Tianzi Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 At one point we have Littlefinger saying to Sansa something about Westeros enduring the times of five kings and then having to get ready for the times of three queens. Is he: predicting a clash between the three already existing queens: Cersei, Marg and Daenerys? planning to make Sansa a queen, making it: Sansa, Marg, Cersei? taking into account someone with the 'queen' as a nickname, for example the Queen of Thorns? Given the person who is giving this prediction, I think it's probably the second option. Littlefinger doesn't seem invested in Dany's case, though he probably knows about her accomplishments, but he seems to plan mainly on Westerosi plane. So, is he grooming Sansa as the Queen of The North or is he eyeing the IT for her? (and likely for himself as her husband) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MostlyMoody Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I don't think LF thinks that highly of Cersei's ability. I'd say its something more like Myrcella, Margaery, Sansa. It's a bit of a long shot at the moment but it could very well pan out this way, seeing how things are going. LF will try to set Sansa up as queen. We already have Dornish setting up Myrcella and Margaery is obvious. Don't ask me about how we will get there, I am not a genius like George. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 He is most likely anticipating Daenerys's imminent arrival, or the possibility of Myrcella being "queened" by the Dornish. I don't think he has any immediate plans for Sansa, certainly none that would involve her having power in her own right. I think he anticipates Cersei being around for a little while, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 I don't really remember whether he utters this words before, during, or after Arianne's so brilliant plan to crown Myrcella, but I don't think he is taking her into account - 'the Dornish', ie. Doran would never do that, and it would be too much if he had a part in Arianne's scheme. He sooner should expect the Dornish to support a Targaryen - so it's either Dany or Myrcella, not both of them. He might not think highly of Cersei, but she is the queen and he is actually surprised how fast she is losing it. I'd say she is the most sure thing on his list. Actually, Arianne herself could be one of those queens when fAegon arrives, but I'm not sure how much LF knows about him and well, it would be about the king, not the queen here. Also, there might be a very small chance he could anticipate Asha as the queen of the Ironborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I feel like the three queens will be Cersei, Dany, and Arianne. Cersei is like to win her trial and regain some control. Dany is coming. Arianne will likely marry Young Griff and he will claim the Iron Throne. (im almost positive he will sit it. For a time...) The conflict will be Arianne/Aegon vs Cersei after her trail. Then it will be Dany vs Arianne/Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Technically, there are three queens in Westeros: Cersei, Margaery and Selyse. Even if LF heard the rumors about Dany, he's got to know she's missing or dead in the Dothraki Sea, surrounded by her enemies, or simply far enough to be a factor. I guess it's possible that he's talking hypothetically about Sansa, but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seams Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 It's pretty clear that Cersei is one of the three he is referring to: "You would not believe half of what is happening in King's Landing, sweetling. Cersei stumbles from one idiocy to the next, helped along by her council of the deaf, the dim, and the blind. I always anticipated that she would beggar the realm and destroy herself, but I never expected she would do it quite so fast. It is quite vexing. I had hoped to have four or five quiet years to plant some seeds and allow some fruits to ripen, but now . . . it is a good thing that I thrive on chaos. What little peace and order the five kings left us will not long survive the three queens, I fear." "Three queens?" She did not understand. Nor did Petyr choose to explain. Instead, he smiled and said, "I have brought my sweet girl back a gift." (AFfC, Alayne II) Since he attributes to Cersei's actions the acceleration of the timetable, the other two queens must be people in contact (or in conflict) with Cersei. I would definitely put Margaery in that category. Cersei is also in conflict with Sansa and with the Queen of Thorns. Petyr did show some respect for the Queen of Thorns in another conversation, and I don't think he would tell Sansa to her face that he thinks she will put an end to peace and order. Cersei is not in conflict with Myrcella, and I think Myrcella is such a non-entity that it wouldn't be an interesting story development to make her one of three queens creating chaos. It would be like asking Tommen to put his kittens aside and plan an invasion. It seems out of character. Poor Queen Selyse is not a factor in anyone's calculations. If Arianne made a quick marriage with fAegon, she would be a Queen, but he is still holding out for Dany, isn't he? Wasn't the invasion of Westeros his plan for impressing her? I don't think the fAegon storyline will merge that quickly with Arianne's arc. I may be wrong, but I think he is already surrounded by too many strong people who are invested in him. It almost seems like there would be too much power concentrated in one POV if Arianne became his partner so quickly. I bet Littlefinger is anticipating the arrival of Dany. So my guess for the three queens would be Cersei, Margaery and Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsaw Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Technically, Cersei doesn't count as queen anymore, so I would say the three queens are Margery (official Queen of the Seven Kindoms), Sansa (Queen in the North) and Daenerys (Queen of a bunch of places in Essos and of Westeros by birthright). