Football - Aftermath of the Euros

[Lucailduca]

Horse of Kent, I agree with you. Perfect analysis of Juventus "gamble"

27 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

Although the quality in Italy isn't what it was 15 years ago, there is still a good number of obstinate defences.

Alas it's true, but It's still harder to score in Italy than it is in Spain or Germany, hands down. And Higuain passed the test, other players has not so far.

44 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

he is most remembered for his time at Real Madrid, where he was not the main man

Yes, I don't know why but he is underrated! Maybe people don't remember Mourinho saying, when Higuain was injuried: "if I want to go hunting, I need a hound (Higuain), a cat (Benzema) not so much..." It's true he didn't win with Argentina but he always contributed to get to the finals, World cup and Copa America alike. C. Ronaldo played way way way worse than him in Euro, but "won" it...

3 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Even if you discount Suarez as not being a proper number 9, Higuain is not better than Lewandowski. Or Aguero. Or, probably, Harry Kane.

He's better than Benteke, right now, but Benteke can reach his level and the price is obviously going to be a lot less.

I would only consider Suarez above him: fantastic player! The others you mentioned can stay where they are. According to rumors, the most likely alternatives to Higuain were Cavani or Icardi, but they both are not as complete as he is, so fine by me.

[Mark Antony]

1 hour ago, Horse of Kent said:

 The other issue is that he seldom does well under pressure - not just with Argentina, but also with Napoli where he missed a crucial penalty to qualify them for last season's Champions League and a few months back got a stupid red card when the title was slipping out of their grasp that basically confirmed Juventus' win.

I think this is a big factor as to why he isn't rated that highly by some. He's known as a choke artist.

Higuain and Aguero are pretty even imo. Neither are impressive internationally. I might give the edge to Higuain just cause he can stay healthy. Both are top 5 imo. I don't think Kane is well rounded enough to be considered on that level yet, but I don't even rate Kane as the best English striker. 

As for the transfer I kinda hate it. Not as lame as Hummels to Bayern but still pretty fucking lame. Will be interesting to see who Napoli replaces him with. 

[Mexal]

That Juventus team is really good and has immense depth (they're getting old though). They're going fro the CL and I appreciate and am jealous of the ambition.

[Consigliere]

Higuain is a great signing for Juve. The price is steep...but so what? The transfer market is bonkers and these mega fees are becoming more and more common. I doubt Juve cares about resale value, only that Higuain can take them to the next level. He certainly has the quailty to do so and if the Pogba transfer goes through, Juve will recoup that money and then some.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

17 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Bill Barnwell wrote an interesting piece about strikers declining after age 29 article .  It was about Vardy but applies to Higuain.  I will grant you that Higuain is more of a target man and relies less on pace, and he plays in a slower league, so he won't decline as sharply as others.  But the odds are that his goals and playing time will decrease over the next 3-4 years, not persist at his prior level for 3-4 years and then decline.  He might be an outlier who defies aging but that cannot be predicted today with any confidence.  Paying top dollar for Higuain at this age just doesn't make sense, especially since Juve is not desperate and right now has more spending power and pull than any other team in Serie A.  They have other options. There aren't many proven top class strikers available but they could have bought Morata back for a lot less, and still had money to replace Pogba.  Putting all their eggs in an aging basket looks foolhardy.

 

On an unrelated note, I'm shocked by the height/weight reported in that article for some of the strikers.  Yakubu at 6'0 and 182lbs?  He looked a lot heavier than that.  Same for Rickie Lambert at 6'2 and 169lbs.  Neither of them were fat or overweight, but they looked heavier built than those height/weights would suggest.

