Jump to content

The Others in Yi Ti


Samantha Stark

Recommended Posts

Forgive me if this has been posted before but I always found it interesting.

The Long Night was obviously a world wide phenomenon and cultures around Planetos have variations of the same tale. In Yi Ti specifically there is a similar fortification to the wall(Or five of them actually in the form of the five forts) that guard against the 'Demons of the Lion of the Night'. Perhaps there was some ancient land bridge that once linked the northmost regions of the continents just like the broken arm, and when it was lost it trapped others on the other side? Either way, is it possible that the others will menace the far east of the world just like they are currently marching on the far north?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The land could have been connected by ice sheets forming in the northern seas and the Others could have crossed into Essos that way. Or a land bridge could have been exposed if sea level dropped enough. If it gets cold enough during winter, the land bridge could be exposed again or the massive ice sheets reform and the Others could cross into Essos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Westeros and Essos were ever connected aside from the Arm, but I do think there are others in Essos. Not just the Five Forts, but you also have the Grey Waste which according to legend is a cold, grey desert. But looking at it, it doesn't seem to be North enough to be constantly cold all year round. And then you have the Cities of the Bloodless Men, which sounds similar to Wights.

 

Of course, since all of this is in the legendary Far East it could just be myths and half-truths. But I still find it too much for simple coincidence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OT

The small reference, in the books, of a grey plague hitting the very advanced empire of Yi Ti is suspicious. I think the essosi wights are already attacking the eastern borders of planetos and may have been sighted in poorer towns of the empire but the rumours, due to cultural difference and old ways of getting news around, morphed into 'grey plague hitting that weird-ass-empire further east'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, TheSovereignGrave said:

I don't think Westeros and Essos were ever connected aside from the Arm, but I do think there are others in Essos. Not just the Five Forts, but you also have the Grey Waste which according to legend is a cold, grey desert. But looking at it, it doesn't seem to be North enough to be constantly cold all year round. And then you have the Cities of the Bloodless Men, which sounds similar to Wights.

 

Of course, since all of this is in the legendary Far East it could just be myths and half-truths. But I still find it too much for simple coincidence.

I like to think it's true. After all the story is told from a Westerosi-centric viewpoint, and I imagine in Yi Ti they view everything they hear about Westeros with a grain of salt as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

OT

The small reference, in the books, of a grey plague hitting the very advanced empire of Yi Ti is suspicious. I think the essosi wights are already attacking the eastern borders of planetos and may have been sighted in poorer towns of the empire but the rumours, due to cultural difference and old ways of getting news around, morphed into 'grey plague hitting that weird-ass-empire further east'.

I think it's called Grey Plague, because the plague (Wights) are from the Grey Waste!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Samantha Stark said:

Forgive me if this has been posted before but I always found it interesting.

The Long Night was obviously a world wide phenomenon and cultures around Planetos have variations of the same tale. In Yi Ti specifically there is a similar fortification to the wall(Or five of them actually in the form of the five forts) that guard against the 'Demons of the Lion of the Night'. Perhaps there was some ancient land bridge that once linked the northmost regions of the continents just like the broken arm, and when it was lost it trapped others on the other side? Either way, is it possible that the others will menace the far east of the world just like they are currently marching on the far north?

I am pretty sure that GRRM confirmed that planetos is the same shape as earth...oblique spheroid. I would need to take a map and drape it over a globe to figure it out, but I don't see why the north doesn't or wound't continue on the other side. Even if it continued in water, it might be a reasonable assumption that during the long night the water was all frozen over so that white walkers or wights could get there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Samantha Stark said:

I like to think it's true. After all the story is told from a Westerosi-centric viewpoint, and I imagine in Yi Ti they view everything they hear about Westeros with a grain of salt as well.

which would totally make sense given the way the pov chapters work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does it make sense Geographically and Climate wise for the Others to be anywhere other that the very far North of westeros. 

Maybe there's an Ice bridge maybe the Others have ships, Who knows? But I think the Others are a Westeros issue and the Greyscale is an essos problem. But there legends could share commonalities that would make it seem the Others were all over the Planet. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

Does it make sense Geographically and Climate wise for the Others to be anywhere other that the very far North of westeros. 

Maybe there's an Ice bridge maybe the Others have ships, Who knows? But I think the Others are a Westeros issue and the Greyscale is an essos problem. But there legends could share commonalities that would make it seem the Others were all over the Planet. 

