Anyone else rooting against Dany?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

52 minutes ago, delspark said:

Against Dany. Why?

1. Take away her dragons and there will not be a single accomplishment on her own.

2. Bad leader. She abolished pit fighting in Meereen and as a result destroyed source of income of the owners and slaves.

3. Does not listen to advices of her well wishers.

4. Not a good strategist.

Agree.

1 hour ago, John Doe said:

Dany is mad. Some people may not see the subtle hints yet, but she is.

True she may not be mad exactly like her father or brothes but she isn't sane either.

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, delspark said:

Against Dany. Why?

1. Take away her dragons and there will not be a single accomplishment on her own.

2. Bad leader. She abolished pit fighting in Meereen and as a result destroyed source of income of the owners and slaves.

3. Does not listen to advices of her well wishers.

4. Not a good strategist.

 

1. Merren? Yunaki? Those are two accomplishments.

2. Being a bad leader means refusing to watch your subjects kill each other? And she didn't abolish it.

3. How so? She listens to Jorah, Barristan and the Merrenese all the time

4. She took all of Slavers Bay with minimal casualties, when was she a bad strategist?

[Duncan I Targaryen]

Yes, I was never fond of her in the books and outright can't stand her in the series. I secretly find myself rooting for (f)Aegon although I know his plot line is going to end in entropy and annihilation based on the fact they've completely bypassed him in the series. 

Having Tyrion on her side is about the only redeeming thing I can find in her at the moment. 

[Lord Vance II]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

1. Merren? Yunaki? Those are two accomplishments.

2. Being a bad leader means refusing to watch your subjects kill each other? And she didn't abolish it.

3. How so? She listens to Jorah, Barristan and the Merrenese all the time

4. She took all of Slavers Bay with minimal casualties, when was she a bad strategist?

1. What was accomplished? Putting tens of thousands of former slaves out on the streets with nothing but the clothes on their backs? Rampant hunger, murder and stealing? Dany being able to pat herself on the back for breaking their chains and prance off to the next city? (except mereen because she finally took some responsibility.)

2. Aegon the Conquorer was successful in part because he understood the importance of local customs. He let the faith as is, he accepted local Lords who would bend the knee. The (temporary) closure of the pit was basically shutting down a massive part of their culture and something like that is not how you win hearts and minds.  

3. She listens when she likes what they say, and listens increasingly less (as her paranoia begins to come through). 

4. But she can't hold them. 

 

[NutBurz]

5 hours ago, Lord Vance II said:

I believe the saying goes "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I don't doubt her intentions but what she thinks she's doing and what she's really doing are very different.

Where she sees liberated people, what there really is are hundreds of thousands with no means or power or ability to provide for themselves or defend themselves without her troops, which she merrily moves to the next place to do the same thing until she hits Mereen. She hasn't made Slavers Bay better, if anything it's in a much worse state. Freedom without protection of the freedom is meaningless. She has accomplished fire and blood, nothing more.  

 

56 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said:

1. What was accomplished? Putting tens of thousands of former slaves out on the streets with nothing but the clothes on their backs? Rampant hunger, murder and stealing? Dany being able to pat herself on the back for breaking their chains and prance off to the next city? (except mereen because she finally took some responsibility.)

2. Aegon the Conquorer was successful in part because he understood the importance of local customs. He let the faith as is, he accepted local Lords who would bend the knee. The (temporary) closure of the pit was basically shutting down a massive part of their culture and something like that is not how you win hearts and minds.  

3. She listens when she likes what they say, and listens increasingly less (as her paranoia begins to come through). 

4. But she can't hold them. 

 

Anyone who says "..but she only gave them their freedom back." can´t really fathom what it means to be a slave. She was also a teenager, with a severe lack of counselors, and a "beggar queen" who started out with four great warriors and now has a huge army that seems to disagree their freedom is meaningless.

She´s not a stateswoman yet. But then, neither is Cersei, and she has everything going on for her that Daenarys never had, including a kingdom handed to her in a silver platter and a brilliant statesman for a father. Maybe Dany eventually caves in, but so far she´s a much better prospect than any of the contenders for the Iron Throne; and I´m counting Stannis there, cause if one can maybe fault Dany for not fully understanding her people´s customs, Stannis is filled with that guilt. Daenarys has plenty of time to grow, like she has in the last book.

