DCEU: The Wings of Liberty Have Lost Some Feathers

[dbunting]

7 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

I haven't seen Wonder Woman yet, but with all the good reviews and the word of mouth saying she is really...heroic? I wonder if she should be the face of the Justice League franchise (instead of Superman). While he was always the big hero of the group, I think this iteration of Wonder Woman could take that role. I'm excited for the new movie--waiting to see it with my son--and I think Gal Gadot was so good in BvS, she should just be the focal point of these movies.

My memory is absolute shit sometimes. There was a Justice League trailer playing with WW and I don't remember Superman even being in it. It was Batman, WW, Cyborg, Aquaman, and The Flash. Again, I may just not be remembering him.

[Myrddin]

19 minutes ago, dbunting said:

My memory is absolute shit sometimes. There was a Justice League trailer playing with WW and I don't remember Superman even being in it. It was Batman, WW, Cyborg, Aquaman, and The Flash. Again, I may just not be remembering him.

Superman wasn't in the trailer. He's dead.

 

(ok, we all know he's coming back)

[dbunting]

2 hours ago, Myrddin said:

Superman wasn't in the trailer. He's dead.

 

(ok, we all know he's coming back)

Oh yeah, I forgot they actually expect people to think he is dead.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

10 hours ago, dbunting said:

My memory is absolute shit sometimes. There was a Justice League trailer playing with WW and I don't remember Superman even being in it. It was Batman, WW, Cyborg, Aquaman, and The Flash. Again, I may just not be remembering him.

It makes me think they're going to try to bring him back in grand, heroic fashion--but this version has been a flop (in my opinion). Might as well center on what works with this universe, and so far, that's consistently been Wonder Woman. She stole BvS for me--made it so I might, possibly have some small desire to watch it again someday. She was awesome. I'd rather watch her take on Doomsday, Darkseid, Braniac, with the support of the "others."

[red snow]

On 05/06/2017 at 2:33 PM, polishgenius said:

Well obviously they're going to center Justice League round Batman, not Supes. But it'll be interesting to see if WW gets a more prominent role going forward given the reception.


I'm also curious about how they handle the sequel. WW hasn't got a particularly strong rogues gallery or, in my opinion, supporting cast, and that I know of no classic individual stories they can look to for inspiration. Doing something with Circe would be the obvious route, but I'd be apprehensive since I don't find her interesting at all. But we'll see. By the sounds of this (haven't seen it yet, not out here till the fucking 14th ffs), they've earned some trust whatever they do.

Me, I'd love to see DC generally re-framing Vandal Savage as an antithesis of Wonder Woman the way Darkseid has become for Superman, but that doesn't seem likely.

I think from BvS alone they'd know to give Wonder Woman plenty of screen time. If they have some last minute alterations then I'd be amazed if Joss Whedon didn't focus on her.

Villain wise, Cheetah is the only other one that comes to mind but I'm not sure you could make a movie around her. Maxwell Lord might prove a different antagonist for her. But I think they may be as well sticking with Greek mythology, eg Circe, Medusa, Minotaur and Apollo. They've all been in the comics at some point but I guess there could be a danger of it getting repetitive with gods. Or incorporate some of the new gods by kirby which could happen once we've had the Justice League film.

She worked really well against world war soldiers so maybe giving her some real-life foes could work? eg from another era in the last 100 years.

[Slurktan]

Spitballing here... but what if she gets a villain that is the Kryptonian that was missing in Man of Steel?  She does note in BvS that she has experience killing things from other worlds and I doubt she meant Ares.

[Bastard of Boston]

This topic should be interesting the next couple days. With Comic Con in progress, lots of movie rumors before the WB panel tomorrow.

THR is reporting that the WB want to phase Ben Affleck out.

It wouldn't surprise me if we didn't see him in Matt Reeves' Batman. He went from directing, writing, and starring to writing and starring to..starring?

http://screenrant.com/harley-quinn-vs-joker-movie-spinoff/

Between Gotham City Sirens and Suicide Squad 2, I feel like this is overkill. Gotham City Sirens should be the Harley v Joker movie, in my opinion.

DC announced a Shazam movie...which won't feature Black Adam, who is set to have his own movie still.

Again, I feel like it's overkill.

[Bastard of Boston]

Loving this Justice League poster

[Bastard of Boston]

News from panel: Flash: Flashpoint, Suicide Squad 2, The Batman, Aquaman, Justice League Dark, and Green Lantern Corp. are the next films on the slate. Affleck denied rumors that he's leaving. They also confirmed Wonder Woman 2 is a go.

[AverageGuy]

46 minutes ago, Bastard of Boston said:

News from panel: Flash: Flashpoint, Suicide Squad 2, The Batman, Aquaman, Justice League Dark, and Green Lantern Corp. are the next films on the slate. Affleck denied rumors that he's leaving. They also confirmed Wonder Woman 2 is a go.

The trailer doesn't excite me. Not sure if that's because of the trailer itself or all the biases I'm bringing into DC movies now though. 

