JGP Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 36 minutes ago, kairparavel said: Oh don't worry. Daily Mail in all their glory has that covered. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617016/EXCLUSIVE-PICTURES-parents-four-son-fell-zoo-enclosure-sparking-controversial-killing-Harambe-gorilla-emerges-father-lengthy-criminal-history.html?ito=social-twitter_DailyMailUS Just... wow. Kind of shit makes the old violence twitch and fuck with my zen. Also: -- On Monday, the zoo director insisted the horizontal barriers were secure and said: 'We take safety very seriously and we are keenly interested in improvement. 'Any of us could climb over barriers if we choose. As I said, you can lock your car or lock your house, but if someone wants to get in, they can.' --- Yup, that sounds secure. No reason to imagine any probability of a rambunctious child and/or an emotionally/mentally unbalanced adult could just decide to go shake hands or something. Like, think some kind of Board of Directors weighed the economic advantages of more open attractions against the offset of potential litigation and were all, yeah, this is within an acceptable range of risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 When I was 2 and a half my mother put me down for a nap. I remember this. I didn't want to take a nap. My toy box was under my bedroom window and the window slid open horizontally. I opened the window knocked out the screen; shimmed down a small ledge to a brick wall that shot out perpendicularly to the ledge I was walking down. I walked down the top of the wall to the clothes line pole that came close to the wall. I climbed to the pole slid down and went to the neighbor's back yard to play with their dog. After a while I came home and tried to get back up the pole. No luck so I knocked on the back door and scared my mother half to death. She asked me how I got out so I showed her. My toy box was moved from under the window immediately. Kids, small kids, are smart they can and do get away from their parents. Despite my earlier comments I don't think the parents should be shamed or prosecuted. I was wrong to jump on the blame bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorMakhnosLovechild Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 30 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: When I was 2 and a half my mother put me down for a nap. I remember this. I didn't want to take a nap. My toy box was under my bedroom window and the window slid open horizontally. I opened the window knocked out the screen; shimmed down a small ledge to a brick wall that shot out perpendicularly to the ledge I was walking down. I walked down the top of the wall to the clothes line pole that came close to the wall. I climbed to the pole slid down and went to the neighbor's back yard to play with their dog. After a while I came home and tried to get back up the pole. No luck so I knocked on the back door and scared my mother half to death. She asked me how I got out so I showed her. My toy box was moved from under the window immediately. Kids, small kids, are smart they can and do get away from their parents. Despite my earlier comments I don't think the parents should be shamed or prosecuted. I was wrong to jump on the blame bandwagon. That's... actually pretty impressive for a two and a half year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Nestor, I'm surprised by how vivid the memory is. The hard part was climbing the fence to get into the neighbor's yard to play with the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrddin Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Scot is really Bran weirwarged into our world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 45 minutes ago, Myrddin said: Scot is really Bran weirwarged into our world. If I was I'd have made it up that clothesline poll and my Mother would be ner the wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrackerNeil Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 22 hours ago, Ormond said: I would also agree that being overly condemnatory of either the zoo or the parents may be unwarranted. There are indeed rare flukey events that happen that could not reasonably have been anticipated. After something happens, the hindsight bias always makes it seem as if people "should" have been able to anticipate these events more than they actually were able to. And of course that's one reason why this incident is getting so much news coverage -- people expect ISIS to do horrible things. We don't expect zoo gorillas to be shot when children fall into their enclosures, precisely because it is so very rare. That's what makes it news. Yep. Bruce Schneier often says that the definition of news is "stuff that rarely happens." Let's not go all Bear Patrol here. An inquiry sounds warranted, but just because something went wrong doesn't necessarily mean that someone did something wrong. I've seen many people saying "Oh, the gorilla could have killed that child at any moment and the fact that he didn't means that he intended no harm." I don't find that persuasive. Animals are not 100% predictable creatures, and who can say what might have turned that silverback from rough into murderous. It's a terrible shame that the animal is dead over something like this, but I can't blame the emergency personnel for taking