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Aerys and Tywin are behind the Tragedy at Summerhall


Lord_Tyrell

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Personally I think the true cause of Aerys descent into madness was him and Tywin being behind the Tragedy of Summerhall. I think Aerys (and maybe Pycelle, but both seem to be a bit young to have been following Tywin and Aerys) poisoned Egg, Dunk, and Duncan the Small, and then using Wildfire ignited the palace and blamed it on sorcery. Knowing what we know about Egg, then it doesn't really make all that much sense for him to have perished with magic by trying to hatch a Dragon's Egg. Aerys needed all 3 of these people dead, but also didn't want to make it too suspicious by killing his father as well. 
 
This also allowed Tywin to massacre the Reynes and Tarbecks, because Aegon V would have punished him for it. He also wanted Aerys to name him his Hand as part of this plot. Aerys' father wasn't going to last much longer being very sickly, while Egg may have gone on to live as long as his brother Aemon did. Aegon was also convinced that Rhaegar would be the Prince that was Promised and may have made him his direct heir over his sons and grandson. Egg also forced Aerys to marry his sister in the name of this prophesy, both of which hated each other and Egg let his own sons marry for love. The means, motive, and opportunity make sense. 
 
Tywin I think hatched the idea, and was his power grab. It also clarifies the relationship between the two characters being bound by this dark secret. It explains why he's always been distrustful of his own son being the direct product of Summerhall and his grandfather's desires. It explains his descent into madness and obsession with Wildfire. It explains why Duskendale was such a breaking point for Aerys, thinking that Tywin and Rhaegar were now planning to do the exact same thing he did with Tywin a generation earlier. It explains everything about him. 
 
And here's the original theory, but since its archived I can't bump it: Link I just think this is the most logical explanation for it, and its clear that only 2 people benefited from it: Aerys and Tywin.
 
Thoughts compared to other Summerhall theories?
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lol not this theory again.

He was 16/17 when it happened. Aerys even younger. The idea that they had the resources and the influence to plan this is a little far fetched.

Do you really think if Aerys was planning on destroying Summerhall he would have allowed his pregnant wife to attend?

It actually would have been idiotic for Tywin to plan Aegon's death as it was Aegon who had to repeatedly send men to the Westerlands to bail out his father. Jaehaerys might not have been as inclined to do the same for Tytos and Tywin could have seen the lands he was set to inherit greatly diminish.

The main reason why Tywin was able to have the influence and respect to get rid of the Reynes and Tarbecks was due to the War of the Nine Penny Kings, an event that happened after Aegon's death (unless you are going to suggest that 17 year old Tywin instigated that as well).

Tywin is human, he is not some evil mastermind behind Summerhall or the kidnapping of Lyanna. You are trying to make him seem far more impressive than he actually is.

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30 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

lol not this theory again.

He was 16/17 when it happened. Aerys even younger. The idea that they had the resources and the influence to plan this is a little far fetched.

Do you really think if Aerys was planning on destroying Summerhall he would have allowed his pregnant wife to attend?

It actually would have been idiotic for Tywin to plan Aegon's death as it was Aegon who had to repeatedly send men to the Westerlands to bail out his father. Jaehaerys might not have been as inclined to do the same for Tytos and Tywin could have seen the lands he was set to inherit greatly diminish.

The main reason why Tywin was able to have the influence and respect to get rid of the Reynes and Tarbecks was due to the War of the Nine Penny Kings, an event that happened after Aegon's death (unless you are going to suggest that 17 year old Tywin instigated that as well).

Tywin is human, he is not some evil mastermind behind Summerhall or the kidnapping of Lyanna. You are trying to make him seem far more impressive than he actually is.

1) All Aerys needed was one Pyromancer to be in on it. I think it's a bit early really to put Pycelle in on it, which is why I think Aerys acted alone with Tywin from a distance. He poisoned the three of them, and then lit the place on fire.

2) Aerys was never fond of his wife and I don't think would mind going back to the drawing board, especially with a child in play that his grandfather was openly talking about placing him over him in line.

3) If Tywin had done a genocide against the Reynes and Tarbecks under his administration, then Aegon would have demanded Tywin's head. Tywin could not have gone against them until there was a weaker king or one who was his friend. The War of the Ninepenny Kings is pointless in regards to this.

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54 minutes ago, Lord_Tyrell said:

1) All Aerys needed was one Pyromancer to be in on it. I think it's a bit early really to put Pycelle in on it, which is why I think Aerys acted alone with Tywin from a distance. He poisoned the three of them, and then lit the place on fire.

All he needed was one Pyromancer to destroy Summerhall? Can you back this up with evidence?