Like the Joker vs Harley Quinn movie. In Suicide Squad, the Joker was one of the worst bits.

[Calibandar]

Man of Steel at the end of that trailer? Cavill is supposed to be in it isn't he.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Lol at the amount of focus on Wonder Woman in that trailer! You can smell the marketing team! 

Also notice the lack of batman! Interesting.

 

This still looks deeply boring. I hope it dies a slow death

[Knight of Ashes]

So the Flash movie will be an adaptation of Flashpoint, huh? Hope they don't balk in their portrayal of Flashpoint Wonder Woman.

Funny that Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne is more suited for the Thomas Wayne version of Batsy.

[polishgenius]

I'm on Leap's side. I don't like everything about it (still don't like the depiction of Flash's powers, though he seems fun, if un-Wally-West like, some of the effects still need work, I'm not sure that Supes, in-universe, has earned the adulation given him here), but it looks like there's a good film in there, which hopefully they can dig out rather than obscure in editing etc. Plus it doesn't look like a Marvel ripoff (although it does look like they've gone with this plot to introduce certain things to the universe before Marvel gets Infinity War out).

The red skies are a nice touch.



I wonder if the Flash movie will have anything to do with Flashpoint bar the name. It'd certainly be an extremely bold move to introduce such a thing this early in the game, and to fit it into one film would be very hard.

[red snow]

23 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Lol at the amount of focus on Wonder Woman in that trailer! You can smell the marketing team! 

Also notice the lack of batman! Interesting.

 

This still looks deeply boring. I hope it dies a slow death

Yeah, they at least know how to respond to critical (and financial) reception I would be pretty surprised if the reshoots didn't happen to involve Gil Gadot a lot too. I have no problem with this as she is without doubt the DCEU's "iron man" even though they wanted it to be Affleck's Batman. Nothing wrong with course correcting/responding to what works though.

21 hours ago, Knight of Ashes said:

So the Flash movie will be an adaptation of Flashpoint, huh? Hope they don't balk in their portrayal of Flashpoint Wonder Woman.

Funny that Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne is more suited for the Thomas Wayne version of Batsy.

Well Age of Ulton had nothing in common with the comic besides featuring Ultron so I'm not getting too excited about what the cinematic version of "Flashpoint" will be. I suspect the animated film a couple of years ago will be the more faithful (and rather entertaining) version.

Although Flashpoint could be a way of getting a different Batman in (according to rumours which Afleck denies) that isn't Nightwing (who's getting his own film)  comic spoilers

in the form of Thomas Wayne. They could even get "Negan" to take up the role again. If not as a permanent replacement they should have him for Flashpoint.

If they did a loyal Flashpoint adaptation the film would essentially be another Justice League film in that it would need all the characters to work. Crap that the Flash wouldn't get his own film but Civil War still worked as a Cap 2.5 at least.

I can't help but wonder if all the new scenes of the characters having fun and making jokes were the product of Whedon though? The new quips etc felt very "him". I think it's a good move getting the guy who got "crossover films" working to add some glue (fun) to Snyders plot/style - although the earlier trailers suggested Snyder was attempting this too. Nothing wrong with Whedon adding some more "banter" though.

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

I'm on Leap's side. I don't like everything about it (still don't like the depiction of Flash's powers, though he seems fun, if un-Wally-West like, some of the effects still need work, I'm not sure that Supes, in-universe, has earned the adulation given him here)

Oddly for me, I like that they are doing something different with Flash's powers. Even if it doesn't ultimately work they at least escape the Quicksilvers and TV Flash version.I sort of like the energy depiction around him. It seems like it's mixing the usual super-speed depictions of "moves really fast for the observer" or "the observers move really slow from the Flash's view". I can see why people might miss the traditional depiction though.

I liked the trailer - I'm not super excited but I'm cautiously optimistic. The trailers are improving as they come out and with this one I'm getting a feel for most of the new characters. Aquaman looks like he has Thor's sense of fun with Iron Man's smug confidence and The Flash is filling out the rookie newbie role. Cyborg is still a bit of a blank slate but that's still my impression of him from the comics.

 

[polishgenius]

27 minutes ago, red snow said:

Oddly for me, I like that they are doing something different with Flash's powers. Even if it doesn't ultimately work they at least escape the Quicksilvers and TV Flash version.

I don't really have a problem with trying something different, and they were a bit unfortunate in the Quicksilvers and their own TV show getting their first (and the show absolutely nailed the live-action look of his powers), but so far I think they've mis-stepped. My biggest problem is he has much too big an effect on things around him, plus it seems to take him a second to spool up. It just ain't clicking for me so far.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

9 hours ago, red snow said:

Yeah, they at least know how to respond to critical (and financial) reception I would be pretty surprised if the reshoots didn't happen to involve Gil Gadot a lot too. I have no problem with this as she is without doubt the DCEU's "iron man" even though they wanted it to be Affleck's Batman. Nothing wrong with course correcting/responding to what works though.

