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How Much Did GRRM tell D&D?


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5 minutes ago, lancerman said:

And book Jon wanted the entire Night's Watch to commit treason almost instantly after reading the pink letter. So let's not ct like Jon is some cool hand luke character.

No he didn't 

he got the wil dings to help him 

so he could protect the night watch

sort of like he was thinking the situation through 

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Just now, SerMixalot said:

No he didn't 

he got the wil dings to help him 

so he could protect the night watch

sort of like he was thinking the situation through 

He asked them to join him. He didn't make them, but he clearly was counting on their help. Also as LC he represents he Night's Watch. That is treason either way you cut it. He was the head of a neutral military entity and was going to attack a Lord of the country he was sworn to protect with the help of outsiders and members of his neutral forces. All because a letter rattled him.

But his brother is in a life or death situation and he runs out to desperately try to save him, and that's unforgiveable. lol nice try

 

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11 minutes ago, lancerman said:

And book Jon wanted the entire Night's Watch to commit treason almost instantly after reading the pink letter. So let's not ct like Jon is some cool hand luke character.

As in: he was in conference with Tormund for two hours after reading the Pink Letter and specifically then he says no NW man has to break his vows for Jon and gives the orders for the Hardhome mission and asks if anyone wants to join him, and the Wildlings respond.  This is the opposite of what you've said.  Okay then.

 

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13 minutes ago, lancerman said:

He asked them to join him. He didn't make them, but he clearly was counting on their help. Also as LC he represents he Night's Watch. That is treason either way you cut it. He was the head of a neutral military entity and was going to attack a Lord of the country he was sworn to protect with the help of outsiders and members of his neutral forces. All because a letter rattled him.

But his brother is in a life or death situation and he runs out to desperately try to save him, and that's unforgiveable. lol nice try

 

Jon Quote:

" The Night's Watch takes no part in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms,....and I mean to make him answer for those words...but I will not ask my brothers to forswear their vows.

So you are 100% wrong.

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22 minutes ago, lancerman said:

And book Jon wanted the entire Night's Watch to commit treason almost instantly after reading the pink letter. So let's not ct like Jon is some cool hand luke character.

No. He even thinks that this way he's the only one who can be accused of breaking the vows.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XIII 

"The Night's Watch takes no part in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms," Jon reminded them when some semblance of quiet had returned. "It is not for us to oppose the Bastard of Bolton, to avenge Stannis Baratheon, to defend his widow and his daughter. This creature who makes cloaks from the skins of women has sworn to cut my heart out, and I mean to make him answer for those words … but I will not ask my brothers to forswear their vows.

"The Night's Watch will make for Hardhome. I ride to Winterfell alone, unless …" Jon paused. "… is there any man here who will come stand with me?" 

The roar was all he could have hoped for, the tumult so loud that the two old shields tumbled from the walls. Soren Shieldbreaker was on his feet, the Wanderer as well. Toregg the Tall, Brogg, Harle the Huntsman and Harle the Handsome both, Ygon Oldfather, Blind Doss, even the Great Walrus. I have my swords, thought Jon Snow, and we are coming for you, Bastard.

 

 

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On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 0:45 PM, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I also don't think Martin finishing the books would have changed much in the show.

 

The real issue is that they are adapting huge amounts of story and material into a very limited number of episodes. It's simply not possible to do the story justice .

it feels like Martin has a lot of story left to tell. But the show clearly doesn't or it wouldn't be finishing so soon. It's more that they are looking at getting to the end in the most concise way possible. 

It might be however that Martin hadn't made clear just how much story was left, and gave them the impression that things were further ahead in the story than they are.

Quentyn is filler.  Jeune Poole is filler.  FAegon is filler.  FAegon, Essos, Dorne, etc.were pretty bad and boring in the books.

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1 minute ago, illinifan said:

Quentyn is filler.  Jeune Poole is filler.  FAegon is filler.  FAegon, Essos, Dorne, etc.were pretty bad and boring in the books.

Ummm Jeyne Poole is filler?  That arc is about Theon's redemption.  I can't see how anyone could argue that that is filler. It is one of the most touching stories in the entire series.

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3 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Quentyn is filler.  Jeune Poole is filler.  FAegon is filler.  FAegon, Essos, Dorne, etc.were pretty bad and boring in the books.

FAegon is filler? He represents the most important conflict for Daenerys. How is she going to react when she hears than a Targaryen who has a better claim than her seats on the IT? (I am guessing here that will happen before she leaves Mereen). Will she try to justify attacking him because of the HOTU mummer´s dragon? Aegon, fake or not, is vital for Dany´s arc, one of her toughest decissions. Without him she is just a "empowered badass" with dragons. Just as she appears in the show 

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6 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

FAegon is filler? He represents the most important conflict for Daenerys. How is she going to react when she hears than a Targaryen who has a better claim than her seats on the IT? (I am guessing here that will happen before she leaves Mereen). Will she try to justify attacking him because of the HOTU mummer´s dragon? Aegon, fake or not, is vital for Dany´s arc, one of her toughest decissions. Without him she is just a "empowered badass" with dragons. Just as she appears in the show 

Well that's only a guess seeing as it hasn't been written yet. It could just as easily be nothing more than one more road block Martin is creating to slow Dany down because he realised he's screwed up his timings. See everything after book one for examples of this.