the shot. The stakes were too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 36 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said: Yep. Bruce Schneier often says that the definition of news is "stuff that rarely happens." Let's not go all Bear Patrol here. An inquiry sounds warranted, but just because something went wrong doesn't necessarily mean that someone did something wrong. I've seen many people saying "Oh, the gorilla could have killed that child at any moment and the fact that he didn't means that he intended no harm." I don't find that persuasive. Animals are not 100% predictable creatures, and who can say what might have turned that silverback from rough into murderous. It's a terrible shame that the animal is dead over something like this, but I can't blame the emergency personnel for taking the shot. The stakes were too high. Totally agree. Once the kid was in the enclosure, the staff had to secure his safety in the most expedient way possible. There are certainly other questions to be answered about everything that happened before that, but that part, while tragic, is pretty non controversial. That gorilla is still a wild animal, and you just can't bet the kids life that you are interpreting it's actions correctly. You pretty much have to err on the side of caution there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 LMFAO! The Youngenz are running wild lololol. In China a young boy demolishes a $15,000 Lego sculpture- http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/01/china/lego-statue-demolished-trnd/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 10 hours ago, TrackerNeil said: I've seen many people saying "Oh, the gorilla could have killed that child at any moment and the fact that he didn't means that he intended no harm." I don't find that persuasive. Animals are not 100% predictable creatures, and who can say what might have turned that silverback from rough into murderous. It's a terrible shame that the animal is dead over something like this, but I can't blame the emergency personnel for taking the shot. The stakes were too high. Those people would definitely sing a different tune if it was their child in the enclosure. In that case, guys with guns wouldn't be able to shoot the gorilla fast enough. Regarding boarders who commented on newsreaders piling on kid's mother while giving the father a free pass, I'd say it's more because it was the mother who gave statement to the media and it's her voice we heard on the video. At first it wasn't even stated that father was there so I wouldn't really call sexism on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liver and Onions Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 7 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said: LMFAO! The Youngenz are running wild lololol. In China a young boy demolishes a $15,000 Lego sculpture- http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/01/china/lego-statue-demolished-trnd/index.html Elsewhere I heard someone opine that the child was trying to give the life-size Nick Wylde a hug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liver and Onions Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 I've heard a lot of opinions on this story. I've heard the argument of breaking your kid's spirit with rules and harsh punishment for dangerous infractions vs. the importance of learning boundaries and consequences. Parenting is such a minefield that it's hard for me to judge. A friend following the story told me that witnesses supposedly overheard the boy telling his mother he wanted to go swim in the gorilla enclosure moat. I don't know if that's true. I wonder if I overheard a kid saying that to his mom, would I stop and tell him what that gorilla might do if he intruded in the animal's space? Would it frighten the child or just make him more curious? As for kids on leashes... I know it's wrong, but it's so tempting. My neighbor has two young kids, both mobile and at that age when they're learning boundaries and instructions. It's hard to keep both of them in the same area when playing outside, especially when verbal commands aren't immediately obeyed. Maybe leashing them to each other so at least they couldn't both go off in different directions... It's a pipe dream, though, and would contribute to lazy parenting- sitting around and ignoring your kid because he/she is on a leash and not going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 2, 2016 Share Posted June 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Mandy said: Kids can take those leashes off. Trust me I honestly feel like between 0-5 years my job as a parent was simply to keep the child alive. Because kids are just CONSTANTLY doing stuff that will get them killed between those years. Going outside is a nightmare. There's no enjoying a book while your kids play at a park; you're chasing your kid away from oncoming traffic of the nearby street unless the park is enclosed. Kids are INSANE. Or maybe it's just mine because... genetics, but I don't think it's just me. Well according the my mam I was a certified little shit as a child (I am of course, a completely delightful daughter now...) and caused all kinds of inexplicable mayhem so it's not just your kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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