I don´t see the deterioration in her relationship with her advisors that you mention. She marries one of the former slavers and keeps Tyrion "dog of usurper"´s counsel. If she only gave her ears to her counselors, though, she wouldn´t be much different than a weak king like Tommen.

And she didn´t try to keep them. She tried to keep Mereen, and she´s kept it. And she´s found ways to be seen by most of the population as a savior instead of a conqueror. That´s textbook conquering. She´s refrained from exterminating the opposition because deep down she does realise she can´t govern Mereen without the rich. She doesn´t know how to handle them, because she´s a child who never governed a city, but her choices are better than those that most children would do if left to govern a city.

I´d like the narrative about Daenarys becoming a villain, I might welcome it if it comes to happen, but I don´t see it. I also don´t think there´s room in the story for another evil queen. Cersei is plenty.

[John Doe]

2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

1. Merren? Yunaki? Those are two accomplishments.

2. Being a bad leader means refusing to watch your subjects kill each other? And she didn't abolish it.

3. How so? She listens to Jorah, Barristan and the Merrenese all the time

4. She took all of Slavers Bay with minimal casualties, when was she a bad strategist?

1. Yunkai? Her biggest enemy right now? Mereen, where se bankcrupted the city?

2. If they do so voluntarily and it is a tradition to them that can help keeping them from harming your soldiers or innocent  subjects, probably yes. 

3. And often enough she refuses to listen to sound advice. 

4. What parts of Slavers Bay does she currently hold?

[Ruhail]

On the show yes because, the showrunners pander to her so much and just make everything fall into her lap unearned and have her make so many horrible cringey speeches about taking back a kingdom her father was rightfully removed from.

[Hugorfonics]

1 hour ago, Lord Vance II said:

1. What was accomplished? Putting tens of thousands of former slaves out on the streets with nothing but the clothes on their backs? Rampant hunger, murder and stealing? Dany being able to pat herself on the back for breaking their chains and prance off to the next city? (except mereen because she finally took some responsibility.)

2. Aegon the Conquorer was successful in part because he understood the importance of local customs. He let the faith as is, he accepted local Lords who would bend the knee. The (temporary) closure of the pit was basically shutting down a massive part of their culture and something like that is not how you win hearts and minds.  

3. She listens when she likes what they say, and listens increasingly less (as her paranoia begins to come through). 

4. But she can't hold them. 

 

1. Yes. A former slave is a better life then a refugee. Prancing off to the next city was not the most noble thing, however she later rejected her advisors advice and held on to Merren.

2. Aegon I's campaign was longer then Danys campaign in Slavers Bay, its not clear that she failed. She wears the damn floppy ears and permanently opened the pit, she'll eat dog and wash a scumbags foot, she does not reject the culture.

3. Her advisors aren't always correct. Your rooting against her because she's paranoid? So are half the characters.

4. She holds Merren, her only goal.

23 minutes ago, John Doe said:

1. Yunkai? Her biggest enemy right now? Mereen, where se bankcrupted the city?

2. If they do so voluntarily and it is a tradition to them that can help keeping them from harming your soldiers or innocent  subjects, probably yes. 

3. And often enough she refuses to listen to sound advice. 

4. What parts of Slavers Bay does she currently hold?

1. I'd say that's Volantis. She did make accomplishments in Yunkai, they just weren't decivise. Who the hell cares about money? The entire economy of Merren, short of a few olives, is evil

2. Strange. I have no problem with cockfights or dogfights, though I wouldn't want to watch one. Humans are different, either way Dany agrees with you.

3. Such as?

4. Merren

[CJ McLannister]

She had 163 reputable citizens brutally executed for the crime of living in a society that accepted slavery.  Then she wonders why the other reputable citizens might be actively undermining her rule.  

She conquers cities in the name of justice, but is appalled that people in Westeros might not accept her right to be queen based on her name.

I'm not sure if it's madness yet, but there's a kind of cognitive dissonance there that I think was a common theme among the Targaryens.  They don't feel that they are subject to the same judgement that they pass on others.  Because they have dragons.