Yes, if the Long Night is a world wide phenomenon I don't doubt we have an Other-like similar figure in the far East. Even if we follow the show and link the children of the forest with them, there are still some children of the forest-like creatures just around the corner: the wood walkers in Ifequevron are said to have been killed by the ibbenneese, just as the First Men and andals killed the children of the forest but oh, the latter still lives in hiding.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

Does it make sense Geographically and Climate wise for the Others to be anywhere other that the very far North of westeros. 

Maybe there's an Ice bridge maybe the Others have ships, Who knows? But I think the Others are a Westeros issue and the Greyscale is an essos problem. But there legends could share commonalities that would make it seem the Others were all over the Planet. 

That is true from what we know, but I think this could possibly be simply remedied with the Grey Waste. It's supposedly an expansive, grey, cold desert, which doesn't make sense for something at about the same latitude as the Crownlands. True, it could just be a legend but if true than it either points to our maps just being horrifically wrong (but then places north of it are never described as being exceptionally cold) or there's something making it colder than it should be.

And Dragonstone is in Westeros, but I believe that was where Shirren became infected with Greyscale. And the Wiki says that "cold, damp climates like the Iron Islands and Dragonstone are also prone to the disease" and greyscale is said to be one of the many diseases that Sothoryos is riddled with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The children of the forest created the others to help combat the invasion of the first men. So we know they originated in westeros. So I wouldn't be so sure they will be present it have a large impact on the east. Perhaps they could geographically get there but if not maybe another force, similar to but not the same as the others, is responsible for the stories from the east. 

 

Edit: also if the others attacked the east too, despite the story being told from a westerosi slanted POV, we certainly should have some knowledge from the Nights Watch mentioning similar orders in the east. We have history/legends of the NW several since its inception. I'd have to think a legend of assisting or even hearing about similar invasions or, again, orders in the east would be mentioned. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Zoo_Dane said:

The children of the forest created the others to help combat the invasion of the first men. So we know they originated in westeros. So I wouldn't be so sure they will be present it have a large impact on the east. Perhaps they could geographically get there but if not maybe another force, similar to but not the same as the others, is responsible for the stories from the east. 

That is from the show and thus has no bearing on the books. 

GRRM has even said the show and the books are two completely different things! 

Remember the show hasn't spoiled any thing from the books it is doing its own thing. Why do you think GRRM isn't worried about spoilers? Because there are none!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Sensenmenn said:

That is from the show and thus has no bearing on the books. 

You're right! I get lost between the book and show forums on occasion, that's my bad. 

 

But still, I edited my original comment to add, I would expect that despite a westerosi centric story the Nights Watch should have some sort of legend/history about an alliance with or similar orders as them in the East. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Zoo_Dane said:

You're right! I get lost between the book and show forums on occasion, that's my bad. 

 

But still, I edited my original comment to add, I would expect that despite a westerosi centric story the Nights Watch should have some sort of legend/history about an alliance with or similar orders as them in the East. 

Except there isn't necessarily a similar order in the East. For all we know the Five Forts are just manned by YiTish soldiers, and not their own dedicated Order.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we consider that the essosi usually don't employ their own people to fight their battles but mercenary companies and dedicated military corps like the Unsullied, I have no doubt the Five Forts are manned by some kind of order. I dont see any other way that those huge forts can be permanently manned, just as the Wall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

If we consider that the essosi usually don't employ their own people to fight their battles but mercenary companies and dedicated military corps like the Unsullied, I have no doubt the Five Forts are manned by some kind of order. I dont see any other way that those huge forts can be permanently manned, just as the Wall.

Um, the Free Cities use mercenaries rather than their own soldiers. Yi Ti is far from being anything like the Free Cities; it's an actual Empire. Granted at the moment it's not in the best of positions, what with the civil war said to be going on, but I don't see any reason to assume they'd exclusively use mercenaries. It'd be kind of silly, really. And why couldn't it just be manned by YiTish soldiers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, TheSovereignGrave said:

Um, the Free Cities use mercenaries rather than their own soldiers. Yi Ti is far from being anything like the Free Cities; it's an actual Empire. Granted at the moment it's not in the best of positions, what with the civil war said to be going on, but I don't see any reason to assume they'd exclusively use mercenaries. It'd be kind of silly, really. And why couldn't it just be manned by YiTish soldiers?

BEcause it's expensive, the Yi Ti is not a unified empire, since the god-emperor only has a nominal power. A 'City watch' might the closest thing to a professional army that could be stationed in the Forts, but it still needs a consistent method of payment, that I doubt an empire that is divided into cities each seeking their own interest would agree to pay. Easiest way is to stablish an order, like the Night's Watch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...