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How would Ned or Robert have dealt with the Reynes and Tarbecks


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So a lot has been said here about how brutal Tywin is, so how or someone like Ned or Robert have dealt with the Reynes and Tarbecks if they were in Tywin's situation? Was there any way to deal with it that does not involve killing the entire Reyne and Tarbeck gene pool? Maybe taking hostages or only killing the males and marrying the females, sending them all to the Wall? 

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Women are not sent to the Wall. With the Tarbecks Tywin sent the females to the Silent Sisters, which is probably a similar punishment and executed the male Tarbecks.

The Reynes choose to stay down in their underground castle and demanded that they were given (Lannister) hostages. I imagine adult Robert, if he could have came up with Tywin's plan, would have drowned them as well rather than let an enemy/vassal who had continually disrespected his House and murdered his grandfather get away with it for a few years.

Ned may have waited around for a few years until their supplies ran out and then killed the male Reynes while sparing the other people in their mine/castle.

Neither Robert or Ned would have given up and went home. They would have lost the respect from their other vassals if they had done that.

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40 minutes ago, nicephorus_phocas said:

So a lot has been said here about how brutal Tywin is, so how or someone like Ned or Robert have dealt with the Reynes and Tarbecks if they were in Tywin's situation? Was there any way to deal with it that does not involve killing the entire Reyne and Tarbeck gene pool? Maybe taking hostages or only killing the males and marrying the females, sending them all to the Wall? 

Well, ned takes the head off of a deserter of the watch, and Bob tried to have Dany killed so probably in a similar fashion 

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1 hour ago, nicephorus_phocas said:

Is confiscation of all property and reducing someone to commoner status a viable punishment in Westros like it is in the real world? 

Sure. What do you do if they refuse such an order? Lords can call their rulers bluff and decide that they, with their own armies, remain in charge of their own lands.

 

he sent ravens to Castamere and Tarbeck Hall, demanding that Roger and Reynard Reyne and Lord and Lady Tarbeck present themselves at Casterly Rock “to answer for your crimes.”  The Reynes and Tarbecks chose defiance instead, as Ser Tywin surely knew they would.  Both Houses rose in open revolt, renouncing their fealty to Casterly Rock.  Tywin Lannister called the banners.

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Interesting question.

Neither Ned nor Robert ever faced the same situation.

Robert, like Jon Arryn, had to put down some reluctant bannerman before he could fight the Targs, but I don't recall any rebellions in the Stormlands against Renly after Robert took the throne.

As far as I can tell, nobody has rebelled against Winterfell since Skaagos roughly 100 years ago.

House Baratheon has never faced a similar situation.

The Starks have wiped out some rebel houses but let others live.

I think it's a complicated question.

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Robert would deal with them the same way that he deals with most of his non-targaryen enemies.

Beat them to a pulp, off them a drink and become buddies with them during the victory party. (Robert's charisma was really that good. Case in point, one or two of the very Stormland lords who rose up against him at Summerhall ended up dying for him at Ashford) He'd probably take a hostage for good measure and even bed the rebel lord's daughter/wife/sister as another point towards "Making the Eight".

Ned is an interesting case.

Jorah Mormont's self-exile; the order for Gregor Clegane's death/execution; and the execution of the Night's Watch deserter show that Ned is willing to take the gloves off when the situation forces his hand. I'd imagine that he'd either execute the rebelling Reynes/Tarbeck lords and conspirators or banish any surviving leaders to the wall. He may keep their children as hostages like he did with Theon.

As for the Reynes' going into seige-mode, Ned is smart enough not to storm Castamere and loose lives senselessly. He'd offer merciful terms for their surrender and if they refuse, Ned would surround and cut them off from the outside world till they yield or starve. There isn't anything substantial to suggest that Ned would resort to any Tywin-level wipe-outs. He wouldn't be a pushover either.

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Do we know that the Reyne and Tarbeck line is really gone, are there not any Reynes and Tarbecks that are bastards or are married to other houses that are out of Tywin's reach? Or maybe even a few of them who may have gone off to Essos in the past and stayed there? Or nobles in Westeros with Reyne/Tarbeck ancestry? 

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Ned would have executed Lord Reyne, the other leading Reynes would have been given the choice of taking the back or being executed. The new lord Reyne's heirs would be taken as hostages and the Reynes would be stripped of much of their lands.

The only difference between Ned and Robert is that Robert would probably forgo the executions and just strip them of lands and take hostages.

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Well, for starters neither Ned nor Robert would continue their mother's bitchfight with her sister-in-law into the next generation, including the outright treason against their own fathers to achieve that.

 

Please remember how TWOIAF put the "rebellion" into perspective.

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11 hours ago, nicephorus_phocas said:

So a lot has been said here about how brutal Tywin is, so how or someone like Ned or Robert have dealt with the Reynes and Tarbecks if they were in Tywin's situation? Was there any way to deal with it that does not involve killing the entire Reyne and Tarbeck gene pool? Maybe taking hostages or only killing the males and marrying the females, sending them all to the Wall? 

There were plenty of ways but you must remember that all different ways will have consequences also for the victor. Leaving the Reynes and Tarbecks behind means that you leave enemies behind who could turn on you, while also not making a statement as powerful as perhaps needed. In my own preference I would not have killed them off but done something else, as seen blow.