[BalerionTheCat]

21 hours ago, Florina Laufeyson said:

I agree. Shes gonna represent a holy conflict as well as a blood conflict. On one end, it will look like blood against blood, a second Dance. But deeper, its the Seven vs R'hllor, and this is very dangerous. Chaos vs Order. Dany is chaos and bringing outsiders to Westeros. That wouldnt be bad on its own if they werent the really murdery sort. Dany possibly aligning with one of the most maligned forces in Westeros (Ironborn) doesnt help either. Lots of people are going to die and i think Dany is gonna feel pretty shitty about it at the end of the day.

I forgot the Pale Mare. Her armies could bring it with them.

Some of her slaves are good people, at least when she is there to guide them. But they have not understood the concept of freedom. By themselves, they believe that killing their old masters allow them to become the new masters. And they are worse than the previous, because they have blood revenge in mind.

Maybe it will not concern Westeros, but the Red Priests are, in her name, raising the slaves against the masters, in Volantis and probably everywhere else in Essos (Benerro has sent forth the word from Volantis). She is not evil herself, I don't think. But her ambitions are the cause of innumerable deaths.

[Elisabetta Duò]

On 30 maggio 2016 at 7:15 PM, Bright Blue Eyes said:

About 70% of the forum, give or take.

For the very reasons you mentioned and a couple additional ones.

I don't root for her but many people do, I think 70% against her is too much

7 hours ago, delspark said:

Against Dany. Why?

1. Take away her dragons and there will not be a single accomplishment on her own.

2. Bad leader. She abolished pit fighting in Meereen and as a result destroyed source of income of the owners and slaves.

3. Does not listen to advices of her well wishers.

4. Not a good strategist.

 

Agreed.

She never earned anything (she was born Targ, the eggs were given to her as a gift, she didn't win them or conquered them or anything and they just heated and opened for her and without the dragons the dothraki would have never respected her), she is unable to see the in-the-long-run consequences of her actions, refuses compromise on principle which is something no ruler can afford to disdain, she is stupidly idealistic but at the same time astonishingly cruel, acts according to her emotional response to situations when logic would be required, she's demagogic and basically wants to be 'loved' and blindly admired by the people (terrible goals for a ruler), she's self-centered to the point that it blinds her and she has lost / is gonna lose the only advisors who talk sense (Tyrion & possibly even Varys), as soon as they fully realize she's out of control.

 

 

[JonisHenryTudor]

Yes. Because I don't like people in the real world who have similar personalities. 

 

If her arc was returning to Westeros to re-establish her family's house, then perhaps I can bite. I did like her in GoT, or most of it. But since she endured an attitude transformation among other things, I cannot stand her. Now her goal is to amass an army and destroy everyone who opposes her. 

 

I am not going to get into a long argument with dany fans, because that is about as productive as climbing a 20 story mountain of ice with olive oil rubbed all over your feet.

 

But: 

 

1. Terrible leader; Brat; self-entitled (no not everyone in Westeros takes it as far as she does).

2. Slaves. Freed them out of convenience. She needed an army. She conveniently freed men and is now willing to send them to their deaths for a chunk of metal. Ask the question. Had Ilyrio had the ships ready, would Dany have stayed in Essos to "save the poor people"? Doubtful. 

3. Refuses to listen. (teenager is not an excuse, teens in medieval England were expected to carry more responsibility). 

4. Basically the fictional version of Imperial America. "We have nukes (dragons), and if you don't follow my rules and beliefs we will invade/destroy you (Essos)"... "Now give me your oil/ports (ships/men), so we can make the US great (House Targ.). As a disclaimer, I am actually from the US, and I am not entirely anti-war...but the idea is close enough. 

[YOVMO]

On May 30, 2016 at 9:18 AM, Lord Vance II said:

First off, let's look at Dany's possible invasion force. It consists of eunick (sp?) slave soldiers (not slaves anymore but what difference does that make to Westerosi?), PROBABLY Dothraki, Ironborn and Essosi mercenaries. Its like a whos-who of people who would terrify the Westerosi smallfolk..not to mention the dragons. What leader would unleash Dothraki on her own people? 

Speaking of the smallfolk, Dany has no upside for them. As has been said many times in the books, smallfolk don't really give a shit who is on the throne as long as their crops come in and their children have a future. There are no chains to break, they're as free as peasants can be. All Dany has to offer is another round of fire and blood, more lost crops, more dead sons and fathers, more raped mothers and daughters. I think Dany expects to smallfolk to flock to her...and I think "the dragon" will be awakened when they don't like they did in Slaves Bay. 

