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DCEU: The Wings of Liberty Have Lost Some Feathers


JGP

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2 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

I think it's far more likely he got fired from Batgirl because he couldn't rescue "Justice League" or made it even worse than "he had an affair". That's a bit puritanical and there's going to be a lot of unemployed people around the world if that's the case.

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

The Whedon script for Wonder Woman was incredibly atrocious. 

That would be a good reason and maybe on top of Justice League they read an early version of his Batgirl script? That and Age of Ultron. Because that was a mess too.

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:


I completely missed all this at the time, but apparently his wife accused him not just of adultery but years of emotional abuse, and of openly admitting (to her) he was basically faking his feminist outlook. Presumably WB have realised that since the Weinstein thing that's gonna come back at them.
 

If there were emails or other people backing it up - fair enough. Otherwise I'm aware of how divorced people can say harmful things about one another. And again, it shouldn't be equated with Weinstein or Spacey's behaviour. Unless there's a ton of shit to come out regarding Whedon that puts him on their level then they shouldn't be firing him for being an adulterer.

I get the impression James Gunn would never have got to make GOTG in the current climate. Some might feel he never should have. Especially given Whedon has endorsed him.

 

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21 minutes ago, red snow said:

Otherwise I'm aware of how divorced people can say harmful things about one another. And again, it shouldn't be equated with Weinstein or Spacey's behaviour. Unless there's a ton of shit to come out regarding Whedon that puts him on their level then they shouldn't be firing him for being an adulterer.


Sure. If it's just for being an adulterer, it'd be very much out of line.

The other stuff is very much his-word-vs-hers, but the nature of the movie and the overall situation makes it a bit unique. The one big plus in DC's arsenal is the goodwill they got from WW and the positivity people got from the women involved both on and off the screen, and if they let Whedon, freshly accused of emotionally abusing his wife and of admitting his feminism was pure fakery, make a Batgirl film and then he messes it up, they lose an awful lot of that. So it wouldn't surprise me if they are covering themselves on that.

I mean, maybe they did just realise that just because Whedon really really wants to make a Batgirl film doesn't mean he's the right person to do it.

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Hopefully they drop the Batgirl film all together. I'd rather they did a birds of Prey movie and have some characters that aren't just female versions of male heroes. Another reason Wonder Woman was such a good choice. But the Huntress, Black Canary, Catwoman (because no one really cares about catman) and Oracle (who i stll feel is the batter take on Barbara Gordon) in a team would be more interesting to watch. Batgirl is just a Batman spin-off, like Robin or Nightwing. Yes they have some good stories but they still owe their existence to Batman. I'd probably rather have Batwoman if they were insisting on a bat spin-off.

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On 11/21/2017 at 2:07 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I kind of like the Affleck Batman.  It sucks that he's getting so much crap when it isn't his performance that has been the problem.

Literally the only good part of BvS was when Batman went to save Clark's mother and just destroyed an entire room of bad guys.  The rest of the movie was mostly dog shit, but that scene was fucking awesome and really made me want a pure Batman movie with this version of the character minus all the "world is ending" bullshit.

Batman is basically the only DC character I'm remotely interested in at this point.

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40 minutes ago, red snow said:

Hopefully they drop the Batgirl film all together. I'd rather they did a birds of Prey movie and have some characters that aren't just female versions of male heroes. Another reason Wonder Woman was such a good choice. But the Huntress, Black Canary, Catwoman (because no one really cares about catman) and Oracle (who i stll feel is the batter take on Barbara Gordon) in a team would be more interesting to watch. Batgirl is just a Batman spin-off, like Robin or Nightwing. Yes they have some good stories but they still owe their existence to Batman. I'd probably rather have Batwoman if they were insisting on a bat spin-off.


I'm not especially beholden to a Batgirl film, but I don't see why they couldn't (or wouldn't) make both.

We should be getting Catwoman in Gotham City Sirens, although I think giving that film to David Ayer is a bonkers idea. I'd imagine that if a Batgirl film and a GSS film both happen and are successful, some kind of Birds of Prey can't help but be on the horizon.

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So certain scenes from trailers, especially the alleged Super Girl leg shot and the green lantern glint in Alfred's glasses obviously didn't make the sub 2hr cut. It's still arguable that the alleged Super Girl leg shot was actually Superman getting in touch with Alfred after he had chilled at the family Ranch for a bit and that it being cut is a nothingburger. But still I think on balance it probably was Super Girl's leg. So the question is whether the trailer is still a teaser for what's coming, that Super Girl will put in an appearance in the DCEU. Or is it nothing? It was certainly a misdirection, IMO.

Personally I would have quite liked the idea that Super Girl remained a sleeper right up to the events of JL, and that the re-animation of Superman did turn to shit for the entirety of the movie, and that it was Super Girl who finally decended she needed to come out and was who was needed to turn the tide of the fight with Steppenwolf.