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 6 minutes ago, Warsaw said: Technically, Cersei doesn't count as queen anymore, so I would say the three queens are Margery (official Queen of the Seven Kindoms), Sansa (Queen in the North) and Daenerys (Queen of a bunch of places in Essos and of Westeros by birthright). Cersei is still a dowager queen. Sansa is not Queen in the North. She doesn't have the alliegance of the Northerners. Thus, the three he's referring to are Cersei, Margaery and Daenerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsaw Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Baelish makes it very clear in the quote that Cersei's losing power, and will soon be out of the picture. That's her whole problem, actually, that she doesn't really matter anymore; everyone's reminding her constantly that she's just the mother of the King, not THE Queen. Besides, Baelish's ultimate plan is to bring Sansa back to retake the North with the Vale army (by marrying her to the Heir). Or at least that's what he tells her. So no, she's not Queen in the North... yet. Just to be clear, I don't necessarily believe that this is what's going to happen, but I think that's what he meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nissa Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Since it's coming from LF's perspective I would guess that he is thinking Margery, Daenerys and Sansa. I believe he does know about Daenerys but I'm unsure that he knows about the "Dornish" plan to crown Marcella. From my understanding it was not widely known or at least not known to LF. I could be wrong however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixnik Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I think he is talking about Marg ,her grandmother Queen of Thorns and Cersei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Could it be Dany... Sure... But all five kings, with Margery doubling down, had queens... Greyjoy, Jeyne Westerling, and Selys filling out the five... Then you have Cersei lingering around. turns out there are still a lot of Queens... But it sure does sound like he means Sansa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevets Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I think it is Cersei, Margaery, and Daenerys. Illyrio was expecting Daenerys to well on her way west by the time Tyrion and Young Griff got to Volantis. He is probably not the only one thinking this. If you assume Dany is on her west, then she will arrive long before Sansa is a position to do much of anything at all. There are still a lot of hoops to go through before Sansa can become a Queen of any sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Just now, Nevets said: I think it is Cersei, Margaery, and Daenerys. Illyrio was expecting Daenerys to well on her way west by the time Tyrion and Young Griff got to Volantis. He is probably not the only one thinking this. If you assume Dany is on her west, then she will arrive long before Sansa is a position to do much of anything at all. There are still a lot of hoops to go through before Sansa can become a Queen of any sort. I think the plan is for Sansa to show up to her wedding to Harry the heir wearing Stark colors and claiming to be Rob's heir, since nobody in the vale (her included) seems to know better... Thus queen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 15 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said: I think the plan is for Sansa to show up to her wedding to Harry the heir wearing Stark colors and claiming to be Rob's heir, since nobody in the vale (her included) seems to know better... Thus queen Does Littlefinger plan to oppose the Iron Throne or does he simply want control over multiple regions? I'm inclined to the latter because I don't think that Littlefinger takes stupid risks. If he positions Sansa as queen of the North and the Vale then that engenders conflict with either the Tyrell-Lannister alliance or the potential Daenerys dragon backed army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 17 minutes ago, Winter's Cold said: Does Littlefinger plan to oppose the Iron Throne or does he simply want control over multiple regions? I'm inclined to the latter because I don't think that Littlefinger takes stupid risks. If he positions Sansa as queen of the North and the Vale then that engenders conflict with either the Tyrell-Lannister alliance or the potential Daenerys dragon backed army. Queen of the North, the Vale (post robbin), and the Riverlands... While Dany hasn't directly threatened Westeros yet (though the Iron Fleet is poised to act as a mass evil aquatic Uber), JonCon and Aegon have... occupying the Stormlands and posing a direct threat to those in King's Landing. Dorne is still playing Wildcard... but they are also as far away as possible from theoretical Sansaland. The Lannisters are dropping like flies, with Cersei about to be tried, Jamie missing, and regent Kevan recently offed. The Tyrells have their forces in Kings Landing caught between the faith and a dragon. While Oldtown is practically under siege by Krakens and the their old foes the Dornish are massed in the passes. Given that the Vale's forces are still fresh and untroubled, I'm not sure it would seem like such a stupid risk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Cold Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 7 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said: Queen of the North, the Vale (post robbin), and the Riverlands... While Dany hasn't directly threatened Westeros yet (though the Iron Fleet is poised to act as a mass evil aquatic Uber), JonCon and Aegon have... occupying the Stormlands and posing a direct threat to those in King's Landing. Dorne is still playing Wildcard... but they are also as far away as possible from theoretical Sansaland. The Lannisters are dropping like flies, with Cersei about to be tried, Jamie missing, and regent Kevan recently offed. The Tyrells have their forces in Kings Landing caught between the faith and a dragon. While Oldtown is practically under siege by Krakens and the their old foes the Dornish are massed in the passes. Given that the Vale's forces are still fresh and untroubled, I'm not sure it would seem like such a stupid risk... True it's unlikely that the Tyrells and Lannisters would be able to immediately react to Sansa crowning herself. Ultimately, whoever ends up with control of the Iron Throne will definitely view Sansa/Littlerfinger as enemy and will take steps to deal with them accordingly. More specifically, what does Littlefinger gain from declaring Sansa as queen? He would already have control of all three of those regions without angering the Iron Throne needlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveFirstDieLater Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 6 minutes ago, Winter's Cold said: True it's unlikely that the Tyrells and Lannisters would be able to immediately react to Sansa crowning herself. Ultimately, whoever ends up with control of the Iron Throne will definitely view Sansa/Littlerfinger as enemy and will take steps to deal with them accordingly. More specifically, what does Littlefinger gain from declaring Sansa as queen? He would already have control of all three of those regions without angering the Iron Throne needlessly. Well they might not view Sansa as an enemy if they were related... Also, to be clear I was suggesting what the plan here is... not the outcome As for Little Finger's motive... probably wealth, power, and influence? He has only a very limited and temporary power over the Vale now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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