I don't think any of the greathouses would bend the knee to Dany, the daughter of the Mad King who has made her goal their demise. Could the combined might of Westeros stop Dany and her army? Maybe (I hope so) but probably not. Though dragons aren't quite as terrifying as they were during Aegon's Conquest because Dany's aren't nearly as large and people now know that they can be killed. 

Add to that the fact that she has proved to be a terrible ruler. Slavers bay is a disaster because of her. Her obsession with stamping out slavers is certainly honorable, but with no alternative shes basically freeing slaves to a life of squalor and even further marginalization. The masters still have all the property, all the wealth, all the power. The smallfolk have freedom and not much else. Her cities are rife with crime and injustice. The situation is different in Westeros, but if she can't keep one city in order how could she rule a massive continent without just burning all who oppose her (Aerys style)

The best hope for Westeros is if Aegon (who I believe is the real deal) is able to unite Westeros (or at least southern Westeros) against her and attack her as she tries to land through the dragon fire. But at this point, with the countryside trying to recover from the War of 5 Kings, a bad winter coming and the dead along with it, Dany is the last think Westeros needs. Though it plays into my belief that the "winner" of the Game of Thrones will have a hollow victory, dominion over a pile of ash. 

(I know she will most likely be key to the defeat of the Others, and it might win her big points, but she would have to wait until the North was totally overrun for people in the south to really care since they believe its a bunch of Northern nonsense anyways.

Thoughts?

I am with you 100%. Also, assume that dany lands. The dragons don't burn everything. The dothraki don't kill and rape everything that walks. Euron doesn't show anyone what they do to Maesters on Victarians ship. The sociopath eunuch army that kills babies in their mothers arms as a right of passage behave, Then what. She literally considers everyone traitors anyway. She would probably bring fire and blood to all the great houses and their vessel houses. I am really hoping she is an enormous red herring and I feel she is. I can't imagine GRRM would spend 30 years writing tens of thousands of pages of political intrigue just to have the final punch out be "oh yeah, then this 15 year old girl shows up with savages, pirates, eunuchs and the westerosi equivalent of WMD's.

[Southron Knight]

In a word, yes. I despise Dany for reasons I cannot be bothered to discuss here. I'm hoping she will go to Asshai and return as a proper villain. Makes more sense than having a heroine with dragons and Unsullied. The hero is supposed to be the underdog.

[the trees have eyes]

Oh great, another Dany hate thread in full swing.

5 hours ago, CJ McLannister said:

She had 163 reputable citizens brutally executed for the crime of living in a society that accepted slavery.  Then she wonders why the other reputable citizens might be actively undermining her rule.  

She conquers cities in the name of justice, but is appalled that people in Westeros might not accept her right to be queen based on her name.

I'm not sure if it's madness yet, but there's a kind of cognitive dissonance there that I think was a common theme among the Targaryens.  They don't feel that they are subject to the same judgement that they pass on others.  Because they have dragons.

I'm sure you know why she executed 163 of Meereen's Great Masters.  This appalling white-washing of the crucifixion and disembowelling of 163 children seems the only cognitive dissonance here.  She didn't execute people for owning slaves she executed people for murdering children yet you think its ok to call them "reputable".  Sheesh.

2 hours ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

I don't root for her but many people do, I think 70% against her is too much

Agreed.

She never earned anything (she was born Targ, the eggs were given to her as a gift, she didn't win them or conquered them or anything and they just heated and opened for her and without the dragons the dothraki would have never respected her), she is unable to see the in-the-long-run consequences of her actions, refuses compromise on principle which is something no ruler can afford to disdain, she is stupidly idealistic but at the same time astonishingly cruel, acts according to her emotional response to situations when logic would be required, she's demagogic and basically wants to be 'loved' and blindly admired by the people (terrible goals for a ruler), she's self-centered to the point that it blinds her and she has lost / is gonna lose the only advisors who talk sense (Tyrion & possibly even Varys), as soon as they fully realize she's out of control.

