Anyone else rooting against Dany?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 minute ago, kimim said:

Yeah; I included the quote: "The night before an acolyte says his vows, he must stand a vigil in the vault. No lantern is permitted him, no torch, no lamp, no taper... only a candle of obsidian." Glass candles are made of obsidian. Glass candles allow their users magical powers.

Which could also mean that people can use the candle without the candle being magical but the person has the magical power.

3 minutes ago, kimim said:

In the real world, obsidian is not magical, and humans can't "warg" with various animals, and the dead don't rise, etc. On planetos, obsidian is magical, humans can warg, and the dead do rise. I mean...this is fantasy.

That means nothing. We have absolutely no evidence that is the candles that have the power and not the person that has the power. And even if the obsidian is magical you seem to forget that is a molten rock which has been frozen. Which means that you need cold to kill the others too.

[kimim]

1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Which could also mean that people can use the candle without the candle being magical but the person has the magical power.

That means nothing. We have absolutely no evidence that is the candles that have the power and not the person that has the power. And even if the obsidian is magical you seem to forget that is a molten rock which has been frozen. Which means that you need cold to kill the others too.

If people could see afar without using glass candles, then they would. But they don't. They use glass candles. Similarly, a steel sword will not kill a Walker, but a dragonglass shard will. Again, you can talk about "powers of nature," but this is not how nature works in our world. This is nature magic, which is a different beast. Anyone holding an obsidian dagger can kill a Walker, because obsidian has magical qualities which don't exist in our world. 

...again, this is fantasy.

[BalerionTheCat]

I agree, she will bring mayhem to Westeros.

fAegon is likely to have the Faith with him. She is likely to have the Red Priests: Benerro has declared for her and he is sending Moqorro. They probably want to make use of her dragons. Euron too want to make use of her. And most of her allies (Dothrakis, Ironborns, sellswords) want to use her for indulging themselves in violence.

What will be her exact contribution to ending the Long Night? I don't know. But I don't think R'hllor and the Shadow should win.

[MostlyMoody]

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Which could also mean that people can use the candle without the candle being magical but the person has the magical power.

That means nothing. We have absolutely no evidence that is the candles that have the power and not the person that has the power. And even if the obsidian is magical you seem to forget that is a molten rock which has been frozen. Which means that you need cold to kill the others too.

So far no one in the books has had innate magical powers, except for Thoros of Myr. So I think it's safe to assume that items are magical rather than individuals themselves.

[mormont]

3 hours ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

About 70% of the forum, give or take.

There are certainly people who take this view and they certainly are very vocal about it, but the idea that they comprise even 10% of those who use the forum, let alone 70%, is wildly inaccurate.

[Fox of House McCloud]

2 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Daenerys has the means she just dont care since the ironthrone is here chair end of story

So she'll be perfectly content to win the throne (and the realm), and then just let it all fall to the Others? What?

[WSmith84]

20 minutes ago, Rupert Honeybun said:

So far no one in the books has had innate magical powers, except for Thoros of Myr. So I think it's safe to assume that items are magical rather than individuals themselves.

Well, there was that fire mage in Qaarth who climbed a flaming ladder. Maybe he had a magical item, or perhaps he did it all himself. But we've no mention of any magical item, or magic-sounding item, so...

[MostlyMoody]

1 minute ago, WSmith84 said:

Well, there was that fire mage in Qaarth who climbed a flaming ladder. Maybe he had a magical item, or perhaps he did it all himself. But we've no mention of any magical item, or magic-sounding item, so...

Damn, you got me.

[The guy from the Vale]

34 minutes ago, Rupert Honeybun said:

So far no one in the books has had innate magical powers, except for Thoros of Myr. So I think it's safe to assume that items are magical rather than individuals themselves.

The Stark children, including Jon, do have innate magical powers of warging.

[NutBurz]

I´m rooting for Daenarys, she´s acomplished more than anyone else in the story, she has all the right intentions and has learned throughout the books how to separate her morals from the morals she desires for her people, like a good prince should.

 

And that´s exactly why I´m fairly sure she will die before the end, killed by the one thing she will not be able to control - her dragons.

[Orphalesion]

I think my image of Daenerys is a bit negatively influenced by the way the show portrays her, her creepy Stockholm romance with Khal Rapist Drogo and the Mereenese Knot.

I do think she means well, but if the old theories regarding her fate in WoW ARE true and she takes back the Dothraki...then all her talk about not harming the innocent and abolishing slavery have been lies and pipe dreams. If she brings those monsters to Westeros she no better than Stannis, Robb or Euron. Just another selfish idiot who kills thousands so that they can sit on a chair and wear a metal circlet. 

I agree with others that lasting peace under Tommen (who technically as far as most of Westeros is concerned, is the only rightful king right now) but of course that's not gonna happen.

I want her to come to Westeros to fight Ice Zombies with her Dragons and so I am kind of rooting for her, but I', not sure i want to see her on the Throne and have a happy ending...

Though really what's the alternative? Tommen and Myrcella, I'm pretty sure are toast (because of the Prophecy, Cersei's stupidity will make sure it comes true, even if it wasn't genuine) I can't see Jon sitting the IT either. Stannis? Please don't make me laugh, besides if that hypocritical piss pot gets the throne, that wouldn't be a good ending either. 

The only alternative would be Aegon and we have seen too little of him to tell if he's any better.