It's more a physical with Higuain imo. If he stays healthy I can see him producing at very good level. Check Ibrahimovic. He turns 35 in october, and he was still arguably the biggest price on the striker market. He is not a pacey/mobile striker by any means either, but he is gifted with an incredible technical skills and very good footballing instincts. Granted Higuain is no Ibrahimovic, and Zlatan played in a one team league, but I think 3 years should be left in the tank with Higuain (at least). And the problem is really the market. There are atm not many good strikers in the game. And fewer are available. So who would be better target for Juventus, they can realistically hope to sign? Didn't Arsenal offer offer 60m for Higuain, too? Anyway, Juve have set their eyes on a bigger prize than another scudetto. Their aim seems to be another CL title and they needed to upgrade their squad for this, and it's not like they have abundance of first rate forwards on their team. So that signing makes sense for them. And the price, well I said it above. They have not been sensible/reasonable in a long time.

As far as strikers go, Germany's Mario Gomez is on the market, he will cost significantly less than Higuain, but he is also significantly worse than Higuain. 

The next area of concern for Juve should be their defense. Their defense is good, but getting rather old. That means two things. First the window for that squad to win the CL is slowly but surely closing, second they will need to inject some young blood into their defense.

[Jeor]

At 75 million pounds it's understandable Arsenal didn't bag Higuain at that price, so I'm not angry at Wenger for missing out on him. But we do need someone else, even a Lacazette would do.

Mertesacker is out for "a few months" too. With Koscielny underdone because of Euros, that leaves Chambers and Gabriel for the first matchday. Even when Koscielny comes back, with the volume of matches etc I'd be a bit worried with Chambers and Holding as our third and fourth choice (21 and 20 years old) at an important position like CB. An interesting move for Arsenal to move the injury crisis to even before the season starts...

[Calibandar]

18 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Higuain is a great signing for Juve. The price is steep...but so what? The transfer market is bonkers and these mega fees are becoming more and more common. I doubt Juve cares about resale value, only that Higuain can take them to the next level. He certainly has the quailty to do so and if the Pogba transfer goes through, Juve will recoup that money and then some.

I have to think the fact that Juve is buying Higuain for 90 million Euro and Napoli buying Milik from Ajax as a replacement are all signs that the Pogba deal is really happening. An announcement please!

[Iskaral Pust]

That's hard on Mertesacker but, like Hyppia and Carragher, his game doesn't rely on pace and he should return without any major hangover. 

Even though Kos will have only a partial preseason, I fully expect him to line up with Gabriel against Liverpool.  He'll have three weeks of training by 8/14 and doesn't seem like a player who gets too rusty.  Arsenal need to sign some cover for CB though.  They've been a bit fortunate in recent years not to have more injuries at that position.

 

[Jeor]

Yes, I suppose Koscielny might still make the Liverpool game.

We definitely need another CB. I like the look of Holding or Chambers as up and coming prospects, but they're more like fourth CBs at this stage. Chambers might be trusted with a few more games but the third Arsenal CB will be expected to shoulder a lot of responsibility considering the Champions League fixtures, EPL and cup calendars, and the inevitable injury problems.

With Mertesacker out for a while, and Koscielny having a history of Achilles issues, we need another experienced hand in there. An established superstar in the 26-28 age range would be fantastic, especially to take on more responsibility as Koscielny grows older. I'm not convinced Gabriel will eventually become our leading CB. He's more a solid 2nd. Chambers or Holding are good prospects who may eventually become that, but they've got a number of years yet before we'll know. Knowing Wenger, we won't be getting an established superstar. But at least a decent veteran would be needed as cover in the medium term.

[MercenaryChef]

Won't someone please buy sissoko!!??

[Nas!]

41 minutes ago, MercurialCannibal said:

Won't someone please buy sissoko!!??

Can he play as a striker? I know a club who are willing to spend any amount of money on a striker who is willing to play for them. 

[polishgenius]

On 26/07/2016 at 4:02 PM, Consigliere said:

Higuain is a great signing for Juve. The price is steep...but so what? The transfer market is bonkers and these mega fees are becoming more and more common. I doubt Juve cares about resale value, only that Higuain can take them to the next level. He certainly has the quailty to do so and if the Pogba transfer goes through, Juve will recoup that money and then some.

