House Cambodia Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I feel we're missing the key question here - where did that elk leave its antlers??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Lyanna Mormont Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I think they merged CH and Benjen, maybe because the same thing happened to both of them. Either there's more to what happened to him and we will still learn, or it is poor writing and there is no more explanation. It was not clear to me if the CotF prevented him from dying or he was dead and they just prevented from turning. Though Bran mentioning the dragonglass to the heart might mean the first one. Perhaps it doesn't matter, but I hope we get more info on it. I'm guessing he was brought back because he's Bran's uncle and therefore someone trustworthy. 3 hours ago, God-Emperor of Yi Ti said: Eh , because Benjen is basically the Uber for 3ERs north of the wall. 3ER ordered him on weirnet but then he arrived a bit late to collect the whole party. Heh... Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robasp2 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 After 5 fucking seasons, he conveniently shows up JUST IN time.. Do they appear out of thin air? The writers ruin stuff with their #JUSTINTIME, always, every time. So I believe it was nothing more than bad writing. They needed a character to say that...ooh toomany people dead..oh, what to do? Aha lets use benjen!! No coldhands, just benjen. Wtf.. Bad writing- nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 5 minutes ago, White lilly said: I'm guessing he was brought back because he's Bran's uncle and therefore someone trustworthy. More trustworthy than his mother, surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Lyanna Mormont Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said: More trustworthy than his mother, surely. I'm referring to the CotF bringing him back instead of any other ranger or person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Just now, White lilly said: I'm referring to the CotF bringing him back instead of any other ranger or person. Fair point: that makes some sense, even. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamSongs Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 What I found odd was that Bran didn't recognize his voice and Benjen had to reveal himself to gain trust. The writer's attempt to somehow demonstrate that Benjen was 'changed'? I agree that scene was badly written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 The CoTF are really the biggest bunch of trolls. Create a mega nuke in the form of the NK which turns on them. Check. ressurect a fallen uncle years before and not bother to tell Bran " hey, we have your uncle on our side, should say hi" , I mean...surely they knew he was related to bran because they had to ressurect him specifically due to his family connection. Strongly doubt that they randomly decided to stick a piece of dragonglass in any wight for no reason unless they knew of the stark connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticWeirwood Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, Charles Stuart said: The CoTF are really the biggest bunch of trolls. Create a mega nuke in the form of the NK which turns on them. Check. ressurect a fallen uncle years before and not bother to tell Bran " hey, we have your uncle on our side, should say hi" , I mean...surely they knew he was related to bran because they had to ressurect him specifically due to his family connection. Strongly doubt that they randomly decided to stick a piece of dragonglass in any wight for no reason unless they knew of the stark connection. Benjen (whose name, by the way, means “little brother”) wasn’t a wight uey when the Children found him. He was on his way to becoming one if (un-)nature had run its course. But it wasn't allowed to play out that way. He said that the White Walker’s ice sword pierced him, and he was left to die so he could become a wight, but that the Children found him and saved him from that fate. We have seen nothing showing that the Children can resurrect someone they're dead, only that they can intervene when someone really should die to prevent that death in a rather creepy way. But the magic that sustains these dead men walking stops at the Wall, or at Bloodraven’s warded cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Ok but still, why specifically benjen and no one else? If they could do that with one then they should easily be able to do it with at least one other person who has just been punctured by a WW. Instead we have the stark relation solely being the only undead whatever it is what benjen actually is. indicating that there is a specific reason for benjen being brought back from near wightdom due to his family lineage I presume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TickTak7 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 41 minutes ago, robasp2 said: After 5 fucking seasons, he conveniently shows up JUST IN time.. Do they appear out of thin air? The writers ruin stuff with their #JUSTINTIME, always, every time. So I believe it was nothing more than bad writing. They needed a character to say that...ooh toomany people dead..oh, what to do? Aha lets use benjen!! No coldhands, just benjen. Wtf.. Bad writing- nothing more. Well the show-runners have referred to him as "Coldhands Benjen". There are plenty of theories to explain his timing, too. If he was wounded and was turning into a White himself, he may still be linked to the NK and know his movements - and felt he needed to act when they attacked the 3ER's weirwood tree. If he was saved by the CotF and had a bond with the 3ER, which we know he does, then it's not out of the possibility that he may have been nearby the entire time and decided to act when he heard the attack. Plus this way, it's much more dramatic an introduction. Surely him just stumbling into the tree tunnels and being like "yo what's up its me uncle ben" would have been pretty anti-climatic for a character that both show and book readers have speculated about for