If the Freys kill Edmure Tully

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

Assuming Edmure hasn't got Roslin Frey pregnant, who is the heir to Riverrun if the Freys kill him? Would it go to Cat's children, meaning Bran is next in line?  Can Bran be heir to both Winterfell and Riverrun or would he be obliged to pass Riverrun on to next in line?  Could he be official Lord of Riverrun and leave the Blackfish there as castellan?  Could Sansa rock up and say it's her (assuming nobody knows where Bran & Rickon are)?  It would certainly be a good way to join them to her cause.

I mean, I know it's all a moot point once the apocalypse of ice zombies kicks off, but got me wondering anyway 

[Charlie Of House Bucket]

Good question. 

I think so.  Copy/pasting an answer I found online and assuming it's correct, succession rules in Westeros (except for Dorne) go like this:

1. Succession goes to the King's eldest male child's line, meaning that even if the eldest male child is dead the succession passed through to his heirs, and only after that line is explored do we go to the next step.

2. When a King has no male children or their lines are extinguished, succession goes to the eldest female child's line.

3. When a King has no children or their lines are extinguished, we go through the same steps 1 & 2 but among the King's siblings (i.e. His father's children).

4. If we still have no heirs we go up a level. In other words we search through the King's grandfather's children.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hoster was an unfortunate parent.  Since Catelyn is the elder of the two Tully sisters, the line would go through her to Bran according to those rules.  If all Stark kids and Robert Arryn hypothetically die, apparently Tully succession would then go to Brynden, who I believe is childless. 

As for if Bran can be heir to both Winterfell and Riverrun, I'm pretty sure this is also yes, but it does raise the question of whether the Tully lordship would simply be subsumed by Starks, assuming Bran had kids of his own, so I'm not sure.

[Smoke317]

Sansa will get Riverrun. She's always been a summer girl like her mother. She'll be happier there than in the North. 

[Good Guy Garlan]

The order of succession of Riverrun in the show is:

- Edmure

- Edmure's potential child

- Bran

- Rickon

- Sansa (and Ramsay. Ugh)

- Arya

- Robin Arryn

- Blackfish

And yeah, my understanding is that a lord of more than one castle can give it to a sibling, like Robert did with Storm's End, and he/she can name who they please as castellan. 

[Lemore]

2 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

The order of succession of Riverrun in the show is:

- Edmure

- Edmure's potential child

- Bran

- Rickon

- Sansa (and Ramsay. Ugh)

- Arya

- Robin Arryn

- Blackfish

And yeah, my understanding is that a lord of more than one castle can give it to a sibling, like Robert did with Storm's End, and he/she can name who they please as castellan. 

And what about Jon? Do bastards have absolutely no claims what so ever unless they're legitimised? 

 

ETA : I forgot he's a Stark bastard not a Tully 

[RedShirt47]

22 minutes ago, Lemore said:

And what about Jon? Do bastards have absolutely no claims what so ever unless they're legitimised? 

 

ETA : I forgot he's a Stark bastard not a Tully 

Jon has no Tully blood (not being Catelyn's). So even legitimised he wouldn't be in the running for Riverrun.

Really the rules don't mean a whole lot in this situation. The Crown has given the Riverlands to the Freys. So not it is down to who the River Lords will follow. I think they would follow Sansa as she has Tully look and mannerisms. She has always taken after her mother. Then they have to take the Riverlands by force, hold it and get recognised by the Crown or be strong enough to remain independent.

I think the River Lords are less likely to follow Bran or Rickon, they're young and wouldn't make strong rulers for such a fight. Unless Blackfish supported them as a regent or something.

[Lemore]

3 minutes ago, RedShirt47 said:

Jon has no Tully blood (not being Catelyn's). So even legitimised he wouldn't be in the running for Riverrun.

Really the rules don't mean a whole lot in this situation. The Crown has given the Riverlands to the Freys. So not it is down to who the River Lords will follow. I think they would follow Sansa as she has Tully look and mannerisms. She has always taken after her mother. Then they have to take the Riverlands by force, hold it and get recognised by the Crown or be strong enough to remain independent.

I think the River Lords are less likely to follow Bran or Rickon, they're young and wouldn't make strong rulers for such a fight. Unless Blackfish supported them as a regent or something.

Thanks, yeah I think the Riverlands would be perfect for Sansa actually, I hope that happens

[CockroachCaptain]

6 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Sansa will get Riverrun. She's always been a summer girl like her mother. She'll be happier there than in the North. 

*would have been happier there

She's blossoming into a true Northerner and the most diplomatic of the current Stark brood. I've always thought she would end up being the one that returned to Winterfell (and am perpetually afraid Rickon won't), though Bran is looking like a better and better candidate these days.

[Lemore]

14 minutes ago, CockroachCaptain said:

*would have been happier there

She's blossoming into a true Northerner and the most diplomatic of the current Stark brood. I've always thought she would end up being the one that returned to Winterfell (and am perpetually afraid Rickon won't), though Bran is looking like a better and better candidate these days.

I'd be really surprised if Rickon gets out of Ramsays clutches alive as well

[CockroachCaptain]

1 minute ago, Lemore said:

I'd be really surprised if Rickon gets out of Ramsays clutches alive as well

There's a chance, but I'm braced for the worst. Winter is Coming.

[Lemore]

Just now, CockroachCaptain said:

There's a chance, but I'm braced for the worst. Winter is Coming.

Indeed. GRRM hasn't killed a Stark in a while now as well.............. 

[dbunting]

Yeah, I can't see any way that Rickon isn't already being flayed. They may simply not show any of it because he is so young. Ramsey's hold on Winterfell is reliant on all Starks being dead so Rickon has to die.

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

I agree, Sansa would be a good choice although she does seem to have finally discovered her love for Winterfell and the north. She needs to make sure Ramsay is out of the picture though! A lot of Freys would probably need to go too as they seem intent on becoming the top house in the Riverlands.

[Net-Viper X]

I don't know about inheritance, but if Brutus got killed I think the morale among males in Westeros would go up substantially knowing that the lovely Roslin Frey was single and available again.

[ErasmusF]

On 6/1/2016 at 5:53 PM, Charlie Of House Bucket said:

As for if Bran can be heir to both Winterfell and Riverrun, I'm pretty sure this is also yes, but it does raise the question of whether the Tully lordship would simply be subsumed by Starks, assuming Bran had kids of his own, so I'm not sure.

Bran can be lord of both Winterfell and Riverrun but he couldn't possibly hold them both and his bannermen would likely not go for it. Nor would any king in his right mind. One of the lesser lords would likely take the seat and claim to be the Lord Paramount or Warden with the King's blessing. If Bran were smart, he would give the seat to Rickon, assuming he's alive, or arrange a marriage between Sansa and Arya to a second son of a powerful house in the Trident. Hoster Blackwood would be a natural choice, since the families go back a ways. There is a Mallister brother who would be a good candidate as well.  He might even be able to demand that the son take the Tully name. Hell if it was Hoster Blackwood, he would not even have to change the stationary. Imagine how pleased the Maester would be.