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[TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

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On 5/30/2016 at 7:45 AM, BlueNightzx said:

given  that we now know that indeed euron has powers, its not so impossible to him having indeed gone to valyria, with the magic knowledge that he has and his priests and wizards, maybe outskirts of valyria at least or some outpost, not necessarily the heart of the smoking sea

Euron is defined by his madness, if there is anyone who can pull a quick trip to valyria, its him

I think that the Dragonbinder horn is directly related to the person wearing the Valyrian steel armor.  That is how Euron plans to control the dragons, regardless of who blows the horn.  I am guessing that the glyphs on the armor are the same spell, or a continuation of the spell that is carved into the horn.

Also, I think that Euron has a clearer path to KL than Aegon does, due to the Tyrell army on the war path to SE.  Even if the GC and Aegon win, that should be a long and bloody battle.  That would give Euron first crack at the IT, as well as possibly unify Dany and Aegon against a common enemy when/if Dany sails west.

One other thing I have been kicking around is greyscale.  It seems to me that greyscale has a huge part to play in this world.  Not only is it mentioned a gazillion times, we even got a first hand look at the Stone Men, and now a POV is actually infected.  My tin foil antenna has been going bonkers on this subject, but my best guess is that the greyscale becomes an epidemic in Westros during the Long Night, and that it ends up being some form of the Stone Men that actually defeat the Others.  that could be the bittersweet ending the GRRM has spoken of. 

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1 hour ago, No one is here said:

I think that the Dragonbinder horn is directly related to the person wearing the Valyrian steel armor.  That is how Euron plans to control the dragons, regardless of who blows the horn.  I am guessing that the glyphs on the armor are the same spell, or a continuation of the spell that is carved into the horn.

Also, I think that Euron has a clearer path to KL than Aegon does, due to the Tyrell army on the war path to SE.  Even if the GC and Aegon win, that should be a long and bloody battle.  That would give Euron first crack at the IT, as well as possibly unify Dany and Aegon against a common enemy when/if Dany sails west.

One other thing I have been kicking around is greyscale.  It seems to me that greyscale has a huge part to play in this world.  Not only is it mentioned a gazillion times, we even got a first hand look at the Stone Men, and now a POV is actually infected.  My tin foil antenna has been going bonkers on this subject, but my best guess is that the greyscale becomes an epidemic in Westros during the Long Night, and that it ends up being some form of the Stone Men that actually defeat the Others.  that could be the bittersweet ending the GRRM has spoken of. 

First, your idea about the Valyrian steel armor is great. I wouldn't be surprised if some version of your idea wasn't correct.

I don't know if Euron ends up on the IT before Aegon, but I wouldn't object. Of course, I'm someone who thinks Aegon is the one who will end up on the IT in the end.

I wouldn't be surprised if greyscale did end up as part of the whole mess. However, I think it will be on the other side of the equation. I think wights with greyscale will make it harder to kill them.

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10 hours ago, bent branch said:

First, your idea about the Valyrian steel armor is great. I wouldn't be surprised if some version of your idea wasn't correct.

I don't know if Euron ends up on the IT before Aegon, but I wouldn't object. Of course, I'm someone who thinks Aegon is the one who will end up on the IT in the end.

I wouldn't be surprised if greyscale did end up as part of the whole mess. However, I think it will be on the other side of the equation. I think wights with greyscale will make it harder to kill them.

I also believe that Aegon will eventually sit the IT.  I just think that Euron will get there first...if he doesn't go east after Vic instead.  That is a real possibility because we see him wearing the armor at the end of the Aerion chapter.  If the armor is a part of the Dragonbinder magic, then the reason he put it on could be because he is near the dragon(s) and the horn.  It is very difficult to get a feel for the amount of time that has passed from the beginning of the chapter until the point where Damp is brought to the deck of the ship.  It could be several weeks.  That would be enough time to reach Meereen (maybe?).  Just a bunch a speculation, I know.  But what else are we supposed to do until WoW is finally released?!

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On 1/1/2017 at 2:07 PM, AerionBrightflameII said:

I don't think The Hightowers would side with Euron. I could see Euron smashing the Redwyne Fleet at sea, it's possible that they might be able to raid OldTown but they just don't have the man power to hold it or defend it if they did. The reason The Ironmen are so difficult to beat is because of their tactics, surprise raids and melt away with their plunder. Full scale Land battles they'd be shattered.

 

Euron doesn't even seem interested in conquest, he's raided the Reach and been highly successful but that's only why The Tyrells were distracted, he seems aware that the Shields will be retaken at anytime. 

Why not?  The hightowers have tended to be pretty ruthless, ambitious, and they've shown an interest in magic.  Joining Euron could protect Oldtown from being raided, which could be ruinous even if the Ironborn are incapable of holding it permanently; and would let them combine their magic with his to put one of their own on the thrown again.  

