Bran's Visions Breakdown/Discussion

[dbunting]

35 minutes ago, princess_snow said:

So in the moment when Ned asks where his sister is, who is he talking to ? I'm assuming this is after the battle right ? As we saw all of the battle. Its not Howland. So who ? 

Timelines are over lapping, he asked that before the fight at the TOJ, likely just hearing it again. A lot of what was in Brans flashback was stuff we had already seen.

As to the bloody hand, is it possible Ned has to do a C section and cut the baby out? I assume she just gave birth and the blood is from that but if people want to say there is a cut or whatever a c section could be a reason for it?

Definitely not from Rheagar doing a whole Lightbringer thing, after all Rheagar has been dead at this point for quite a while. He died on the Trident before King Bob and Ned ever traveled to KL, then Ned spends time tracking down Lyanna. No way that much time has gone by and she is still alive.

[princess_snow]

7 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Timelines are over lapping, he asked that before the fight at the TOJ, likely just hearing it again. A lot of what was in Brans flashback was stuff we had already seen.

As to the bloody hand, is it possible Ned has to do a C section and cut the baby out? I assume she just gave birth and the blood is from that but if people want to say there is a cut or whatever a c section could be a reason for it?

Definitely not from Rheagar doing a whole Lightbringer thing, after all Rheagar has been dead at this point for quite a while. He died on the Trident before King Bob and Ned ever traveled to KL, then Ned spends time tracking down Lyanna. No way that much time has gone by and she is still alive.

Yes I think it is possible. I never imagined it went down that way tbh, but I guess we really don't know exactly what did go down when Ned went into the tower. Other than 'they removed his hand from hers' or whatever the text says ( don't have the book with me at the moment ).

   It does look like a cut when I look at that particular image. No way - its not from Rhaegar.  I agree with you hes dead by this stage or in KL or the trident.  I get so confused with the timeline, but I don't believe Rhaegar and or Lyanna are alive.

[princess_snow]

18 minutes ago, dbunting said:

 

As to the bloody hand, is it possible Ned has to do a C section and cut the baby out? I assume she just gave birth and the blood is from that but if people want to say there is a cut or whatever a c section could be a reason for it?

 

Looking AGAIN at that image - its pretty hard to make out what is going on. By the position of Lyannas hand ( assuming it is Lyanna) the alleged cut is the wrong way for a caesarean cut and over to the side if the body is lying the way I'm seeing it as.

[dbunting]

Just now, princess_snow said:

Looking AGAIN at that image - its pretty hard to make out what is going on. By the position of Lyannas hand ( assuming it is Lyanna) the alleged cut is the wrong way for a caesarean cut and over to the side if the body is lying the way I'm seeing it as.

Yeah, best off just waiting until we actually see it on screen to decide what is what.

[princess_snow]

3 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Yeah, best off just waiting until we actually see it on screen to decide what is what.

Yep. My god though I am so curious ! Looking forward to it.

[Nymeria-of-Royne]

Complete madness!  indeed dbunting & Princess Snow! What was I thinking?  I'm such an idiotic pleb!  I'll go grab my spiked whip to perform some seriously deserved self punishment for wasting precious time of others.

[Nymeria-of-Royne]

I looked at a light-enhanced still photo of the bloody hand and body and I'm convinced the hand with the bracers is a female hand and the body is that if a young man. The body looks burnt with a gash on the side of it. The hands with the bracers look distinctly female.  I'm not sure who it is though. 

One possibility is, it's not burn and the female is Lyanna and the body is Howland.

[Miss007els]

1 hour ago, Nymeria-of-Royne said:

I looked at a light-enhanced still photo of the bloody hand and body and I'm convinced the hand with the bracers is a female hand and the body is that if a young man. The body looks burnt with a gash on the side of it. The hands with the bracers look distinctly female.  I'm not sure who it is though. 

One possibility is, it's not burn and the female is Lyanna and the body is Howland.

Upon closer inspection of the picture, not light enhanced... it doesn't look like a gash to me at all. Or burnt. it looks like the rail of a wooden bed or cot that is blood soaked with blood soaked cloth spilling over it under the bloody hand. The bloody hand looks masculine in my opinion. I know everyone is different but the fingers look wider and shorter like a man's rather than delicate, elongated thin fingers of a woman. Also, the arm/hand laying next to the "gash" looks further away... as if it's on the ground and the bleeding body is slightly elevated above it. It also looks smaller, like a womans, or a young person's... Lyanna would have been only 17 years old? Here's how it plays out in my head: Lyanna reaching for Ned as he kneels down (with her right hand). He places his hand on her body and speaks with her, "Promise me Ned!" and he promises, and watches the life go out of her, she drops her arm off the side of the bloody bed/cot and Ned, realizing she's gone lifts his hand and looks at it all bloody in disbelief that his sister has passed. 