Bottom-line, the story pretty much illustrates how much feudalism sucks.

[MostlyMoody]

30 minutes ago, theguyfromtheVale said:

The Stark children, including Jon, do have innate magical powers of warging.

True enough. However I don't see how Starks having warging abilities, would equate to some specific power that who, Maesters have when using glass candles? Or what, is it like Dragon Age and you're either a mage or not, no backsies?

[Florina Laufeyson]

1 hour ago, BalerionTheCat said:

I agree, she will bring mayhem to Westeros.

fAegon is likely to have the Faith with him. She is likely to have the Red Priests: Benerro has declared for her and he is sending Moqorro. They probably want to make use of her dragons. Euron too want to make use of her. And most of her allies (Dothrakis, Ironborns, sellswords) want to use her for indulging themselves in violence.

What will be her exact contribution to ending the Long Night? I don't know. But I don't think R'hllor and the Shadow should win.

 

I agree. Shes gonna represent a holy conflict as well as a blood conflict. On one end, it will look like blood against blood, a second Dance. But deeper, its the Seven vs R'hllor, and this is very dangerous. Chaos vs Order. Dany is chaos and bringing outsiders to Westeros. That wouldnt be bad on its own if they werent the really murdery sort. Dany possibly aligning with one of the most maligned forces in Westeros (Ironborn) doesnt help either. Lots of people are going to die and i think Dany is gonna feel pretty shitty about it at the end of the day.

46 minutes ago, TheHouseHB said:

Sexist pig!

wut

[Lord Vance II]

15 hours ago, NutBurz said:

I´m rooting for Daenarys, she´s acomplished more than anyone else in the story, she has all the right intentions and has learned throughout the books how to separate her morals from the morals she desires for her people, like a good prince should.

 

And that´s exactly why I´m fairly sure she will die before the end, killed by the one thing she will not be able to control - her dragons.

I believe the saying goes "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I don't doubt her intentions but what she thinks she's doing and what she's really doing are very different.

Where she sees liberated people, what there really is are hundreds of thousands with no means or power or ability to provide for themselves or defend themselves without her troops, which she merrily moves to the next place to do the same thing until she hits Mereen. She hasn't made Slavers Bay better, if anything it's in a much worse state. Freedom without protection of the freedom is meaningless. She has accomplished fire and blood, nothing more.  

[Westerosi Coast Gangster]

I am hoping for Dany to go batshit cray like her Dad

[the trees have eyes]

40 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said:

I believe the saying goes "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I don't doubt her intentions but what she thinks she's doing and what she's really doing are very different.

Where she sees liberated people, what there really is are hundreds of thousands with no means or power or ability to provide for themselves or defend themselves without her troops, which she merrily moves to the next place to do the same thing until she hits Mereen. She hasn't made Slavers Bay better, if anything it's in a much worse state. Freedom without protection of the freedom is meaningless. She has accomplished fire and blood, nothing more.  

This is the Meereenese knot.  GRRM wrote her into it and he needs to write her out of it.  The argument for not doing anything is pretty popular and reflects our culture's rejection of war - even wars that are intended to be for the good, e.g. Operation Enduring [Iraqi] Freedom - and cynicism about politicians' aims or abilities but back in fantasy world the characters are given free rein or we wouldn't have a story.

[CJ McLannister]

25 minutes ago, Westerosi Coast Gangster said:

I am hoping for Dany to go batshit cray like her Dad

I think she already is.

I don't root against her per se, but if she wants to be queen, she still has a hell of a lot to learn about ruling.  At this point, she's just a less sadistic Joffrey.

[John Doe]

Dany is mad. Some people may not see the subtle hints yet, but she is.

[delspark]

Against Dany. Why?

1. Take away her dragons and there will not be a single accomplishment on her own.

2. Bad leader. She abolished pit fighting in Meereen and as a result destroyed source of income of the owners and slaves.

3. Does not listen to advices of her well wishers.

4. Not a good strategist.

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

20 hours ago, kimim said:

If people could see afar without using glass candles, then they would. But they don't. They use glass candles. Similarly, a steel sword will not kill a Walker, but a dragonglass shard will. Again, you can talk about "powers of nature," but this is not how nature works in our world. This is nature magic, which is a different beast. Anyone holding an obsidian dagger can kill a Walker, because obsidian has magical qualities which don't exist in our world. 

...again, this is fantasy.

And if people were able to find their own food they wouldn't need money. The fact that they need away of doing something doesn't mean that the way has to have magic. Your argument that the dragons can kill an Other is based solely on the moniker of the thing that kills the others, hence on nothing.

18 hours ago, Rupert Honeybun said:

So far no one in the books has had innate magical powers, except for Thoros of Myr. So I think it's safe to assume that items are magical rather than individuals themselves.

Not truen. Mel, Thoros, the wood witches, Bran, Bloodraven, th COTF, the Stark children, the FM  and even the Maesters with the Valyrian chain 

 

The fact is that in the books we have no actual proof that the dragons have any effect on the Others, the only thing that we have seen that they may harm are the wights. However we cannot even be sure if the dragons will be able to survive during LN2.O. We have seen that one of Aegon's dragons have a problem to fly during a simple storm. Does anyone actualy believe that Dany's baby, untrained, uncontrolled dragons will be able to beat the Others during LN2.0?