Also, at the end of BvS obviously Clarke and Superman both end up "dead". So everyone who knows Clarke would have been, "interesting coincidence, Clarke and Superman both die on the same day." But now Superman is back alive and miraculously so is Clarke. I'm thinking people who know Clarke will be saying "This is no coincidence".

Personally to maintain the ruse I think Clarke needs to grow a moustache, and Superman needs to somehow be able to magically make the moustache disappear. I don't think glasses are going to cut it anymore.

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3 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

So certain scenes from trailers, especially the alleged Super Girl leg shot and the green lantern glint in Alfred's glasses obviously didn't make the sub 2hr cut. It's still arguable that the alleged Super Girl leg shot was actually Superman getting in touch with Alfred after he had chilled at the family Ranch for a bit and that it being cut is a nothingburger. But still I think on balance it probably was Super Girl's leg. So the question is whether the trailer is still a teaser for what's coming, that Super Girl will put in an appearance in the DCEU. Or is it nothing? It was certainly a misdirection, IMO.

Personally I would have quite liked the idea that Super Girl remained a sleeper right up to the events of JL, and that the re-animation of Superman did turn to shit for the entirety of the movie, and that it was Super Girl who finally decended she needed to come out and was who was needed to turn the tide of the fight with Steppenwolf.

Also, at the end of BvS obviously Clarke and Superman both end up "dead". So everyone who knows Clarke would have been, "interesting coincidence, Clarke and Superman both die on the same day." But now Superman is back alive and miraculously so is Clarke. I'm thinking people who know Clarke will be saying "This is no coincidence".

Personally to maintain the ruse I think Clarke needs to grow a moustache, and Superman needs to somehow be able to magically make the moustache disappear. I don't think glasses are going to cut it anymore.

I know the city was evacuated during the Doomsday fight, but there had to be some civilians buried in the rubble. In the comics when Superman died, when he came back, Clark was fished out of the rubble at the same time. The comics played it as though survivors were still being found in pockets of the wreckage, and Clark was one of them. It kind of worked there. I suppose it could work with any bit of storytelling here too. They even covered Clark's long hair (because Superman came back with a mulltet) with a one liner. Jimmy was like, "Hey Clark, love the hair." Clark says, "No barbers in the rubble." And then Jimmy thinks to himself, "Well, I guess everyone's wearing the 'Superman haircut' nowadays, Clark might as well too." I really feel like it's not hard to cover this stuff.

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5 hours ago, briantw said:

Literally the only good part of BvS was when Batman went to save Clark's mother and just destroyed an entire room of bad guys.  The rest of the movie was mostly dog shit, but that scene was fucking awesome and really made me want a pure Batman movie with this version of the character minus all the "world is ending" bullshit.

Batman is basically the only DC character I'm remotely interested in at this point.

I agree that was the best scene of the film, but by no means was the rest canine feces. I was intrigued by the world Batfleck occupied and think it's sad we likely won't ever see a dedicated Batfleck film. The Death in the Family arc from the comics with Batfleck, Harley, and Leto could've been a great film. :/

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22 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

I agree that was the best scene of the film, but by no means was the rest canine feces. I was intrigued by the world Batfleck occupied and think it's sad we likely won't ever see a dedicated Batfleck film. The Death in the Family arc from the comics with Batfleck, Harley, and Leto could've been a great film. :/

I think all that history they tried to shoehorn into the film is a great example of how DC is failing with its cinematic universe.  They told us all these awesome, interesting things happened with Batman, but they didn't show us any of them.  They skipped over decades of interesting Batman stories in favor of the most boring Batman/Superman story ever.

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On 11/21/2017 at 1:07 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I kind of like the Affleck Batman.  It sucks that he's getting so much crap when it isn't his performance that has been the problem.

I agree , I think Affleck is just fine as Batman.

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On 11/17/2017 at 6:33 AM, Calibandar said:

\

3) Wonder Woman ( Ok opening, poor denouement)

\

 

 

For me Wonder Woman was the best comic book movie I had seen since Dark Knight.

I didn't like the smack dab ending but about 98 percent of that film undercut my expectations. Especially liked the framing.

Someone is going to have to figure out an imaginative way to bring in the heavy artillery towards the end of comic book movies because my fun fatigue threshold has been exceeded for that , even in the best of comic book films. I thought that was what hurt Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

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18 minutes ago, boojam said:

 

For me Wonder Woman was the best comic book movie I had seen since Dark Knight.

I didn't like the smack dab ending but about 98 percent of that film undercut my expectations. Especially liked the framing.

Someone is going to have to figure out an imaginative way to bring in the heavy artillery towards the end of comic book movies because my fun fatigue threshold has been exceeded for that , even in the best of comic book films. I thought that was what hurt Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

Wow I wouldn’t even put it close to my top 5, but everyone is different 

i do agree about endings though, big bad boss fights have lost their allure, there has to be a better way to end movies. That’s one of the things I appreciated about Civil War

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8 hours ago, polishgenius said:


I'm not especially beholden to a Batgirl film, but I don't see why they couldn't (or wouldn't) make both.

