What did the faceless man mean?

[Magog]

16 hours ago, dbunting said:

Well, it is the song of Ice and Fire, not the song of the Starks.

Dragons if I remember correctly struggled in the cold, so maybe they aren't used in battle much since it's always very cold when the WW are around. So maybe they are used to manufacture dragon glass?

I honestly don't know and that is what's I like.

Think about it.

All main protagonists are Stark children or "Stark" children (refferring to Jon, obviously), everyone else is a past, present, or future enemy (incl. Dany). Yes, all of them have their own agenda, and we have huge insights into the stories of Starks' adversaries, but essentially, in this dance, they are all antagonists, or they will become, similarly how some of them became protagonists (and they will remain protagonists for as long as they do not engage in conflict with Starks).

Dany, for example, will end up being the ultimate enemy and threat to the realm (remember that she plans to kill "men in their iron suits" and burn down "their stone houses" - what does she expect from people of Westeros, support for her wild hordes who will raid and rape everything they stumble upon - she cant change them, only partly control them. She has Tyrion to steer her, though). And, we have Starks' children who, aided with WWs, will fight her off . White Walkers on their own are as dangerous to the humans as dragons are when they are on their own. But, when under control, both are ultimate weapons. That is what I hope Bran will understand. This is the Song of Ice and Fire, a song that will bring Westeros to the verge of destruction. 

Dragonglass is manufactured by the children of the forrest without the aid of dragons - probably, it cannot be manufactured without COTF. Dragons could be used to smith valyrian blades, though, but Dany would need to find blacksmiths who know how to  do this (there are some), but she does not know that WWs are vulnerable to all these things, only men on the wall know, and people Sam will inform (note that Sam found out how to kill them on a writing which collected dust for centuries and was trapped in the wall, so far from Citadel), while official citadel would have hard time believing anything anyone tells them about "these magic things".   

That's it for me.

 

 

[dbunting]

3 hours ago, Magog said:

Think about it.

All main protagonists are Stark children or "Stark" children (refferring to Jon, obviously), everyone else is a past, present, or future enemy (incl. Dany). Yes, all of them have their own agenda, and we have huge insights into the stories of Starks' adversaries, but essentially, in this dance, they are all antagonists, or they will become, similarly how some of them became protagonists (and they will remain protagonists for as long as they do not engage in conflict with Starks).

Dany, for example, will end up being the ultimate enemy and threat to the realm (remember that she plans to kill "men in their iron suits" and burn down "their stone houses" - what does she expect from people of Westeros, support for her wild hordes who will raid and rape everything they stumble upon - she cant change them, only partly control them. She has Tyrion to steer her, though). And, we have Starks' children who, aided with WWs, will fight her off . White Walkers on their own are as dangerous to the humans as dragons are when they are on their own. But, when under control, both are ultimate weapons. That is what I hope Bran will understand. This is the Song of Ice and Fire, a song that will bring Westeros to the verge of destruction. 

Dragonglass is manufactured by the children of the forrest without the aid of dragons - probably, it cannot be manufactured without COTF. Dragons could be used to smith valyrian blades, though, but Dany would need to find blacksmiths who know how to  do this (there are some), but she does not know that WWs are vulnerable to all these things, only men on the wall know, and people Sam will inform (note that Sam found out how to kill them on a writing which collected dust for centuries and was trapped in the wall, so far from Citadel), while official citadel would have hard time believing anything anyone tells them about "these magic things".   

That's it for me.

 

 

Ok, you have some interesting thoughts and we will just agree to disagree.

BTW, Dragon glass is Obsidian, volcanic made. COF use it.

[Magog]

2 hours ago, dbunting said:

Ok, you have some interesting thoughts and we will just agree to disagree.

BTW, Dragon glass is Obsidian, volcanic made. COF use it.

 You as well.

I think it will probably go your way in the show, though, because it just seems more plausible. In the books, it could go my way, as we know that Martin never wanted orc-like characters in his work, but that could also simply mean that WWs have an origin story and a motive so they're orc-like characters which we can feel emphaty for. If that is the case, I am dissappointed.

It would be much more difficult to cheer against Dany in the series finale than against an ultimately evil NK (whatever his motives are). I always believed people could choose who to cheer for in the end and have valid arguments. If this becomes good-vs-evil clash, it would be a massive blow for me. 

You are right about obsidian, I made a mistake.

[Prince Jon]

I never understood the logic of the FM and Jaquen.  It was not ok to kill a child molester.  But it is ok to kill an actress just because someone has hired them.  No sense of morality or religion there... just commerce.  Plus Jaquen did not have any problem killing Arya's enemies back a few seasons ago.  

[Brad Stark]

11 minutes ago, Prince Jon said:

I never understood the logic of the FM and Jaquen.  It was not ok to kill a child molester.  But it is ok to kill an actress just because someone has hired them.  No sense of morality or religion there... just commerce.  Plus Jaquen did not have any problem killing Arya's enemies back a few seasons ago.  