Really?  You aren't going to give her any credit for the plan to hatch the eggs or for having the courage to walk into a funeral pyre?  You may not like her but you surely see she earned the dragons and the Dothraki's trust.  As for plot gifts, well, as Jorah said, Illyrio would have sat on the eggs himself if he thought they were likely to hatch.  But he didn't.  And despite what you say they didn't hatch themselves.

2 hours ago, JonisHenryTudor said:

Yes. Because I don't like people in the real world who have similar personalities. 

 

If her arc was returning to Westeros to re-establish her family's house, then perhaps I can bite. I did like her in GoT, or most of it. But since she endured an attitude transformation among other things, I cannot stand her. Now her goal is to amass an army and destroy everyone who opposes her. 

 

I am not going to get into a long argument with dany fans, because that is about as productive as climbing a 20 story mountain of ice with olive oil rubbed all over your feet.

 

But: 

 

1. Terrible leader; Brat; self-entitled (no not everyone in Westeros takes it as far as she does).

2. Slaves. Freed them out of convenience. She needed an army. She conveniently freed men and is now willing to send them to their deaths for a chunk of metal. Ask the question. Had Ilyrio had the ships ready, would Dany have stayed in Essos to "save the poor people"? Doubtful. 

3. Refuses to listen. (teenager is not an excuse, teens in medieval England were expected to carry more responsibility). 

4. Basically the fictional version of Imperial America. "We have nukes (dragons), and if you don't follow my rules and beliefs we will invade/destroy you (Essos)"... "Now give me your oil/ports (ships/men), so we can make the US great (House Targ.). As a disclaimer, I am actually from the US, and I am not entirely anti-war...but the idea is close enough. 

Sigh.  I don't have the appetite for yet another one of these but don't you think Meereen is all about her wearing her floppy ears?  How you think that translates into destroying anyone who opposes her is beyond me.  When she offered Yunkai terms and they accepted she moved on.  When she took Meereen she married into the ruling aristocracy and refused to harm the hostages she took.  Why ignore all this with the knee-jerk "destroy everyone who opposes her" demonisation?

A self entitled brat.  Whatever, man.  She has made precisely zero movements towards Westeros so let's see what she does before burning her at the stake for being a witch.  If you aren't on board with the concept of hereditary succession then you must hate every noble and royal figure in the books and surely you give Aegon, the guy who has actually invaded Westeros and started killing people in the Stormlands, a ton more shit than you do Dany.  Oh you don't?  Well, well.

If you believe she freed the slaves out of convenience - and you actually mean only the Unsullied of Astapor by that - then you might want to explain why she went stright to Yunkai afterwards, a city famed for training bedslaves, and freed a host of non-combatants, a rag-tag rabble of "useless mouths".  Oh wait, maybe she really doesn't like the concept of human bondage and it's not merely a cynical ploy.

Just some balance for once in assessing Dany rather than this myopic insistence on only seeing things in the worst possible light would be really nice.

1 hour ago, YOVMO said:

I am with you 100%. Also, assume that dany lands. The dragons don't burn everything. The dothraki don't kill and rape everything that walks. Euron doesn't show anyone what they do to Maesters on Victarians ship. The sociopath eunuch army that kills babies in their mothers arms as a right of passage behave, Then what. She literally considers everyone traitors anyway. She would probably bring fire and blood to all the great houses and their vessel houses. I am really hoping she is an enormous red herring and I feel she is. I can't imagine GRRM would spend 30 years writing tens of thousands of pages of political intrigue just to have the final punch out be "oh yeah, then this 15 year old girl shows up with savages, pirates, eunuchs and the westerosi equivalent of WMD's.

Woah, slow that bandwagon down will you?  She has been conditioned to consider the "usurper's dogs" who murdered her father, niece, nephew and brother's wife, and killed her brother in battle, and who caused her disinheritance and exile as terrible people.  Not altogether surprising.  So you can chalk up Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane (neither of whom she has ever heard of and both of whom are dead), Tywin & Jaime Lannister, Ned Stark, Jon Arryn, Robert Barratheon and Hoster Tully.......all of whom are dead barring Jaime.

So there is no one for her to bring fire and blood to..........

