Ice The Sword

Sam Stealing Heartsbane

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There is more to this than just sticking it to his ass of a dad. Heartsbane is one of the few Valyrian steal swords in Westeros and it happens to be one of the very few things that can kill a WW. I think Sam stole this sword knowing that his father would follow him up North (where I think he is going). After hearing how his brother laughed when a WW was brought up and said they are not real, it could be time to open the eyes of the rest of Westeros to the real trouble coming and who better to find out than the best general in the land. Sam knows his dads reputation and if he can convince him the rest will follow (hopefully).

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He will go to Oldtown, so South, unless he somehow deceives Randyll with thinking he went North.

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I expect book Sam will stay in school.  But on TV, Sam can't just hang out on the quad after telling everybody where he was headed.  Not unless D & D can live with an implausible story line. 

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Yeah I wasn't happy with this at all. So now Sam is a fat cowardly thief? I can't see him heading south since his dad knows that's where he was heading. He knows how important valyrian steel is so my thought is he heads back north? I will reserve judgment on this until I see how the show plays it out I guess. 

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He wouldn't steal the sword unless he's going to use it (Chekhov said so) I don't believe D&D would have him go Rambo and live off the land so my guess is that he heads to Oldtown, and his father isn't heard from again. He served his purpose of allowing Sam to become armed. 

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I think it would be pretty stupid if Randyll tarly brings a whole army to get his sword back. Sam still going to oldtown I beleive and the reason he took the sword was to study it at the citadel.

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Seeing as we are in a "surprise I'm not dead" portion of the story I like to think this is where Gendry finally shows up. 

In the books he was apprentice to the guy who reforged Ice since he was "very young". In the TV show they bring in a random to do this. But the Lanisters had tortured Gendry's old master to find out where he fled to. 

Gendry (in s3x06 i think) has a seemingly throwaway conversation with a member of the brotherhood about Bodkin Arrowheads that can pierce plate at 200 yards. And how he would only need decent steel to forge them. 

We have seen that Walkers' Armour can hold off Dragon Glass but that if a chink can be found a ranged weapon can penetrate and kill them. The children also made arrows from dragon glass which would presumably be fairly useless unless a head shot was taken. 

So we know that there isn't some "there can be only one!" Highlander sword thing on the go here.  And we have seen longclaw slice straight through Walker armour. 

We also know that Valyrian steel can be made into small items (eg maester chain links). 

So Gendry turning up and knocking a couple hundred arrow tips out of Heartsbane could be plausible and would do a lot more for the war effort than turning the greatsword into a longsword and a dagger or some such. 

I know that it was an FU to the Starks, but isnt Tyrion the only one who figures out where the steel for Jamie & Joffery's swords came from? Why bother introducing the fact the swords can be reworked if it is never going to be revisited? 

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He stole it so that when he returns North it can come in handy. They need all the Valyrian steel swords they can get.

BTW the sword is beautiful

https://imgur.com/a/YgJD8

The attention to detail and fine ornamental work are always things to behold from GOT's props department. Shame the camera rarely picks up on that.

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What bothers me a little is that GRRM sent Sam to Oldtown for a reason, i.e. gaining useful knowledge to defeat the White Walkers. If he really travels north now (which is IMO the only sensible thing he can do after stealing the family sword) then his real purpose would go lost. His arc is about never being a fighter but being helpful in other ways. Now he will fight the WW with a sword (if he keeps it for himself; if not his greatest character achievement will be having stolen a sword) rather than with his brain. It's a shame.

If he travels to Oldtown he will need to find a place for Gilly and the baby and will probably have no protection against his father (Will the Citadel defend a thief?). Luring his father north might be a good idea but I doubt Randyll Tarly will take his whole army with him to get his sword back. Then he'd have to travel back to get his army... (which might be no problem on the show, considering how fast they all travel)

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I would like to think that Sam continues to the Citadel with the sword, where he'll study it's properties and get protection from the Maesters.  Isn't the Citadel kinda like the sept of Baelor?  History and tradition make it disrespectful to attack.  Instead, Randyl will get educated on the WW and Sam's bravery and decide to help the cause.  Besides, we don't know if it's valyrian steel that kills WW or the person wielding the sword.  There is some important research to be done.

However, I feel that in the show, it makes sense for Sam to travel north with the sword.  Gilly will not have a place at the citadel, so he needs to take her back to someplace.  Unless he somehow gets protection from the Tyrells?  It is very possible that mama Tyrell will call her bannermen into action soon, including house Tarly.  

 

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I don't see Randyl going after the sword, I see him sending Dickon to the citadel to get it. Once Dickon is there he and Sam will talk (I always got the impression that the brothers were friendly) especially if their father isn't around and Dickon may be persuaded by what he hears. Maybe not enough to join the black... but maybe to send some people looking beyond the wall.