YEARS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarkar Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 So dragonglass in the heart makes the NK. But Dragonglass on Benjan makes something else? Something doesnt add up here. Bran implied the COTF did the same to Benjan as they did with the NK, so one assumes Dragon glas sin the heart.... Does dragonglass do something different to a Stark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TickTak7 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 22 minutes ago, Xarkar said: So dragonglass in the heart makes the NK. But Dragonglass on Benjan makes something else? Something doesnt add up here. Bran implied the COTF did the same to Benjan as they did with the NK, so one assumes Dragon glas sin the heart.... Does dragonglass do something different to a Stark? A few possible explanations that could explain this: 1) The CotF draw magic through the dragonglass, but what specific magic they use, is based on what chants/spells they cast. If you watch back to the White Walker origin scene, before Leaf stabs the eventual NK with the Dragonglass, they are whispering a spell of some sort that acts on him. They would not have wanted to do the same thing to Benjen that they did to the NK. The NK was a weapon they lost control over, so creating a second one would not have made sense. 2) When they created the NK, they stabbed a human in the heart with the dragonglass in order to weaponize him. Benjen on the other hand, was already on his way to becoming a wight before he was stabbed by the dragonglass. Maybe the fact that he had already been wounded changed the dragonglass's effect into more of a survival one rather than a weaponized one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandslegate Posted May 30, 2016 Author Share Posted May 30, 2016 I'm willing to accept it may all just be due to fast-tracking/simplifying the storyline. However, and it may just be my own adding twists here, after thinking over the episode, it seemed odd that Benjen showed up saying he was with BR only after BR is no longer alive to back it up. Likewise, it would make sense for NK to want to keep Bran alive if he now had a mark that broke the protective barrier spells. It also seemed like an about-face in direction to be leading him back to the Wall. I mean everyone knows the Wall is going to come down eventually. Perhaps this is how. Either from malice in some form of deception or simply a sort of facing destiny. Don't get me wrong, though, I'm right there with everyone else that's waited to see what became of Benjen and I'm totally fine with it if Benjen is exactly what he seems to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messem Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Xarkar said: So dragonglass in the heart makes the NK. But Dragonglass on Benjan makes something else? Something doesnt add up here. Well, metal in the heart kills you, ask Roose Bolton. Metal in the heart can save your life if it is an artificial heart valve. Something doesn't add up. Seriously though, that's the reason you should be frugal with magic because as an author you can make up the rules as you need them. Doesn't make the story better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Gareth Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 3 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said: Is there some reason why you would not take Martin at his word in this? There are various ways that he could be telling the exact truth. Because there is a difference between taking someone at their word and someone at face value. It may be that Benjen simply isn't Coldhands in the books. It could be an OB1 to Luke about his father moment. If we ever get the next book maybe we'll finally find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Gareth Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 58 minutes ago, messem said: Well, metal in the heart kills you, ask Roose Bolton. Metal in the heart can save your life if it is an artificial heart valve. Something doesn't add up. Seriously though, that's the reason you should be frugal with magic because as an author you can make up the rules as you need them. Doesn't make the story better. Also the original Others were created thousands of years ago if the histories are to be believed. I'd like to think the Children would have perfected their technique over a few thousand years..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseLark Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said: Also the original Others were created thousands of years ago if the histories are to be believed. I'd like to think the Children would have perfected their technique over a few thousand years..... There's also a very good chance we don't know the full story about the creation of the Others just yet. We saw a few seconds of it on screen. Presumably, the White Walker super weapon the COTF created was under their control for some time but like the Terminators, they exceeded their programming at some point. Benjen may simply be what the COTF were trying to create in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseLark Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Charles Stuart said: Ok but still, why specifically benjen and no one else? If they could do that with one then they should easily be able to do it with at least one other person who has just been punctured by a WW. Instead we have the stark relation solely being the only undead whatever it is what benjen actually is. indicating that there is a specific reason for benjen being brought back from near wightdom due to his family lineage I presume. I'm guessing Blood Raven foresaw the need for Bran to have a guardian at some point and choosing someone he would instinctively trust rather than Third Nights Watchman from the left would make things easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJE Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 So are we to assume that Benjen is really Coldhands in the book or just in the show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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