 

54 minutes ago, Lord_Tyrell said:

2) Aerys was never fond of his wife and I don't think would mind going back to the drawing board, especially with a child in play that his grandfather was openly talking about placing him over him in line.

Aegon was talking about replacing Aerys? When is that ever said?

Eventually he grew less fond of his wife but he was also obsessed with his own children being strong Targaryens and his children in turn marrying people of Targaryen blood.

Killing his wife kind of defeats the purpose.

And part of the reason he went mad is the many children that died. Does that really strike you as the kind of person who would be planning his firstborns death?

1 hour ago, Lord_Tyrell said:

3) If Tywin had done a genocide against the Reynes and Tarbecks under his administration,

Do you not know what genocide means? What Tywin did was not genocide.

1 hour ago, Lord_Tyrell said:

 

then Aegon would have demanded Tywin's head.

Would he? Evidence for this? Why would Aegon demand his head but Jaeharys, who had the same Hand and Small Council as his father, not?

1 hour ago, Lord_Tyrell said:

 

Tywin could not have gone against them until there was a weaker king or one who was his friend. The War of the Ninepenny Kings is pointless in regards to this.

How is Jaehaerys a weak King? He went to war against the NinePenny Kings.

And no, it is not pointless. Tywin's respect and person forces was made up from many of the Westerland forces who went to war in the Nine Penny wars.

All those lords who had engaged in private wars during the previous decade were summoned to court, to have their disputes adjudicated by their liege lord.   Five hundred knights, blooded and seasoned veterans of the Stepstones, were formed into a new company under the command of Ser Tywin’s brother Ser Kevan, and charged with ridding the west of robber knights and outlaws, and “assisting in the collection of unpaid debts due to his lordship, my sire.” 

 

Now not only did the Nine Penny wars give Tywin the ready made standing army he needed but it also provided another event that would have prevented the Reyne Tarbeck situation.  Tywin's uncle, Jason Lannister, was the military leader of the Westerlands. Tywin would never have been able to organize what he did against the Reynes and Trabecks with his uncle alive, unless he was fully on board in which case he would likely be the leader.

 

And finally there was no reason for Tywin to want the Reynes and Tarbecks extinguished before Summerhall. They had not kidnapped his cousin, Stafford, till after Summerhall and Nine Penny wars. Unless you are suggesting that teenage Tywin could also see into the future?

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7 hours ago, Lord_Tyrell said:

I thought Aegon told Jaehaerys, who himself enforced it.

No. Aegon was against the incestuous marriages but gave into his son's wishes.

"On the word of Jenny of Oldstone's woods witch, Prince Jaehaerys determined to wed Aerys to Rhaella, or so the accounts from his court tell us. King Aegon washed his hands of it in frustration, letting the prince have his way." The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon V.

"Your grandsire commanded it. A woods witch had told him that the prince was promised would be born of their line." Barristan to Dany (the granddaughter of Jaehaerys) in A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IV.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This may or may not be true, but aerys inherited the targ madness from all the generations of inbreeding. It's far from secret.. duskendale may have hurried it a long, but he was already insane. We don't need any explanation for his crazy.. It's really obvious. And if this theory is true, I think you would have to be somewhat insane to hatch a plan like that, and go through with it. He was crazy always. 

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As for Tywin's age, I don't think he was too young, if we take into consideration that Robb was even younger when he became King in the North and won every battle he fought. Arya isn't even 12 and already murdering people. No, I don't think age is an issue.

The theory is interesting, but I wouldn't put THAT much weight on Duskendale on account of Aerys' madness, because:

2 hours ago, Lady_of_the_black said:

This may or may not be true, but aerys inherited the targ madness from all the generations of inbreeding. It's far from secret.. duskendale may have hurried it a long, but he was already insane. We don't need any explanation for his crazy.. It's really obvious. And if this theory is true, I think you would have to be somewhat insane to hatch a plan like that, and go through with it. He was crazy always. 

This.

Also Aegon didn't force anyone to marry so that's not a motive.

But yeah, I kinda like the theory, although there's not that much evidence to support it.

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i actually like the theory that aerys was behind the tragedy at summerhall (not convinced tywin was part of it). he could have been trying to cut those ahead of him in the line of succession or trying to eliminate rhaella who he was unhappily married to. we know rhaella was there because that was where rhaegar was born, so it is not farfetched for aerys to have been present as well. 

the argument against it is that by all accounts aerys wasn't "mad" until later in life and that he showed much promise in his youth (the tragedy occured when he was 15-16). Also, if he was trying to kill rhaella/his unborn child, what stopped him from trying again later in life? 

the tragedy could easily of just been another failed attempt by the targs to bring the dragons back as is written, but this is still an interesting theory worth thinking about. 

 

 

 

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