The issue isn't with who Arya kills or how she decides.  The problem is she disobeyed to kill and save people based on her own judgement, and someone who does that can never be a faceless man.  

I don't think the killing has anything to do with commerce.  The faceless men have their own ethics.   The price is always something dear to the person hiring.   You don't see a king hiring them to kill a dozen people.   The price could be a lot more than was paid to kill the actress, but still not enough to matter to the king.

[Prince Jon]

3 minutes ago, Brad Stark said:

The faceless men have their own ethics.   The price is always something dear to the person hiring.  

Their ethics involve a price -- I go back to my first line not understanding their logic.

[robasp2]

2 hours ago, Prince Jon said:

I never understood the logic of the FM and Jaquen.  It was not ok to kill a child molester.  But it is ok to kill an actress just because someone has hired them.  No sense of morality or religion there... just commerce.  Plus Jaquen did not have any problem killing Arya's enemies back a few seasons ago.  

We do not know about the actress..

Just that she is boredof playing somebody else's play and she likes Arya.

Does that mean she is a good person? Maybe not! We do not know everything.

For all we know she could be a woman who lures little kids like Arya into some sort of trap! Who knows?

Remember how the waif tricked Arya with her story? Arya is easily fooled and not everyone need say the truth...

I believe Jaquen killed everyone just because Arya saved three lives, and well..wanted to save his own ass

[Brad Stark]

2 hours ago, Prince Jon said:

Their ethics involve a price -- I go back to my first line not understanding their logic.

The price is important only because it has value to the person hiring, it has no value to the faceless men.  

They do not live lifestyles of lavish luxury, yet they've been accumulating large sums of money for hundreds of years.  Somewhere  (probably the iron bank) there is a tremendous amount of money, each contract adds a small amount to it, and they have no plans to spend it, it doesn't benefit them.

[TickTak7]

The entire Faceless Men arc has lacked any sort of logic whatsoever. 

Its basically a hit-man institution with some supernatural abilities - an-assassin-for-hire firm, basically. 

 

[GoT Addicted]

On 5/31/2016 at 7:21 AM, Magog said:

Precisely, because some of her gifts are very rare and very useful for an assassin. For example:

Also, in response to

I always believed that While Walkers are natural allies of the Many-Faced-God. Both are death-oriented. FM can take the faces of the dead, while WWs, or at least the NK, can make them rise again. In line with that and considering the amount of time the show and the books devoted to the FM, and presuming that Stark blood for some reason matters to the WWs, I think it could be the reason why Arya was allowed to recieve training.

Also, I think that "The girl had many gits" was not referring to Arya (which makes this discussion irrelevant), but to the waif, because the kindly man knows that actually Arya will kill her, not the other way around. But he accepts this, because waif wants to kill Arya, and it the wrong reason to kill someone, they are servants of the Many-Faced-God. Waif never understood why Arya is important, and never assumed she could be important, and this is a lesson to her. She'll die to learn it, though. 

It is just my opinion.

I view the FM and the WW as opposites because the WW steal from the many-faced-god when they raise the dead. 

I do believe the FM have some secret agenda but am not sure what it is. A common connection between the 2 parties may be the starks.

[Lady Stouthearted]

Arya is a warrior. 

[GeorgeIAF]

I don't think Jaqen was telling the Waif to kill her, we'll see in the next episode.

[Neds Secret]

On 31 May 2016 at 0:08 AM, Magog said:

Ok. Undead don't stand a chance, but WWs are intelligent and would probably avoid exposing their army to three dragons, unless as a bait to kill one or two of them, or to turn them into an White/Ice Dragon? That would be a power shift.

So, what is fire vs ice to you? How do you see it going down? WW as a an intelligent and magical version of orcs and Dany as the savior? 

Remember, this is a story about the Starks children. The whole thing is about them.

Which lends credence to Dany possibly being Lyannas daughter.

[The Dames do Moan]

On June 1, 2016 at 3:34 AM, Magog said:

Think about it.

All main protagonists are Stark children or "Stark" children (refferring to Jon, obviously), everyone else is a past, present, or future enemy (incl. Dany). Yes, all of them have their own agenda, and we have huge insights into the stories of Starks' adversaries, but essentially, in this dance, they are all antagonists, or they will become, similarly how some of them became protagonists (and they will remain protagonists for as long as they do not engage in conflict with Starks).

Dany, for example, will end up being the ultimate enemy and threat to the realm (remember that she plans to kill "men in their iron suits" and burn down "their stone houses" - what does she expect from people of Westeros, support for her wild hordes who will raid and rape everything they stumble upon - she cant change them, only partly control them. She has Tyrion to steer her, though). And, we have Starks' children who, aided with WWs, will fight her off . White Walkers on their own are as dangerous to the humans as dragons are when they are on their own. But, when under control, both are ultimate weapons. That is what I hope Bran will understand. This is the Song of Ice and Fire, a song that will bring Westeros to the verge of destruction. 