Could the "gash" be a bed rail? I highly doubt any one, GRRM or D&D would even attempt to portray any type of c-section or anything related in this fantasy story. I could be wrong though. 

[tinyskeeveuk]

Listening to the visions again and it definitely sounds like "Burn them all" is being spoken in two voices; one of which sounds like Blood Raven.

Also, I thought Hodor went mad because of the link between present Hodor and past Hodor - not because Bran spoke to him. Ned has heard him previously and didn't go mad so I can't see why BR couldn't be whispering to the Mad King over time, driving him slowly to the paranoia and madness we know him for instead of Hodor-like immediate madness.

 

 

 

[hebertjl5]

Hi everyone! Big time skulker, first time poster.

If you look at the lighting on the bloodied hand, it is clear that it is daytime, and the TOJ scene took place during the day with bright sun.

The Red Wedding took place at night with just candlelight. Ignoring the other clues that Robb was wearing black, and the blue and green shown matches the young Ned Stark - the fact that this was clearly happening during the daytime lends itself to be the TOJ scene, or another scene entirely.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

On 02/06/2016 at 4:25 PM, tinyskeeveuk said:

Listening to the visions again and it definitely sounds like "Burn them all" is being spoken in two voices; one of which sounds like Blood Raven.

Also, I thought Hodor went mad because of the link between present Hodor and past Hodor - not because Bran spoke to him. Ned has heard him previously and didn't go mad so I can't see why BR couldn't be whispering to the Mad King over time, driving him slowly to the paranoia and madness we know him for instead of Hodor-like immediate madness.

 

 

 

OMG! GREAT FIND!

You can clearly hear 2 different voices saying "Burn them all!". This pretty much confirms that the Mad King's madness was caused by the 3EC.

Is that the same voice as the 3EC in the show? I can't tell for sure, but it sounds like it is.

It was the 3EyedCrow, not Bran, that caused the Mad King's madness - confirmed ~99.9%

[lojzelote]

The focus on Aerys and wildfire is there because it had been Aerys who had had the wildfire caches put under King's Landing, it appears likely they will blow up at some point in future. The "burn them all" is supposed to explain it's his work (because most viewers likely forgot about the Jaime-Brienne discussion a long time ago).

Nothing more to see here, probably.

Anyway, if it's BR or Bran, doesn't it make them the villains, sort of? I mean, what kind of an idiot puts in the mind of an already severely disturbed Targaryen king the thought he should burn everybody? At the end of the day Aerys' arsonic tendencies and paranoia (and subsequently the Rebellion) would be the greenseers' fault.

But it would be hilarious if Aerys, whose biggest crime is burning/otherwise killing important nobles, including two Starks, is brought to this madness by a Stark. Bran, you dumbass, I hope it's not true.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I've been thinking. What if we see Jaime kill Aerys and sit on the throne in the same episode we saw him cast out of his Kingsguard oath for a reason. We know Tommen is doomed due to Maggy. What if Cersei tries to make Jaime king in his place with no other heirs about? That way presumably they can marry like Targs (see Jaime saying the gods don't apply to kings) and she'll be Queen again.

[Meera of Tarth]

On 2/6/2016 at 5:25 PM, tinyskeeveuk said:

Listening to the visions again and it definitely sounds like "Burn them all" is being spoken in two voices; one of which sounds like Blood Raven.

Also, I thought Hodor went mad because of the link between present Hodor and past Hodor - not because Bran spoke to him. Ned has heard him previously and didn't go mad so I can't see why BR couldn't be whispering to the Mad King over time, driving him slowly to the paranoia and madness we know him for instead of Hodor-like immediate madness.

 

 

 

I think the second voice is almost the same as Aerys, just more desperated/angry. I think it's him and not BR?

Yes, the link is the key, they have talked about this in the interviews. And from those sources, which appear to be a bit contradictory (we know from Nairn that Hodor was not warged when he was holding the door, but, at the same time, he is being warged inside the cave) my guess is that Hodor got unwarged when Bran warged Wyllis in the past. Those almost two simultaneous wargings are, what I think made Wyllis go mad.