We should be getting Catwoman in Gotham City Sirens, although I think giving that film to David Ayer is a bonkers idea. I'd imagine that if a Batgirl film and a GSS film both happen and are successful, some kind of Birds of Prey can't help but be on the horizon.

It's more a case of WB has all the DC characters to choose from and they already have a Batman, Nightwing and Batgirl film in development. They are very similar properties of street level non-powered crime fighters. Yes, they have different personalities and approaches but there's so many different characters that could shed light on different aspects of the DC universe.

It would have been like Marvel having Iron Man, War Machine and Iron heart as films in the first two phases at the expense of Dr Strange and Guardians of the Galaxy. I think Marvel had the right idea by letting the similar types of low budget character have TV shows. So I'd rather have a Legion or Swamp Thing (or any other hero that expands the DCEU) before a Batman spin-off. Otherwise the films are bottling themselves into a small corner as if it were Fox and they only have the Batman set of characters to play with.

39 minutes ago, boojam said:

 

For me Wonder Woman was the best comic book movie I had seen since Dark Knight.

I didn't like the smack dab ending but about 98 percent of that film undercut my expectations. Especially liked the framing.

Someone is going to have to figure out an imaginative way to bring in the heavy artillery towards the end of comic book movies because my fun fatigue threshold has been exceeded for that , even in the best of comic book films. I thought that was what hurt Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

It's not my favourite but it's one of the surpisingly few superhero films where I get a chill/feeling of heroism at a point in the film. The trench scene did that for me and that's really important when dealing with heroes.

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4 hours ago, red snow said:

 

It's not my favourite but it's one of the surpisingly few superhero films where I get a chill/feeling of heroism at a point in the film. The trench scene did that for me and that's really important when dealing with heroes.

I have not seen all Zack Snyder directed films , I was not a fan of 300 , in fact thought it awful. Snyder has been blamed for DC movie critical problems , I think he has a tin ear for big epic action films. 

It will a bit odd if Justice League really looses money, fans of this genre  still barf about Suicide Squad but it made 745 million world wide , WB must have cried all the way to the bank.

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9 hours ago, red snow said:

It's more a case of WB has all the DC characters to choose from and they already have a Batman, Nightwing and Batgirl film in development. They are very similar properties of street level non-powered crime fighters. Yes, they have different personalities and approaches but there's so many different characters that could shed light on different aspects of the DC universe.



While true, one of the differences there is that Iron Man before the films was a complete non-entity to the public at large and no-one knew who his support cast were, whereas the Bat-family and environs is the deepest and most established part of the DC-verse and there are loads of stories there to exploit.

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6 hours ago, boojam said:

I have not seen all Zack Snyder directed films , I was not a fan of 300 , in fact thought it awful. Snyder has been blamed for DC movie critical problems , I think he has a tin ear for big epic action films. 

It will a bit odd if Justice League really looses money, fans of this genre  still barf about Suicide Squad but it made 745 million world wide , WB must have cried all the way to the bank.

If Justice League is merely "ok" it's unfair that Suicide squad and BvS burned people enough to be skeptical about Justice League. But I do think it's those films being shit/disappointing that has led to people wising up to the DC films and if loads of reviewers say it's shit then they are probably correct.

Still, I personally think it's good that WB are having the message hammered home. Wonder Woman is the only film that has been widely liked and made money and it's probably because it doesn't have the joyless attitude that the other films have had.

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:



While true, one of the differences there is that Iron Man before the films was a complete non-entity to the public at large and no-one knew who his support cast were, whereas the Bat-family and environs is the deepest and most established part of the DC-verse and there are loads of stories there to exploit.

But it's still essentially the same type of material. Don't get me wrong; I think it's possible to make a great Batgirl or Nightwing film - i just think it's a shame if that's going to become the focus of the DC films. In fairness there's Aquaman, Shazam, Flash and Cyborg in development so it's not that they are just sticking to one family of comics. But if there's an element of playing it safe to do Batfilms - although i guess untill a spin-off succeeds no-one knows whether it's actually safe.

Speaking of Nightwing - I quite liked the rumour a few weeks ago that the guy who plays the Stranger things high-school bully in season 2 might be in with a chance of getting the role. He definitely looks the part and has the swagger - haven't seen him in enough to know whether he has the acting chops. I think the director says he also wants someone who can do a lot of the stunts/athleticism. AS others have said the great thing about nightwing is that he has that RDJR Tony Stark sense of joy about his job. It's not always about avenging his parents and wallowing in darkness. His turn as Batman was one I really enjoyed - especially his interaction with Damian.

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24 minutes ago, red snow said:

hmm so Whedon not as fired as first thought. And Nightwing director insists this won't be derivative in any way.



I haven't yet seen Lego Batman- should get on that- but did someone seriously have a go at the director for using an old-school corny Robin and not the modern versions?


Also: I really really really hope, even though it is 99% never gonna happen, that the Nightwing movie features a cameo from The Midnighter to spin off into his own series based on the Steve Orlando run.

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