Dragonglass is manufactured by the children of the forrest without the aid of dragons - probably, it cannot be manufactured without COTF. Dragons could be used to smith valyrian blades, though, but Dany would need to find blacksmiths who know how to  do this (there are some), but she does not know that WWs are vulnerable to all these things, only men on the wall know, and people Sam will inform (note that Sam found out how to kill them on a writing which collected dust for centuries and was trapped in the wall, so far from Citadel), while official citadel would have hard time believing anything anyone tells them about "these magic things".   

That's it for me.

 

 

There are 2 or 3 blacksmiths in the world who know how to "rework" or "reforge" Valyrian steel. So they can melt down Ice and remake it. The actual creating of new Valyrian steel is lost to history though and that's why there is such a scarcity. Likely it is some sort of dragonfire + blood sacrifices though to create it, that's my guess anyway. But that was lost when 39 of the 40 dragon riding families fell in the doom.

Once the doom hit Valyria the remaining blades people had were likely sold off by the desolate to the rich and powerful families for $. Remember, they state that Longclaw and Heartsbane were each said to be in the family for about 500 years. And the current version of ICE was in the family for over 400 years. Around the time of the Doom, when traders who had them likely came to Westeros fleeing the Doom.

I don't think it will be as simple as "Bran needs to control the WW to defeat Dany and the Dragons" I agree Dany's "fire" invasion and the rebirth of Azor Ahai, the prince that was promised, won't as much be a saviour but more another faction of destruction. 

Both the WW, Ice, and The Prince that was promised, fire, have similar prophecies but from very different angles. (1) PtwP will bring a summer that never ends, WW probably will bring winter and the Ling Night. Both are bad and would destroy the world. (2) WW obviously bring back the dead, ten them into wights to fight for them. Supposedly under PtwP/AA, "all those that die fighting for him will be reborn". (3) The WW were the great weapon, created by a sacrifice of man, and obsidian to the heart. The great weapon Lightbringer was forged by AA by a sword through his wife's heart. (4) the Red priests want to purify Westeros by the thousands. Presumably the WW would kill by the thousands when they get past the wall.

And so on and so forth. neither side can "win". There must be a balance and the WW and the dragons must both die.

[The Dames do Moan]

On June 1, 2016 at 2:42 PM, TickTak7 said:

 

Its basically a hit-man institution with some supernatural abilities - an-assassin-for-hire firm, basically. 

 

So it's the same as in the books? Unless you find it silly in the books in which case it's not D&D. 

Im not saying u can't complain about Arya's plot line or the whole Braavos plot line and D&D inventions and bad writing (I wouldn't agree but it's a matter of opinion). But the murder for hire assassin group is the same as the books. So it's not the show writing.

[josekk]

Maybe he knows she's a warg?

[John Suburbs]

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 11:04 AM, Prince Jon said:

I never understood the logic of the FM and Jaquen.  It was not ok to kill a child molester.  But it is ok to kill an actress just because someone has hired them.  No sense of morality or religion there... just commerce.  Plus Jaquen did not have any problem killing Arya's enemies back a few seasons ago.  

 

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 2:42 PM, TickTak7 said:

The entire Faceless Men arc has lacked any sort of logic whatsoever. 

Its basically a hit-man institution with some supernatural abilities - an-assassin-for-hire firm, basically. 

 

I'm sensing a double or even triple-cross with the FM arc. The hit on the actress was a test for Arya -- to see if she would kill an innocent just because she was ordered to. She didn't, and therefore passed the test.

The waif is being tested to see if she would kill a fellow acolyte out of spite. If she does, this will prove she is not "no one" and is not suitable as an FM.

I expect Arya and the waif to start brawling, and when the waif is just about to kill Arya, JH will step in and kill the waif.

[TickTak7]

On 6/4/2016 at 0:07 PM, John Suburbs said:

 

I'm sensing a double or even triple-cross with the FM arc. The hit on the actress was a test for Arya -- to see if she would kill an innocent just because she was ordered to. She didn't, and therefore passed the test.

The waif is being tested to see if she would kill a fellow acolyte out of spite. If she does, this will prove she is not "no one" and is not suitable as an FM.

I expect Arya and the waif to start brawling, and when the waif is just about to kill Arya, JH will step in and kill the waif.

Interesting. 

I still fail to see how this helps this particular story line at all - unless, somehow, Arya becomes the leader of the FM or gains access to their faces, this all seems rather pointless

[Pies are coming]

Arya knows how to read and write, was taught maths and history. That's more than 99% of the population of Planetos knows.