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Shouldn't it be Jon Sand not Jon Snow.


House Beaudreau

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There's no official bastard registry in Westeros enforcing names on technicalities. He was thought to be Ned's, Ned took him home north, Ned probably said this is my son Jon Snow because he'd never consider another name for a Stark bastard and that was just that.

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1 minute ago, Lordi Nietos said:

Generally speaking the name comes from where the bastard is raised.

Yeah. The reason why it seems that all the bastards take after the names where they are born is because their mothers are usually from those lands, they stay in those lands when given birth, and then they raise the kid mostly by themselves with little help from the father. Very rarely do you have a Lord bring his bastard home with him to raise as Ned did. It's a large part as to why that entire situation was so scandalous; cause usually Jon would be kept in Dorne and would be raised as a Sand. But since Ned acknowledged him and did bring Jon home to raise as his own, Jon gets the northern bastard surname.

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3 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

If R+L=J or Brandon Stark + Ashara Dayne = J or Ned+ Wylla = J. It all adds up to the same thing, Jon was not born in the north why is his last name Snow it should be Sand... Right? if he was born at Starfall or the Tower of Joy either way thats not the North. 

I think this is a good clue to the fact that Jon was born in the North. Birthplaces (and rebirth places) matter. I think we will discover that Jon was not born at the Tower of Joy. There are a number of reasons that Lyanna might have been in a "bed of blood." The author wanted us to assume that childbirth caused the bed of blood, but I don't think that's necessarily true.

Birthplace importance: For instance, Dany was supposedly born on Dragonstone. Her most recent rebirth is at the rocky outcropping in the desert where Drogon hangs out. Dany decides to nickname the place Dragonstone. Her previous rebirth had been on Khal Drogo's funeral pyre in the Dothraki Sea. So she had been "at sea" in Essos for a long time, but the rebirth at the new "Dragonstone" represents Dany extricating herself from Essos and turning her attention again to the west and invasion of Westeros.

Tyrion, on the other hand, has had a couple of rebirths at King's Landing (becoming Hand of the King - although that may have been at his father's military camp, not at King's Landing; surviving the attack by Ser Mandon Moore during the Battle of the Blackwater; becoming a "kinslayer" after killing his father and then emerging from the birth canal tunnel that Varys showed him). But now Tyrion has had a couple or more rebirths in Essos: emerging from the wine barrel in which he had hidden, like a dragon hatching from an egg; emerging from the cracked hull of the Selaesori Qhoran after the storms, like a dragon emerging from an egg. Tyrion also had a rebirth at the Eyrie, though, when he emerged from the ice cell and teamed up with Bronn for the successful Trial by Combat. I'm not sure if this mountain rebirth symbolizes his bond with the Mountain Clans or if being set free from the Gates of the Moon foreshadows his ability to fly. Maybe both.

Jon is all about the North. He was reborn as a brother of the Night's Watch when he took his vows beyond the Wall. He has been reborn Beyond the Wall as a wildling. He was reborn a second time as a member of the Night's Watch when Mormont forgave him instead of beheading him for desertion. It's pretty clear that his recent death at the hands of the Night's Watch will lead to resurrection (rebirth) in the north. Tyrion tells him he has more of the north in him than his brothers have. He is a Snow more than anyone else in the book.

It's also helpful to examine Ramsay Snow when considering the surname Snow. Ramsay gives up this quintessentially northern name to take his father's surname, Bolton, just before becoming the Prince of Winterfell and heir to Warden in the North. I think it's a signal to the reader that this guy is not intended to succeed in these roles, or to hold the jobs for very long. (In case we hadn't already figured that out.) If he wanted to be the leader of the north, he should have kept his northern name.

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The bastard name is not derived from the place of birth, or where he's raised, or whatever. It is solely at the discretion of the noble parent. And Ned Stark said "Snow". End of story.

 

Case in point: the Sandsnakes, of whom three are of non-Dornish birth and at least one was raised outside of Dorne. Or Tyrion Tanner, who got no region-linked name at all.

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1 hour ago, Fox of House McCloud said:

Is there a name for a Braavosi bastard in Westeros?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that every bastard has to adopt the standard surname wherever they happen to be at that time. So I don't get why her being in westeros as a lady (by their standards) matters.

47 minutes ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

The bastard name is not derived from the place of birth, or where he's raised, or whatever. It is solely at the discretion of the noble parent. And Ned Stark said "Snow". End of story.

 

Case in point: the Sandsnakes, of whom three are of non-Dornish birth and at least one was raised outside of Dorne. Or Tyrion Tanner, who got no region-linked name at all.

Totally agree. I was running short on time earlier but was going to say the same thing. And since everyone believes Jon's mother was a commoner (not us, the charecters) the surname would default to his lord father.

However, I don't think where the child is raised has nothing to do with it. I don't think Mya Stone's mother was from noble house, please correct me if wrong. And she is treated better than most. So it seems like a bastard of a Lord who is not openly acknowledged by him gets the surname of the area.

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26 minutes ago, AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy said:

IHowever, I don't think where the child is raised has nothing to do with it. I don't think Mya Stone's mother was from noble house, please correct me if wrong. And she is treated better than most. So it seems like a bastard of a Lord who is not openly acknowledged by him gets the surname of the area.

Well, the noble parents are of course influenced by customs.

 

Mya Stone is sort-of acknowledged, or at least was up until the Robert-Cersei marriage. That sort-of-acknowledgement is the only reason she has a second name, Gendry, Bella or Barra didn't have any.

She was raised by her sort-of-grandfather Jon Arryn anyway, and he pushed the second name.

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4 hours ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

The bastard name is not derived from the place of birth, or where he's raised, or whatever. It is solely at the discretion of the noble parent. And Ned Stark said "Snow". End of story.

Yep. Sounds about right.

Presumably, Tyrion Tanner is Tyrion Tanner just because Bronn thought that was kinda funny. But, as long as he didn't claim any real surname belonging to an actual family, nobody cared.

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10 hours ago, AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy said:

How would this jive with Alayne Stone?

I'd have to check to be sure but wasn't Littlefingers story that he fathered her and she was raised in Gulltown?

 

7 hours ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

Case in point: the Sandsnakes, of whom three are of non-Dornish birth and at least one was raised outside of Dorne. Or Tyrion Tanner, who got no region-linked name at all.

Which Sandsnake was raised outside of Dorne?

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If there was a region in which acknowledged bastards were named Nothingtoseeheremovealong, Ned would have claimed he took a detour that way during the rebellion.

Unfortunately for him there wasn't. So he picked the next best thing and went with Snow.

There are maybe six people on all of Westeros who can dispute the issue without being immediately told to shut up and sit down. Only one of them had the power to enforce anything he decided. However since it didn't involve something he could eat, drink, fight or have sex with he didn't give it a second thought. Or a first for that matter.

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