There are remarkably few individuals for her to focus on and I believe the experience of her early life and Meereen, some proper information about her father and Robert's rebellion combined with some good counsel will lead her to conclude that vengeance is empty, that there is no one to visit it upon anyway (save Jaime) and that if she wants to rule Westeros she will need to work with the nobility not exterminate them.  It seems so obvious but this forum can't possibly entertain it as it's not edgy enough and doesn't subvert any tropes or confound any expectations.  Well, she ain't mad and she ain't bad but you'll have to learn to live with her all the same, just as you have for the last five books.

And do you seriously think GRRM spent 30 years and several thousand pages writing about Dany and the dragons for them just to be a red herring?  They are a big part of the story, not the whole story by any means, it's a marvellously complex and interwoven construction but they are a big part of it nonetheless.  Just accept it

[YOVMO]

3 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

Woah, slow that bandwagon down will you?  She has been conditioned to consider the "usurper's dogs" who murdered her father, niece nephew and brother's wife, and killed her brother in battle, as terrible people.  Not altogether surprising. 

 

3 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

 

Agreed which would still make her an appalling ruler. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

 

So you can chalk up Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane (neither of whom she has ever heard of and both of whom are dead), Tywin & Jaime Lannister, Ned Stark, Jon Arryn, Robert Barratheon and Hoster Tully all of whom are dead barring Jaime.

Uhm, what about all the Baratheon and Lannister and Stark Bannerman who I would assume equally culpable. When Robert called his banners it wasn't just him who showed up. I can totally see dany with her juvenile sense of justice (for her own reasons of course) raining fire down on House Dondarrion. What about all the Westernmen who followed Tywin to the city gates? Now that twin is dead thats all forgiven?

I can see a plausible situation where a young, immature, unexperienced and angry dany basically shows up with her dotharaki army and three dragons and takes out all the major houses of westeros and their vessel houses. Honestly, I am not trying to hate here, but does she seem like the kind that will let the vessel houses who took out her family survive? She may hold Dorne, because they seem less culpable. 

Further, she is totally unfit to rule Westeros. Does she know anything of westerosi law? Of westerosi custom? No, just what her psycho brothers and the older man who was in love with her told her. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

So there is no one for her to bring fire and blood to..........

There are remarkably few individuals for her to focus on and I believe the experience of her early life and Meereen, some proper information about her father and Robert's rebellion combined with some good counsel will lead her to conclude that vengeance is empty, that there is no one to visit it upon anyway (save Jaime) and that if she wants to rule Westeros she will need to work with the nobility not exterminate them. 

 

3 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

 

Yes, this would be right. However, she just doesn't seem to have the maturity. Maybe one day she will realize vengeance is empty but in the meantime she will have an army of savages -- and believe me she isn't winning any friends with an army of dothraki, some iron born pirates, the unsullied and three dragons. At best she will be feared and it is almost certain she will be hated you know once the dothraki do exactly what the dothraki do.

 

3 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

It seems so obvious but this forum can't possibly entertain it as it's not edgy enough and doesn't subvert any tropes or confound any expectaions.  Well, she ain't mad and she ain't bad but you'll have to learn to live with her all the same, just as you have for the last five books.

I honestly do not believe she will survive to see westeros. 

 

3 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

And do you seriously think GRRM spent 30 years and several thousand pages writing about Dany and the dragons for them just to be a red herring? 

Yes I do. I think it will be brilliant when she has a totally anticlimactic death. It might be one of the most ground breaking things in modern literature.

3 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

 

 

 

 

They are a big part of the story, not the whole story by any means, it's a marvellously complex and interwoven construction but they are a big part of it nonetheless.  Just accept it

 

I just don't see it. Dany seems boring to me. She is basically Dany ex Machine. When GRRM was asking about LOTR well how did King Aragorn handle tax issues and saying he didn't want to have a boring Ewoks on Endor happy ending with no subtly or intelligence I honestly believe he was talking specifically about how boring it would be for Dany to take the throne.

[Southron Knight]

14 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

Oh great, another Dany hate thread in full swing.

I'm sure you know why she executed 163 of Meereen's Great Masters.  This appalling white-washing of the crucifixion and disembowelling of 163 children seems the only cognitive dissonance here.  She didn't execute people for owning slaves she executed people for murdering children yet you think its ok to call them "reputable".  Sheesh.

