Lord Vance II Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 First off, let's look at Dany's possible invasion force. It consists of eunick (sp?) slave soldiers (not slaves anymore but what difference does that make to Westerosi?), PROBABLY Dothraki, Ironborn and Essosi mercenaries. Its like a whos-who of people who would terrify the Westerosi smallfolk..not to mention the dragons. What leader would unleash Dothraki on her own people? Speaking of the smallfolk, Dany has no upside for them. As has been said many times in the books, smallfolk don't really give a shit who is on the throne as long as their crops come in and their children have a future. There are no chains to break, they're as free as peasants can be. All Dany has to offer is another round of fire and blood, more lost crops, more dead sons and fathers, more raped mothers and daughters. I think Dany expects to smallfolk to flock to her...and I think "the dragon" will be awakened when they don't like they did in Slaves Bay. I don't think any of the greathouses would bend the knee to Dany, the daughter of the Mad King who has made her goal their demise. Could the combined might of Westeros stop Dany and her army? Maybe (I hope so) but probably not. Though dragons aren't quite as terrifying as they were during Aegon's Conquest because Dany's aren't nearly as large and people now know that they can be killed. Add to that the fact that she has proved to be a terrible ruler. Slavers bay is a disaster because of her. Her obsession with stamping out slavers is certainly honorable, but with no alternative shes basically freeing slaves to a life of squalor and even further marginalization. The masters still have all the property, all the wealth, all the power. The smallfolk have freedom and not much else. Her cities are rife with crime and injustice. The situation is different in Westeros, but if she can't keep one city in order how could she rule a massive continent without just burning all who oppose her (Aerys style) The best hope for Westeros is if Aegon (who I believe is the real deal) is able to unite Westeros (or at least southern Westeros) against her and attack her as she tries to land through the dragon fire. But at this point, with the countryside trying to recover from the War of 5 Kings, a bad winter coming and the dead along with it, Dany is the last think Westeros needs. Though it plays into my belief that the "winner" of the Game of Thrones will have a hollow victory, dominion over a pile of ash. (I know she will most likely be key to the defeat of the Others, and it might win her big points, but she would have to wait until the North was totally overrun for people in the south to really care since they believe its a bunch of Northern nonsense anyways. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Ya know, the post explaining the rules regarding the show spoilers is pinned and all... " This means that no show spoilers of any kind should be posted in the book forums. No hints, no speculation, nothing. Any breach of that rule will result in a suspension: no excuses and no exceptions. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neolaina Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 First, eunuch, for future reference. Second, I'm not particularly rooting for or against her. I'm actually more curious to see how she faces the threat from the North. She's in a unique position where she knows next to nothing about the old Gods, what's beyond the wall, the Children, and the Walkers, yet she's also been heavily surrounded by multiple other forms of magic (HotU, her Dragons, including the results of Drogo's pyre) which leads me to think that, unlike the Southrons in Westeros, she may not look at that northern threat as just a fairy tale. With regards to the smallfolk, there is a poignant scene where an old man mentions how times were different when Dragons still sat on the throne, which I always felt was telling. Further, I'm not particularly sure she'll throw her armies against the smallfolk. Consider that her khalasar post-Drogo's pyre consisted of the elderly and the young, and she's consistently done a pretty good job at keeping them as safe as she can, as well as other people who've eventually joined her horde. With regards to the great Houses, right off the bat, it's already established that Dorne would most likely support the Targaryens, given the Quentyn/Arianne deals. I don't think this is a stretch. Further, I doubt given the fracas afoot, that any the great houses will be in any rush to work together to repel her. The Baratheons are on the cusp of extinction, the Tullys are near-extinct, as are the Starks. The Lannisters and the Tyrells have some degree of power, but they're currently having to deal with the power of the Seven Pointed Star, a religious group who consistently seems to be amassing more political power. Lord knows what Littlefinger will do, and if Sansa does usurp the Vale from him, she's probably heading north. Westeros is in disarray. Further, the Tyrells supported the Targaryens pretty loyally. Who's to say they wouldn't look to her for help. You're absolutely right about her having proven to be a terrible ruler, though that was before her transformation. She avoided ruling as a Targaryen might. She capitulated, she gave in, she made deals, and things fell apart. Given her rebirth, it'll be interesting to see how her rule changes, starting with finishing what's been started in Meereen. Your last part is the most important in all this. How she conducts herself with regards to the North may be very important. Consider this: Many think dragons are dead. With the shock value of seeing them alive again, many people in the South may be a lot more amenable to considering what's afoot in the North. One of those "Well, shit, if dragons exist again, I suppose it's possible Walkers might..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 the best for westeros would be if Tommen got to be king in peace but thats not gonna happen so fAegon is the best king. Cus people will listen and repect him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey Snow Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 In the books, the small folks (or slaves) of Meereen do flock to her. The insurgency of the Son's of the Harpy, is of the former elite or former masters. Only in the show do the small folk or slaves turn on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Golden Wolf Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Dany is bringing a bunch of people with no real snow experience to a land that is about to be covered with a ton of snow. She may be okay in Dorne, the Reach, or the Stormlands but as soon as she takes her people into the Crownlands, Riverlands, Westerlands, The Vale, or the North just the temperature drop and snow is going to kill most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Answering your question; Yes I am rooting against Dany. Second TVseries related threads belong to the TVseries forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseFossoway Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I firmly believe that Daenerys is going to be the closest ASOIAF has to a "main antagonist". If Daenerys