If Euron feels confident that he can steal one of Dany's dragons with the knowledge in Oldtown & Hightower magic; then he doesn't need to marry Dany, or expend any men sacking Oldtown after he whips out the Redwyne fleet.  With the fleet destroyed and Oldtown joining their forces to Euron's, the Arbor could swiftly fall as well; giving Euron a significant foothold in the south that would actually be able to hold off the coming Tyrell armies forces for long enough for Euron to pick up his dragon and swing his men up the narrow sea

...beating Aegon into Kings Landing.  Then with Euron on the throne Aegon could nobly continue to fight to free the kingdom from the increasingly horrible monarchs they've suffered since the end of Targaryen rule...right up until Dany shows up to murder the balls off of him with her dragon, without even bothering to try to figure out whether he's her nephew or a blackfyre/bittersteel/brightflame imposter.

or more likely, Aegon will get enough the reacher lords like Rowan & Tarly to turn to his side, to wipe away Mace before marching right into Kings Landing and then having to deal with Euron...which leads to his getting dragon'd hard once again.

Edited by cgf

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I really think Euron has no interest in sitting the IT or even in Westeros. Euron's endgame is to rule a New Valyrian Empire with Dany as his bride and be treated like a god. I mean he'll take the throne if the opportunity arises but he wants so much more:

Quote

Impaled upon the longer spikes were the bodies of the gods. The Maiden was there and the Father and the Mother, the Warrior and Crone and Smith…even the Stranger. They hung side by side with all manner of queer foreign gods: the Great Shepherd and the Black Goat, three-headed Trios and the Pale Child Bakkalon, the Lord of Light and the butterfly god of Naath.

And there, swollen and green, half­-devoured by crabs, the Drowned God festered with the rest, seawater still dripping from his hair. Then, Euron Crow’s Eye laughed again, and the priest woke screaming in the bowels of Silence, as piss ran down his leg. It was only a dream, a vision born of foul black wine.

...and he's willing to sacrifice all of Westeros in the process. Euron is going to attempt to make a deal with the Others and then use the horn of winter to knock down the wall.  

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Posted (edited)

I reading ASOS again and Tyrion III is so good,Euron and Cersei is foreshadowed strongly here,also Varys reports about a Kraken and now krakens being mentioned on Arianne's chapter of WW I thing Euron plans to use Aeron and Falia to summon a Kraken maybe feed him with them and after that use the Kraken to destroy Redwine's fleet .

Edited by Rodx

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On 5/31/2017 at 0:23 AM, Rodx said:

I reading ASOS again and Tyrion III is so good,Euron and Cersei is foreshadowed strongly here,also Varys reports about a Kraken and now krakens being mentioned on Arianne's chapter of WW I thing Euron plans to use Aeron and Falia to summon a Kraken maybe feed him with them and after that use the Kraken to destroy Redwine's fleet .

Can you point to or Quote the Euron-Cersei foreshadowing? 

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Posted (edited)

A Tywin plan to marry Cersei to Balon is mentioned on Tyrion III of ASOS, can be a Foreshadow for the future, (She obiviously will not marry Balon because he is death,but still can happen with Euron) also, a Allegiance Lannister-Greyjoy is planted in A Clash Of Kings as well . (Balon send a letter to Tyrion to discuss this matter).

have some on Feast as well but I current rereading this book .

Edited by Rodx

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On 6/4/2016 at 9:48 AM, Lord Varys said:

Euron portrays himself as a living god when talking to Aeron, yes, but does this mean he himself actually believes that? Probably not. Aeron's dream image of Euron actually repeating or reinforcing what real Euron has said doesn't mean that Euron is causing those visions consciously. Just as me feeding somebody hallucinogenic drugs after I've taunted, mocked, and terrified him with certain things doesn't mean I directly cause his visions and dreams thereafter.

If Euron truly was seeing himself as a god his goons most likely wouldn't address him as 'Your Grace' but rather using 'Your Holiness' or 'Your Godhead' or some other ridiculous styling. Living gods are seldom modest, after all.

Well, his image is in Aeron, not he himself. The man is terribly afraid of his brother, and even more so after he confesses what he has done to Harlon, Robin, and Balon. Aeron sees the world from his religious perspective, and he has real troubles to cope with Euron's worldly success in light of his utter depravity. Not to mention that he still suffers from being abused by Euron as a child.

I am still wondering about this. I still think there is a possibility that Euron has learned how to enter men's dreams and influence visions, as the Undying Ones might have done to Daenerys. But Daenerys's visions in the House of the Undying Ones might not have been inspired by the Undying Ones. The only way we know that one man can enter the dreams of another and inspire visions is by being a greenseer (presumably plugged into the weirnet) or by using glass candles (which might only be a form of trippy communication. 