Really?  You aren't going to give her any credit for the plan to hatch the eggs or for having the courage to walk into a funeral pyre?  You may not like her but you surely see she earned the dragons and the Dothraki's trust.  As for plot gifts, well, as Jorah said, Illyrio would have sat on the eggs himself if he thought they were likely to hatch.  But he didn't.  And despite what you say they didn't hatch themselves.

Sigh.  I don't have the appetite for yet another one of these but don't you think Meereen is all about her wearing her floppy ears?  How you think that translates into destroying anyone who opposes her is beyond me.  When she offered Yunkai terms and they accepted she moved on.  When she took Meereen she married into the ruling aristocracy and refused to harm the hostages she took.  Why ignore all this with the knee-jerk "destroy everyone who opposes her" demonisation?

A self entitled brat.  Whatever, man.  She has made precisely zero movements towards Westeros so let's see what she does before burning her at the stake for being a witch.  If you aren't on board with the concept of hereditary succession then you must hate every noble and royal figure in the books and surely you give Aegon, the guy who has actually invaded Westeros and started killing people in the Stormlands, a ton more shit than you do Dany.  Oh you don't?  Well, well.

If you believe she freed the slaves out of convenience - and you actually mean only the Unsullied of Astapor by that - then you might want to explain why she went stright to Yunkai afterwards, a city famed for training bedslaves, and freed a host of non-combatants, a rag-tag rabble of "useless mouths".  Oh wait, maybe she really doesn't like the concept of human bondage and it's not merely a cynical ploy.

Just some balance for once in assessing Dany rather than this myopic insistence on only seeing things in the worst possible light would be really nice.

Woah, slow that bandwagon down will you?  She has been conditioned to consider the "usurper's dogs" who murdered her father, niece, nephew and brother's wife, and killed her brother in battle, and who caused her disinheritance and exile as terrible people.  Not altogether surprising.  So you can chalk up Amory Lorch and Gregor Clegane (neither of whom she has ever heard of and both of whom are dead), Tywin & Jaime Lannister, Ned Stark, Jon Arryn, Robert Barratheon and Hoster Tully.......all of whom are dead barring Jaime.

So there is no one for her to bring fire and blood to..........

There are remarkably few individuals for her to focus on and I believe the experience of her early life and Meereen, some proper information about her father and Robert's rebellion combined with some good counsel will lead her to conclude that vengeance is empty, that there is no one to visit it upon anyway (save Jaime) and that if she wants to rule Westeros she will need to work with the nobility not exterminate them.  It seems so obvious but this forum can't possibly entertain it as it's not edgy enough and doesn't subvert any tropes or confound any expectations.  Well, she ain't mad and she ain't bad but you'll have to learn to live with her all the same, just as you have for the last five books.

And do you seriously think GRRM spent 30 years and several thousand pages writing about Dany and the dragons for them just to be a red herring?  They are a big part of the story, not the whole story by any means, it's a marvellously complex and interwoven construction but they are a big part of it nonetheless.  Just accept it

Oh great, another Dany fanboy in full swing.

[Richard Writhen]

I'm rooting for her. She can be King Rickon's queen.

[the trees have eyes]

5 minutes ago, Southron Knight said:

Oh great, another Dany fanboy in full swing.

I'm blown away by your intelligence and arguments.  But like I said asking for balance in assessing her is pointless with people with a certain mindset.  Fanboy?  Ugh.  I enjoy the series and most of the characters in it.  So what?

[JonisHenryTudor]

16 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

I'm blown away by your intelligence and arguments.  But like I said asking for balance in assessing her is pointless with people with a certain mindset.  Fanboy?  Ugh.  I enjoy the series and most of the characters in it.  So what?

As I said above, I have no desire to get into another argument with a dany fan over things that will never get resolved. You think she succeeded, and I do not. That is not a narrow view, that is called a difference of opinion over a character. The reality is no matter the volume of evidence or anything will convert you, so I will not waste my time attempting to do so. There is no point in expanding on things and drawing this thread out to 70 pages when it will not change anything. I answered the OP's question with simple points. I could expand, but I simply do not feel like it. The OP asked if anyone is rooting against Dany. That is a simple question that begs a simple answer. 

 

 

For once, it would be nice if people who do not like Dany can say so without her rabid fans becoming offended.....