 

 

Well, the fact that their closest domestic rivals have immediately gone and spent the money on a perfectly decent, if slightly risky, replacement and still have over 50mil Euros left over to strengthen with could be an issue. Especially since he is known as a choke-artist so they may well have traded a harder time in the league for a player who doesn't actually help them in the crunch CL games.

If he'd been as central to Napoli as Bale or Suarez were to their teams, it might be different, but he's not. Napoli should come out of this with far more of a boost than Juve.

[Iskaral Pust]

Juve are losing Pogba and Morata, but that defense and midfield still looks like it will run the league. 

[Mark Antony]

I don't see how losing Morata matters much when they have Dybala and Higuain. 

[Mexal]

4 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

That's hard on Mertesacker but, like Hyppia and Carragher, his game doesn't rely on pace and he should return without any major hangover. 

Even though Kos will have only a partial preseason, I fully expect him to line up with Gabriel against Liverpool.  He'll have three weeks of training by 8/14 and doesn't seem like a player who gets too rusty.  Arsenal need to sign some cover for CB though.  They've been a bit fortunate in recent years not to have more injuries at that position.

Is this true? I thought he wouldn't be back until the beginning of August which leaves 2 weeks. And from what has happened in the past with players in the finals of major summer tournaments, they have missed the first or second game because Wenger believes in giving them a full 4 weeks of vacation. 

I think you might end up seeing Gabriel/Chambers in the first match and even then, Gabriel isn't with Arsenal in the US because he's sick or injured. Plus, we'll likely have no Ozil, Giroud, Ramsey and Sanchez may or may not be ready given his ankle injury. This is going to get ugly.

As for fortunate, not entirely sure about that. Part of the reason we failed to compete in 2014 was because of the lack of cover in the beginning part of the season when we had a revolving door of Debuchy, Monreal and Chambers playing CB next to Mertesacker because Koscielny was injured. We dropped a lot of points due to some shoddy defense though I'd put just as much blame on our CMs for doing a terrible job being in position.

[Raja]

Can't wait for the Monreal - Holding CB partnership that we're bound to see next season. Trying desperately to get the 14th off from work. 

[Mexal]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Can't wait for the Monreal - Holding CB partnership that we're bound to see next season. Trying desperately to get the 14th off from work. 

Word from Coquelin is he's now training at CB. We're, once again, going to jerry-rig this shit instead of actually buying a legitimate, experienced CB.

[Iskaral Pust]

40 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Word from Coquelin is he's now training at CB. We're, once again, going to jerry-rig this shit instead of actually buying a legitimate, experienced CB.

Better than playing Lucas at CB like we did.  Considering we had at least two and often three of Skrtel, Lovren and Sakho unavailable last season, and then Kolo would get injured in each game he played, Arsenal were lucky that considering their thin back-up they've not had as many or as lengthy injuries to their top 3 CBs as other teams.  United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton and City have had worse luck there lately, with only Spurs hardly suffering at all. 

[MisterOJ]

11 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Better than playing Lucas at CB like we did.  Considering we had at least two and often three of Skrtel, Lovren and Sakho unavailable last season, and then Kolo would get injured in each game he played, Arsenal were lucky that considering their thin back-up they've not had as many or as lengthy injuries to their top 3 CBs as other teams.  United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton and City have had worse luck there lately, with only Spurs hardly suffering at all. 

You know, the games I saw him there, I thought Lucas did a pretty decent job at CB.

[Mexal]

51 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Better than playing Lucas at CB like we did.  Considering we had at least two and often three of Skrtel, Lovren and Sakho unavailable last season, and then Kolo would get injured in each game he played, Arsenal were lucky that considering their thin back-up they've not had as many or as lengthy injuries to their top 3 CBs as other teams.  United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton and City have had worse luck there lately, with only Spurs hardly suffering at all. 

Maybe, but that doesn't lessen the effect it can have on the team and defense. We're still stupid to go into this season trying to fit players who've never played CB at CB because we're too cheap to buy the depth/upgrades we need even when we have the most cash available to spend.