I dig your interpretation of Euron on the Iron Throne with the impaled gods as Aeron despairing to see that Euron is able to escape the wrath of gods. Does that suggest that the capering dwarves represent mankind? That Euron can defy gods and make men dance to his tune? 

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29 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I am still wondering about this. I still think there is a possibility that Euron has learned how to enter men's dreams and influence visions, as the Undying Ones might have done to Daenerys. But Daenerys's visions in the House of the Undying Ones might not have been inspired by the Undying Ones. The only way we know that one man can enter the dreams of another and inspire visions is by being a greenseer (presumably plugged into the weirnet) or by using glass candles (which might only be a form of trippy communication.

What dreams to you mean? The visions Dany sees when she talks with the Undying are created/sent by them. She asks them to show 'it' to her, after all. The other visions she sees while going through the house might be triggered merely by the shade of the evening. She gets two glimpses of the past (Aerys II and Rossart; Rhaegar, Elia, and Aegon), a symbolic depiction of the suffering of Westeros (presumably), and a vision from the future (the Red Wedding with dead Robb).

Considering how much shade of the evening Aeron has to drink we could easily enough assume that his dreams are simply figments of Aeron's fantasy/heightened imagination. I doubt Euron wants to manipulate Aeron's dreams with the shade of the evening. It is more likely that this is done in preparation for the later sacrifice. Or, perhaps, Euron's own twisted way to help Aeron's eyes so that he can see the world as he sees it. Euron seems to have tendency to help his brothers open their eyes. He tries the same thing with Victarion back in AFfC.

29 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I dig your interpretation of Euron on the Iron Throne with the impaled gods as Aeron despairing to see that Euron is able to escape the wrath of gods. Does that suggest that the capering dwarves represent mankind? That Euron can defy gods and make men dance to his tune? 

The dwarfs could be simply representative of Euron's thugs and followers. The people he uses and exploits to get what he wants. Just as the shadow-woman seems to be Aeron's way of imagining this dragon queen Euron is talking about. It could also be a partial hint of the future if it turns out that Euron ends up with Cersei.

But even Euron sitting the Iron Throne is not necessarily a true vision of the future. I could see it happening but I don't know when or how. If the Second Dance has Aegon vs. Daenerys Euron can sit the Iron Throne either a very short period prior to her arrival or take the Iron Throne while Dany-Aegon are occupied fighting each other some place else. 

Considering that a working Euron-Cersei alliance with the Westermen standing with them should take some time to establish I expect them to become only a real powerful force during the Second Dance. Although it is also very likely Euron is going to use his vast armada (perhaps together with the Three Daughters and the pirates from the Stepstones) to deal Daenerys a huge blow while she is trying to get her people across the Narrow Sea.

But somehow I have trouble seeing Euron-Cersei literally on the Iron Throne. They don't have to. Cersei should marshal troops back in the West, and if she opens the coffers of Casterly Rock and Lannisport for Euron the man could also be able to buy the allegiance of many of the coastal Reach lords who are not willing to bend the knee. And that should also help him with the pirates and the Three Daughters.

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34 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

What dreams to you mean? The visions Dany sees when she talks with the Undying are created/sent by them. She asks them to show 'it' to her, after all. The other visions she sees while going through the house might be triggered merely by the shade of the evening. She gets two glimpses of the past (Aerys II and Rossart; Rhaegar, Elia, and Aegon), a symbolic depiction of the suffering of Westeros (presumably), and a vision from the future (the Red Wedding with dead Robb).

Considering how much shade of the evening Aeron has to drink we could easily enough assume that his dreams are simply figments of Aeron's fantasy/heightened imagination. I doubt Euron wants to manipulate Aeron's dreams with the shade of the evening. It is more likely that this is done in preparation for the later sacrifice. Or, perhaps, Euron's own twisted way to help Aeron's eyes so that he can see the world as he sees it. Euron seems to have tendency to help his brothers open their eyes. He tries the same thing with Victarion back in AFfC.

The dwarfs could be simply representative of Euron's thugs and followers. The people he uses and exploits to get what he wants. Just as the shadow-woman seems to be Aeron's way of imagining this dragon queen Euron is talking about. It could also be a partial hint of the future if it turns out that Euron ends up with Cersei.

But even Euron sitting the Iron Throne is not necessarily a true vision of the future. I could see it happening but I don't know when or how. If the Second Dance has Aegon vs. Daenerys Euron can sit the Iron Throne either a very short period prior to her arrival or take the Iron Throne while Dany-Aegon are occupied fighting each other some place else. 