This something else would have been to first lure the Reynes and Tarbecks to renounce Casterly Rock at which point I move aginst them and defeat them in the field of battle like Tywin did to prevent their forces from gathering. After that I would have Lord and Lady Tarbeck executed, same with the two Reynes who I suppose I would need to drown. Anyway, after the battle the Tarbeck ladies Rohanne and Cyrelle would be married to men of proven loyalty and the lands of their father and mother would be divided between them with their husbands taking the names Reyne and Tarbeck to continue these lines in service to House Lannister. All the ill-begotten gains taken by the previous Lords Tarbeck and Reyne would have been returned to their lawful owners.

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Well, they let Balon Greyjoy keep the Iron Islands despite his rebellion. The worst thing they did as a consequence was take his last surviving son as a hostage (I wouldn't could the deaths of the other sons as something they did in consequence because that happened during the rebellion). 

I think they would have done similar with the Tarbecks and Reynes. 

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22 minutes ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

Well, for starters neither Ned nor Robert would continue their mother's bitchfight with her sister-in-law into the next generation, including the outright treason against their own fathers to achieve that.

 

Please remember how TWOIAF put the "rebellion" into perspective.

This. Plus I'm fairly certain a big chunk of the dishonor Tywin was avenging was the tens of thousands of gold dragons borrowed and never repaid. Plus overall Lord Tytos was a rube and perhaps the weakest Lord since the Conquest. We don't know a whole lot about Lord Rickard Stark or Lord Steffon Baratheon, but I don't think either were dumb enough to get into that situation (or had the gold to). 

Ned would lend to his bannerman, (at no interest) but only up to a point. Robert is famous for being blissfully unaware of finances, but I think he would have the respect/fear that his bannerman would pay up.

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8 hours ago, nicephorus_phocas said:

Do we know that the Reyne and Tarbeck line is really gone, are there not any Reynes and Tarbecks that are bastards or are married to other houses that are out of Tywin's reach? Or maybe even a few of them who may have gone off to Essos in the past and stayed there? Or nobles in Westeros with Reyne/Tarbeck ancestry? 

There will be many nobles with Reyne and Tarbeck ancestry. Tywin himself almost certainly was one.

But they no longer have lands. There is little reason for someone to keep that name. Mostly it is only nobility who have last names in Westeros. Any Reynes or Tarbecks from the male line would have likely faded into obscurity by now, just some serf working a farm.

 

7 hours ago, The Ice Wolf of Loki said:

Ned would have executed Lord Reyne, the other leading Reynes would have been given the choice of taking the back or being executed. The new lord Reyne's heirs would be taken as hostages and the Reynes would be stripped of much of their lands.

The only difference between Ned and Robert is that Robert would probably forgo the executions and just strip them of lands and take hostages.

How exactly would Ned have done that?

“You cannot fight your way in, and we have food and water sufficient for three years,” he wrote, “but grant us full pardon for any past offenses, and send your brothers down to us as hostages against deceit, and we shall once again be your true and leal servants.”

Would Ned and Robert have given into their requests or waited around with their armies for three years and then only punished Lord Reyne?

5 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Well, they let Balon Greyjoy keep the Iron Islands despite his rebellion. The worst thing they did as a consequence was take his last surviving son as a hostage (I wouldn't could the deaths of the other sons as something they did in consequence because that happened during the rebellion). 

I think they would have done similar with the Tarbecks and Reynes. 

How would they have done the same to the Reynes?

  • Pyke was easy to take, it is not Castamere.
  • The Greyjoys has not killed Ned/Roberts grandfather nor kidnapped their family members
  • The Greyjoys were not technically sworn to Robert/Ned while the Reynes and Tarbecks renounced their fealty to the Lannisters and encouraged others to do so
  • The Greyjoys stood little chance of overthrowing Robert, at the time there was a real possibility that Tytos could be overthrown by his vassals.
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47 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

There were plenty of ways but you must remember that all different ways will have consequences also for the victor. Leaving the Reynes and Tarbecks behind means that you leave enemies behind who could turn on you, while also not making a statement as powerful as perhaps needed. In my own preference I would not have killed them off but done something else, as seen blow.

This something else would have been to first lure the Reynes and Tarbecks to renounce Casterly Rock at which point I move aginst them and defeat them in the field of battle like Tywin did to prevent their forces from gathering. After that I would have Lord and Lady Tarbeck executed, same with the two Reynes who I suppose I would need to drown. Anyway, after the battle the Tarbeck ladies Rohanne and Cyrelle would be married to men of proven loyalty and the lands of their father and mother would be divided between them with their husbands taking the names Reyne and Tarbeck to continue these lines in service to House Lannister. All the ill-begotten gains taken by the previous Lords Tarbeck and Reyne would have been returned to their lawful owners.

Lady Elyn Tarbeck Nee Reyne had two daughters cyrelle and rohanne tarbeck.

i would have given Kevan Lannister Cyrelle and Castamere

and

Tygette Lannister Rohanne and Tarbeck Hall

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1 hour ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

Well, for starters neither Ned nor Robert would continue their mother's bitchfight with her sister-in-law into the next generation, including the outright treason against their own fathers to achieve that.

 

Please remember how TWOIAF put the "rebellion" into perspective.

Lucky for them their father's weren't weaklings then. So are you saying Ned and Robert would just sit there and let the Reynes and Tarbecks run roughshod over everyone. Ned's pretty soft but I don't know if Robert could pass up an opportunity for war.

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