[map66]

This post will get to Bran's vision in a moment, but first a theory I've been playing around with over the  last couple weeks.   I assume Bran is headed to Jon Snow to reveal his true identity, and I have little doubt that Bran can convince Jon he is really John Targaryen--- for that matter Benjen likely knows as well for confirmation. But how is Jon going to convince anyone outside his inner circle  who he is?  One way would be that Jon acquires a dragon.  And one way he could get one rather quickly is if Bran wargs into one of Dany's dragons and flies it to him.  (My apology if this theory has been raised elsewhere---- I haven't been  paying much attention to the message boards until the show caught up to the books.)

I re-watched Bran's visions looking for evidence, and there is a fair bit there.   Start with the image of Dany and the birth of the dragons paired with what most assume is an image of Jon's birth in the Tower of Joy.   Then, there is the dragon's eye POV shot of one of them flying over King's Landing--- or AKA the Bran warging POV shot.    And keep in mind, King's Landing is rather close to the flight path a dragon would take to get from Meereen to wherever Jon likely is (Winterfell?)

Then there's "Burn them all."  That could be the command that Bran gives to the dragon to send it into battle (again battle of Winterfell?).   And with the way that the visions are jumbled, it seems reasonable that maybe simultaneously the Mad King accidentally receives the same command from Bran in a collosal instance of crossed wires.  

The other piece evidence, not from the visions, is when Bran is told by the Three Eyed Raven that he won't walk again, but that he will fly.

All that said, I do wonder if it's too obvious and pulpy a plot twist for GRRM.   But it would go a long way to setting up the characters to where they likely need to be for the end game.

 

[House Cambodia]

^  Hmm. Ravens (crows) fly - even the three-eyed variety.

[Joseph Weaver]

Everyone is assuming the dragon over KL is a future vision. It could be the past too right? There used to be dragons in KL for a pretty long time..

 

Also, just because it showed the mad king it doesn't mean BR/Bran had anything to do with it. None of the other images were something that they affected. 

 

The logic behind both of these conclusions are pretty shaky imo

[Iona]

6 hours ago, lojzelote said:

Anyway, if it's BR or Bran, doesn't it make them the villains, sort of? I mean, what kind of an idiot puts in the mind of an already severely disturbed Targaryen king the thought he should burn everybody? At the end of the day Aerys' arsonic tendencies and paranoia (and subsequently the Rebellion) would be the greenseers' fault.

If BR really did a bit of weir-whispering, that would have probably been in order to forge the future into what it is now. For example, he made Aerys go off-the-wall-burn-unit-nuts so that Jamie would be forced to kill him. The looming threat of Aerys burning the whole city and all the people in it (including Tywin) was what made Jamie break his oath, I seem to remember. So it might make sense, and not even be all that villanous...

[lojzelote]

15 hours ago, Iona said:

If BR really did a bit of weir-whispering, that would have probably been in order to forge the future into what it is now. For example, he made Aerys go off-the-wall-burn-unit-nuts so that Jamie would be forced to kill him. The looming threat of Aerys burning the whole city and all the people in it (including Tywin) was what made Jamie break his oath, I seem to remember. So it might make sense, and not even be all that villanous...

It's supposed to be somehow good because Jaime gets to play a hero? How come? Without Aerys going insane there would be no reason to kill him to begin with. Nah, causing the king's madness, which in turn leads to a civil war in which thousands die and suffer is despicable.

[Iona]

Just now, lojzelote said:

It's supposed to be somehow good because Jaime gets to play a hero? How come? Without Aerys going insane there would be no reason to kill him to begin with. Nah, causing the king's madness, which in turn leads to a civil war in which thousands die and suffer is despicable.

Jamie supposedly being a hero comes from your head, not mine. I was talking of BR's actions, and couldn't give a toss about Jamie. All men are just puppets in the flow of time, and perhaps at times influenced by the admin of the weirnet, as we saw happening with past-Hodor.

I'm thinking of the bigger picture here - if Jamie hadn't finished Aerys, then what would've happened? Surely things wouldn't be as they are now. Perhaps Robert wouldn't have become a king and then Bran would never have fallen from a tower or ended up in the cave to learn what he has learnt by now. If BR did influence things, that would've been to force the future events so that all we've seen by now would happen.

I would hazard a guess that what's to come in the future is far more daunting than any civil war the Planetos has ever seen, save for the Long Night, so collateral damage needs to be endured. If that was why BR messed with Aerys's head, then I cannot label that very villanous.