Drz said:

The whole war for the Iron Throne is making everyone a villain

Exactly - glad someone else sees it. And it's been heading that way from the start. Honour died with Ned, literally and figuratively - it's been all downhill from there.

I don't think it's a mistake the show is called Game of Thrones, rather than a Song of Ice and Fire.

[Ludo Kressh]

21 minutes ago, Hangover of the Morning said:

I wonder what Dany's plan for the Dothraki is (or the Unsullied for that matter) once they help her reclaim the IT? Will she just give them riches and ship them back to Essos or will she give them lands and free rein in Westeros?

Daario and Jorah would like to know too. Yeah, she's riled them up, but they aren't going to settle down and make homes in Westeros. I could see her sending them back to maintain her control in Essos, but that would leave her somewhat vulnerable in Westeros. Her whole plan(if you can call it that) doesn't make much sense and I think she'll make it back to Westeros, but she'll never seat the Iron Throne or rule the Seven Kingdoms.

[RoamingRonin]

First reply invokes Godwin's Law. That escalated quickly.

40 minutes ago, blckp said:

nah

Sansa and Jon megalomaniac for trying to take winterfell? as rightful heir and gathering army,?

or Yara or Tully?

Is was Stannis? 

Considering Westeros is ruled by the scum of the Earth at this point, Dany can sweep the seven kingdoms clean. Bring out the good guys and let the bad ones burn. Or will we all weep for Ramsay Bolton, Lord Frey and Littlefinger? 

[blckp]

16 hours ago, RoamingRonin said:

First reply invokes Godwin's Law. That escalated quickly.

Is was Stannis? 

Considering Westeros is ruled by the scum of the Earth at this point, Dany can sweep the seven kingdoms clean. Bring out the good guys and let the bad ones burn. Or will we all weep for Ramsay Bolton, Lord Frey and Littlefinger? 

i would love to see that,

i think LF will control vale and North end of this season , Euron iron isles and part of the reach, Lannisters the west and riverland

[Hangover of the Morning]

3 minutes ago, Ludo Kressh said:

Daario and Jorah would like to know too. Yeah, she's riled them up, but they aren't going to settle down and make homes in Westeros. I could see her sending them back to maintain her control in Essos, but that would leave her somewhat vulnerable in Westeros. Her whole plan(if you can call it that) doesn't make much sense and I think she'll make it back to Westeros, but she'll never seat the Iron Throne or rule the Seven Kingdoms.

I can see the sellswords getting lands, holdfasts and castles and the Unsullied either that as well or been offered a position in her personal army. The Dothraki would have to completely change their culture (settle down and start herding cattle or growing crops) if they'd want to stay in Westeros. Not very likely. Agree, that Dany likely hasn't thought that far ahead. 

There's a really good chance that she'll be seen as (or possibly even turn into) a villain for awhile during the conquest. 

I think she might sit the IT briefly or get close only to be stopped by the WW invasion. She will probably help with the fight against them but will decided to go back to Essos afterwards. 

[dariopatke]

50 minutes ago, blckp said:

nah

Sansa and Jon megalomaniac for trying to take winterfell? as rightful heir and gathering army,?

or Yara or Tully?

They arent, they would have been if  any of them claims 7 Kingdoms. And more importantly they all lost at least once.

[blckp]

16 hours ago, dariopatke said:

They arent, they would have been if  any of them claims 7 Kingdoms. And more importantly they all lost at least once.

if sansa and jons father was king of 7 kingdom they would try to take red castle instead of winterfell and the north

[dariopatke]

20 minutes ago, blckp said:

if sansa and jons father was king of 7 kingdom they would try to take red castle instead of winterfell and the north

But they wont invade Myr, Lys and Tyrosh because they dislike slavery without any idea how will those cities look tomorrow.

[blckp]

16 hours ago, dariopatke said:

But they wont invade Myr, Lys and Tyrosh because they dislike slavery without any idea how will those cities look tomorrow.

remember jon snow and casters sons?.. i bet they would help if they had encountered/ witnessed slavery and had might to help, (sansa might not,)