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1 hour ago, Princess of Dragonflies said:

I don't see Randyl going after the sword, I see him sending Dickon to the citadel to get it. Once Dickon is there he and Sam will talk (I always got the impression that the brothers were friendly) especially if their father isn't around and Dickon may be persuaded by what he hears. Maybe not enough to join the black... but maybe to send some people looking beyond the wall.

I would like to think that Sam continues to the Citadel with the sword, where he'll study it's properties and get protection from the Maesters.  Isn't the Citadel kinda like the sept of Baelor?  History and tradition make it disrespectful to attack.  Instead, Randyl will send Dickon (since Sam isn't much of a threat) and he will get educated on the WW and Sam's bravery and decide to help the cause, just as Princess says.  

Besides, we don't know if it's valyrian steel that kills WW or the person wielding the sword.  There is some important research to be done.

However, Gilly will not have a place at the citadel, so he needs to take her someplace safe.  I think think he will be intercepted  no matter which direction he chooses.  Maybe he somehow gets protection from the Tyrells?  Or the Brotherhood without Banners?!?

It is very possible that grandmama Tyrell will call her bannermen into action soon, including house Tarly.  One thing for sure is that Randyll will not go into battle without Heartsbane.

 

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I can't imagine how (realistically speaking) Sam hopes to get away with it. How is he, a wildling girl and a newborn supposed to flee all the way to safety before Randyll catches up to them? I can't imagine Randyll caring about any rules or whatnot that the Citadel has. And unless Sam intends to disobey Jon's orders, he has to go to the Citadel.

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So to review, although slightly off topic, in terms of Valyrian swords

Ice was made into 2 swords:
Oathbreaker, held by Brienne
Widow's Wail given to Joffrey, then Tommen

Heartsbane with Sam

Longclaw with Jon 

LadyForlorn - belongs to House Corbray

So 3 out of the 5 possible known swords are in the hands of heroes, one is with Tommen, and one is unknown.

[There are others: Blackfyre, Brightroar, and Dark Sister, all believed to be lost]
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Valyrian_steel

 

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On 31.05.2016 at 4:07 PM, Shane snow said:

I think it would be pretty stupid if Randyll tarly brings a whole army to get his sword back. Sam still going to oldtown I beleive and the reason he took the sword was to study it at the citadel.

Sam doesn't need Heartsbane to become maester. And valyrian steel is so valuable that it would be plausible for randyll to go out with army to get it back.

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11 hours ago, Darksky said:

He stole it so that when he returns North it can come in handy. They need all the Valyrian steel swords they can get.

BTW the sword is beautiful

https://imgur.com/a/YgJD8

The attention to detail and fine ornamental work are always things to behold from GOT's props department. Shame the camera rarely picks up on that.

Valyrian steel swords looks amazing.

 

Sam has to go to the Citadel as we know from the shooting locations. They just wouldn't waist their time to get him to the south and steal sword. Has to go to Citadel but he won't become Maester but he'll study it and help with White Walkers. It needs a payoff and somehow he'll find some relevant information for the war against white walkers.

 

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Whatever use Sam makes of Heartsbane, it's gotta be important, because when you think about it, the whole (very boring) Sam arc in this episode was just to get the sword. Especially when you know this has not happened in the books (yet?).

None of the arguments you make stating that Sam cannot go to the Citadel are compelling. Randall may not go after him, Sam may escape, Sam may get protection at the Citadel, Gilly might stay at the Citadel or elsewhere... Sam might also go back North but that's even more nonsense: why would he go all the way south, to then turn back at once without even trying to achieve his original goal?

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Sam will go to the Citadel, and tell them that Dragonglass & Valyrian steel can kill a WW.

 

This will either Surprise the Maesters, OR shock them (that Sam knows).  I suspect that Grand Maester of the citadel will already know this, and will likely know some history that no one else does.   This will in turn give credit to Sams story that he killed a WW, and his father / brother will let him keep the sword.

 

Randyll is all about honour, hunting and fighting strength.  If he finds out that his son actually did kill a WW, i think he will suddenly have a new respect for Sam.  At the dinner table when Gilly said he had killed one, they laughed because A they dont even believe in WW's, and B dont think Sam could even kill a deer, (remember when he asked if their kill of the day was what they were eating... shows he knows nothing about hunting).

 

 

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I have for some time had a pet speculative theory that Sam's important contribution will be to re learn the method for making Valyrian steel. It seems that the main ingredient (dragon fire) has reappeared in the world and Sam is headed to the one place where knowledge of how to make it may still be preserved. In the books, he encounters a person who is especially likely to know that secret if it still exists. 

It is possible that heartsbane will assist him in learning how to make Valyrian steel. I

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