Considering that a working Euron-Cersei alliance with the Westermen standing with them should take some time to establish I expect them to become only a real powerful force during the Second Dance. Although it is also very likely Euron is going to use his vast armada (perhaps together with the Three Daughters and the pirates from the Stepstones) to deal Daenerys a huge blow while she is trying to get her people across the Narrow Sea.

But somehow I have trouble seeing Euron-Cersei literally on the Iron Throne. They don't have to. Cersei should marshal troops back in the West, and if she opens the coffers of Casterly Rock and Lannisport for Euron the man could also be able to buy the allegiance of many of the coastal Reach lords who are not willing to bend the knee. And that should also help him with the pirates and the Three Daughters.

I wonder if it's possible that Euron might aquire Tyrion and Penny before Tyrion hooks up with Daenerys, and whether Euron might give Tyrion to Cersei as a proposal gift? 

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I wonder if it's possible that Euron might aquire Tyrion and Penny before Tyrion hooks up with Daenerys, and whether Euron might give Tyrion to Cersei as a proposal gift? 

I doubt we'll see Euron approaching Cersei with an offer for an alliance. Cersei will do that, and she will bring all the gold of Casterly Rock as a dowry. Once Dany is declared dead/not coming Euron would be a complete moron not to ally with her. And Vic is not going to come back, either. Moqorro will see to that.

Tyrion is about as likely to fall into Euron's hands as Jon Snow, Dany herself, or Alysane Mormont. Distances count in that series.

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Some thoughts on the chapter.

It occured to me that Aeron instead of dreaming could well be delirious; and that Euron is actually present talking to him.

There is a vision of the ironborn ships broken and burning. That makes me think that whatever Euron is summoning is not going to discriminate between Redwyne's and Ironborn, I have little doubt that those on the front line of the battle, will be those who are less loyal to him and less inclined to ceaseless reaving.

I think Euron is a true nihilist. He doesn't seem interested in conquering or ruling, at least not in the traditional sense. Everything he wins, he gives away and he leaves chaos in his wake. He doesn't care about preserving them the ironborn strength, he left the Shields to fall, despite being strategic and he sent away his strongest fighting force, the Iron Fleet.IWe know he never intended to stick around in the first place. I think his idea is to make Westeros into a larger version of the Basilisk Islands, or he really believes the world ia ending and this is his idea of a party.

In that sense, the visions of him on the Iron Throne with the dwarves capering for his amusement, seems to me like a preview of the second dance, while Euron is left to run loose. Cersei by his side relishing the destruction, after she has lost her children and been ousted would fit.

He has already done a lot of damage, his activities have been a major blow the stability of the Tyrell/Lannister alliance.

I think Pree is the source of the spells and they have a weird alliance. Euron originally captured four warlocks, one became lunch and two are used as sacrifice. Which leaves one and that one is probably Pree. Who is probably the one who told him about Dany and her dragons in the first place.

And then there the sphinxes. They are not exclusive to the Citadel. Two Valyrian sphinxes stand besides the doors of the small council chamber in King's Landing. That could of course note the Citadel's influence in politics. The Citadel itself could be said to represent knowledge, while the sphinxes themselves are by all acounts imaginary beings. The other reference is two Valyrian sphinxes with the bodies of dragons which Tyrion encounters. Tyrion and Illyrio called them king and queen. Valyria was of course not a monarchy, but they did rule and the means was sorcery. So the rather tenuous conclusion is that sphinxes might represent magical lore and those who possess it.

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Or sphinxes just represent sphinxes, literal hybrid creatures. Like One Eye is a human wolf hybrid. Like the results of humans second lifing things in blood rituals.

Quote

By any name, it was an evil place. The dragonlords sent their worst criminals to the Isle of Tears to live out their lives in hard labor. In the dungeons of Gogossos, torturers devised new torments. In the flesh pits, blood sorcery of the darkest sort was practiced, as beasts were mated to slave women to bring forth twisted half-human children.

It's not like they'd be doing this shit for no purpose.

The sort of thing that happens if the dragonlords don't keep the blood of the dragon line pure. Like if a dragon were to mate with a kraken, who knows what you might get.

Quote

Yet there are maesters who point out that, by careful breeding of animals, one can achieve a desirable result, and that populations in isolation can often show quite remarkable variations from what might be regarded as common. This may be a likelier answer to the mystery of the Valyrian origins although it does not explain the affinity with dragons that those with the blood of Valyria clearly had.

Gotta be careful with the breeding to get the results you want. Or if you're so inclined to dark practices, sadistically and criminally minded, then do as the Gogossosi do and experiment away for the purpose of seeing what you can get.

Quote

He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed...

 

It could be amusing. More than that, your sphinxes could become your army, heeding the call of their master's horn.

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