is one of GRRM's inversions of tropes, then Daenerys could be the inversion of the evil, yet beautiful, sorceress Queen, like the queen from Snow White, or the White Witch of Narnia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Vance II Posted May 30, 2016 Author Share Posted May 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: Ya know, the post explaining the rules regarding the show spoilers is pinned and all... " This means that no show spoilers of any kind should be posted in the book forums. No hints, no speculation, nothing. Any breach of that rule will result in a suspension: no excuses and no exceptions. " My bad, early morning. Do I need to move it or will one of the Mods? Or just take it down, it's not particularly original or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 She'll come, she'll conquer, she'll kill the White Walkers and die a martyr. Xanatos Gambit=Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 [mod] I removed the references to the show above; the topic can be discussed on the books alone and remain here. If you want to discuss this in relation to the show, however, that belongs in the show forum [/mod] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 22 minutes ago, kimim said: she'll kill the White Walkers How she will do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 About 70% of the forum, give or take. For the very reasons you mentioned and a couple additional ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 40 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: How she will do it? Dragons? Dragonglass kills Walkers. Dragon fire will probably have the same effect. Fire kills wights, so there go Walker soldiers. Meanwhile, what kind of weapon can the Walkers and wights use against dragons? They don't seem to be high tech at all. Possibly there's some magic that they can use but we don't know. edit: I can see GRRM balancing out the situation by having humans kill a couple of dragons while she's battling in Westeros though how humans will get their act together to manage that after what Westeros has been through, idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 1 minute ago, kimim said: Dragons? Dragonglass kills Walkers. Dragon fire will probably have the same effect. Fire kills wights, so there go Walker soldiers. Meanwhile, what kind of weapon can the Walkers and wights use against dragons? They don't seem to be high tech at all. Possibly there's some magic that they can use but we don't know. edit: I can see GRRM balancing out the situation by having humans kill a couple of dragons while she's battling in Westeros. We have absolutely zero evidence that dragons can kill the Others. Dragonglass is just another name for obsidian a volcanic rock which have nothing to do with the dragons. If the dragons had any effect then it would had been mentioned since there were ancient Westerosi dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I root in a way against Daenerys because if she gets the throne Tommen or Myrcelle won't. But if not Tommen or Myrcelle takes the throne then I certainly want Daenerys before Aegon, Euron or Stannis to gain the throne. So she's my second choice in the matter given that from her Meereen experience she don't seem to murdermanic as JonCon, who I think would influence Aegon, and can relatively mild with her enemies, as seen with the slaver classes, unlike Stannis and I don't even want to consider Euron being king. And in regards to laws of succession Stannis would be the rightful king but right now that part has pretty much gone to hell as far as I can see with only destruction reserved for the Lannisters if that would happen. So there's essentially past the point of no return by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 9 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: We have absolutely zero evidence that dragons can kill the Others. Dragonglass is just another name for obsidian a volcanic rock which have nothing to do with the dragons. If the dragons had any effect then it would had been mentioned since there were ancient Westerosi dragons. Obsidian in our world, and obsidian in Planetos are different beasts. Obsidian is known as "frozen fire," and glass candles are made of obsidian: " The night before an acolyte says his vows, he must stand a vigil in the vault. No lantern is permitted him, no torch, no lamp, no taper... only a candle of obsidian." So obsidian and some type of fire, presumably dragon fire are related. I'll guess that if obsidian (frozen fire) can kill a Walker, so can dragon fire. edit: There may have been dragons on Westeros, but so far as we're aware, only humans capable of taming dragons and using them as weapons were the Valyrians, on Essos. I mean...sure you can have a wild, magical animal capable of killing Walkers. If you can't tame them and use them, they'll be of no use to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Just now, kimim said: Obsidian in our world, and obsidian in Planetos are different beasts Really? Is there anything in the books to imply that? 1 minute ago, kimim said: So obsidian and some type of fire, presumably dragons fire are, presumably, related. I'll guess that if obsidian (frozen fire) can kill a Walker, so can dragon fire. Obsidian is a frozen molten rock which is a combination of all the elements of nature. Which means that it takes a combination of the nature itself to take down the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 23 minutes ago, kimim said: Dragons? Dragonglass kills Walkers. Dragon fire will probably have the same effect. Fire kills wights, so there go Walker soldiers. Meanwhile, what kind of weapon can the Walkers and wights use against dragons? They don't seem to be high tech at all. Possibly there's some magic that they can use but we don't know. edit: I can see GRRM balancing out the situation by having humans kill a couple of dragons while she's battling in Westeros though how humans will get their act together to manage that after what Westeros has been through, idk. all the dragons will die before they have chance agaginst the whitewalkers. Daenerys has the means she just dont care since the ironthrone is here chair end of story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 16 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Really? Is there anything in the books to imply that? Obsidian is a frozen molten rock which is a combination of all the elements of nature. Which means that it takes a combination of the nature itself to take down the Others. Yeah; I included the quote: "The night before an acolyte says his vows, he must stand a vigil in the vault. No lantern is permitted him, no torch, no lamp, no taper... only a candle of obsidian." Glass candles are made of obsidian. Glass candles allow their users magical powers. Obsidian, for some reason, can kill a Walker the way iron or steel can't. In the real world, obsidian is not magical, and humans can't "warg" with various animals, and the dead don't rise, etc. On planetos, obsidian is magical, humans can warg, and the dead do rise. I mean...this is fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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