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2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Well that's only a guess seeing as it hasn't been written yet. It could just as easily be nothing more than one more road block Martin is creating to slow Dany down because he realised he's screwed up his timings. See everything after book one for examples of this.

Well, except for there is no evidence of this so called realization.

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Sorry for the double post, but I messed up with quotes and don´t know how to fix it. 

I fail to see how FAegon is just a roadblock for Dany, you will have to explain that. What I know is that the conflict was foreshadowed in ACOK, so GRRM did not make him appear out of the blue because he did not know how to "delay" Dany´s arc.

You obviously think that the books are boring, crowded with filler and unnecessary. That is fine, you don´t have to like them. But some people do, and we do not think they are dragging unnecessarily, but fleshing out important issues that give the characters and the world depth and substance. And for us, as for Martin "the conflict of the heart with itself" is important. If FAegon is, as I think it has been foreshadowed, one of the most important sources of conflict for one of the main three characters, he is not filler. If the issue is whether he will sit the IT in the end, or is just a placeholder between Tommen and Dany, then he is likely the later and that is why he was cut from the show. It is clear where the showrunners priorities lie.

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8 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

Sorry for the double post, but I messed up with quotes and don´t know how to fix it. 

I fail to see how FAegon is just a roadblock for Dany, you will have to explain that. What I know is that the conflict was foreshadowed in ACOK, so GRRM did not make him appear out of the blue because he did not know how to "delay" Dany´s arc.

You obviously think that the books are boring, crowded with filler and unnecessary. That is fine, you don´t have to like them. But some people do, and we do not think they are dragging unnecessarily, but fleshing out important issues that give the characters and the world depth and substance. And for us, as for Martin "the conflict of the heart with itself" is important. If FAegon is, as I think it has been foreshadowed, one of the most important sources of conflict for one of the main three characters, he is not filler. If the issue is whether he will sit the IT in the end, or is just a placeholder between Tommen and Dany, then he is likely the later and that is why he was cut from the show. It is clear where the showrunners priorities lie.

I see F/ Aegon as a possible roadblock because his entire invention seems to serve very little purpose to the story except to be an obstacle. Whether it was an obstacle Martin came up with early or not is irrelevant. 

If all his purpose is , is to give Dany someone to get into conflict with when she gets across the sea then he is just a roadblock. He's just slowing her down, we know she's going to be there at the end , probably fighting the dead or something, it's just delaying the inevitable.

 

that the show could cut him out so easily says a lot as well. Like it or not.

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Why do D&D keep going back to the last two shitty filler books since they know the future of the series then reason would dictate they could cut and skip it all since they do what they want despite anything else.

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4 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

that the show could cut him out so easily says a lot as well. Like it or not.

The show already cut, added and twisted a lot of stuff that is important to me. At this point, I do not share D&D´s criteria about what is important and what not. I suggest you use your critical thinking skills on and do the same. You can disagree with me, but "if the show cut him, he is not important" is a poor base to debate. 

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2 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

The show already cut, added and twisted a lot of stuff that is important to me. At this point, I do not share D&D´s criteria about what is important and what not. I suggest you use your critical thinking skills on and do the same. You can disagree with me, but "if the show cut him, he is not important" is a poor base to debate. 

Sure we all take different things from the books. I don't mind the Aegon chapters, they are certainly more interesting than Danys. 

But Danys extreme lack of plot direction and pace is not an uncommon complaint.

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59 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Ummm Jeyne Poole is filler?  That arc is about Theon's redemption.  I can't see how anyone could argue that that is filler. It is one of the most touching stories in the entire series.

Jeyne Poole story could be given to Sansa as it was in the show.  Or even real Rickon.  The whining about the Sansa story in Season 5 is hypocritical if you think that giving the exact same story to a minor character no one remembers is okay.  

And I am getting really tired of secret and hidden characters in the books.  Martin says the GOT is meant to address the common misconceptions on record and then abuses one of the laziest tropes out there again and again, hidden secret royals.

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14 minutes ago, illinifan said:

Jeyne Poole story could be given to Sansa as it was in the show.  Or even real Rickon.  The whining about the Sansa story in Season 5 is hypocritical if you think that giving the exact same story to a minor character no one remembers is okay.  

And I am getting really tired of secret and hidden characters in the books.  Martin says the GOT is meant to address the common misconceptions on record and then abuses one of the laziest tropes out there again and again, hidden secret royals.

So Theon's redemption arc should be clouded with Sansa or Rickon, ok

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