 

 

Well thats one way to look at it!

I don't think its really ever a good idea to completely hack apart a movie halfway through making it in order to respond to what you perceive to be public opinion. This movie seems to change every couple of months depending on how WB feel the market is moving. First it was a dark action movie, then it was a light comedic buddy movie.. now it appears to be a fantastical scifi blockbuster. Next week it will be a low budget rom com. 

[polishgenius]

Changing the marketing doesn't necessarily mean the movie is changing. Like, editing and pick-ups might up or under the amount of funnies (and probably will), but that's fairly normal really and is only getting focus here because WB ballsed it up so much on BvS and Suicide Squad. Which, fair enough, it's a cause for concern, but it's not a recipe for failure out of hand, like anything else in movies it can be done badly or well. Like, by all accounts Rogue One was _really_ rejigged in post with little input from the original director, and that got a very good reaction.

Past that it was always going to be a fantastical scifi blockbuster and I have no idea how you could have possibly thought it isn't...

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

10 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Changing the marketing doesn't necessarily mean the movie is changing. Like, editing and pick-ups might up or under the amount of funnies (and probably will), but that's fairly normal really and is only getting focus here because WB ballsed it up so much on BvS and Suicide Squad. Which, fair enough, it's a cause for concern, but it's not a recipe for failure out of hand, like anything else in movies it can be done badly or well. Like, by all accounts Rogue One was _really_ rejigged in post with little input from the original director, and that got a very good reaction.

Past that it was always going to be a fantastical scifi blockbuster and I have no idea how you could have possibly thought it isn't...

Fair point, but I've got a feeling its not just the marketing that is changing, as you mentioned Suicide Squad in particular appears to have been completely rejigged halfway through and is maybe one of the worst movies I've ever seen because of it. I think that WB do still have problems with how they make movies and how much interference they put in. 

Rogue one is an interesting one because it got a good reception and is still a good movie, but its hard to say if the changes that were made actually improved the movie. Reading about some of them you get the feeling that actually they weren't all that helpful. 

What I meant was that they were clearly focussing heavily on the fantasy elements of Aquaman and WW in the latest trailer, something that was dialled right back in the original trailer. You do get the sense they are changing things on the hoof to fit the current public mood, rather than to tell the best story. 

[red snow]

9 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I don't really have a problem with trying something different, and they were a bit unfortunate in the Quicksilvers and their own TV show getting their first (and the show absolutely nailed the live-action look of his powers), but so far I think they've mis-stepped. My biggest problem is he has much too big an effect on things around him, plus it seems to take him a second to spool up. It just ain't clicking for me so far.

I agree the TV show nailed his powers (even the faithful keeping of nonsensical elements) and X-men Quicksilver is more "Flash" than comic Quicksilver.

I'm releived his powers aren't suit based which is what i initially thought (although I guess he wasn't in a suit in the (trailers) BvS scenes. At least he doesn't appear to be a megalomaniac in the film unlike his TV counterpart.

23 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Changing the marketing doesn't necessarily mean the movie is changing. Like, editing and pick-ups might up or under the amount of funnies (and probably will), but that's fairly normal really and is only getting focus here because WB ballsed it up so much on BvS and Suicide Squad. Which, fair enough, it's a cause for concern, but it's not a recipe for failure out of hand, like anything else in movies it can be done badly or well. Like, by all accounts Rogue One was _really_ rejigged in post with little input from the original director, and that got a very good reaction.

Past that it was always going to be a fantastical scifi blockbuster and I have no idea how you could have possibly thought it isn't...

Rogue One was the example I was going to use. Maybe Han Solo will turn out to be another. But I think this kind of thing happens more often than we realise and that it's only in the age of "knowing everything" that it appears reshoots/changes in approach are a new thing. Usually applied to the more fandom style of film where there is super scrutiny too.

I guess in terms of DCEU there is Suicide Squad as a precedent for reshoots/edits. So that aspect is worrying. But it seems that's also been covered upthread

13 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

What I meant was that they were clearly focussing heavily on the fantasy elements of Aquaman and WW in the latest trailer, something that was dialled right back in the original trailer. You do get the sense they are changing things on the hoof to fit the current public mood, rather than to tell the best story. 

I think those elements were probably always there, especially with Aquaman as they are setting up his film in Justice League. Again with Suicide Squad it shows the art of a trailer. I suspect with the first one they were still thinking of Batman as their lynchpin and BvS was the only film they had out (Supes doesn't really work for the trailers given his "death") they had to appeal to viewers of that film. The drawback being if you hated BvS you were left thinking Justice League was more of the same.

But if Wonder Woman had bombed she'd still be appearing like she was in the background.

No idea whether the story has been changed. You can add in scenes of dialogue and expand on certain scenes/characters without changing the story too much. I still guess the story is "Justice League fights the heralds of Darkseid/ Superman returns". If they had ditched the Darkseid story and the Justice League were now fighting Lex Luthor and Joker that would have been a fundamental story change.