Outcome of the battle of the bastards[ potential spoilers]

[throney]

27 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Truede could have just only remembered Davos' part, he says more than once that he doesnt remember everything. What makes me think he is on the money is that he mentioned that Lyanna had about 60 people to spare.

True. I wasn't saying they're not legit, just to be mindful. Truede has been on the mark. As I said might be some of what was shot ended on the cutting room floor.

[Red Tiger]

11 minutes ago, throney said:

True. I wasn't saying they're not legit, just to be mindful. Truede has been on the mark. As I said might be some of what was shot ended on the cutting room floor.

Always a possibility. He was wrong about the Summer thing as well, but that was CGI, so that wasnt so strange.

[throney]

23 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

Always a possibility. He was wrong about the Summer thing as well, but that was CGI, so that wasnt so strange.

I love me some spoilers but the leaks don't tell us the nuances of scenes. I mean Jon and Sansa arcs so far have been a little underwhelming. It was not what I was expecting from said leaks.

[Red Tiger]

5 minutes ago, throney said:

I love me some spoilers but the leaks don't tell us the nuances of scenes. I mean Jon and Sansa arcs so far have been a little underwhelming. It was not what I was expecting from said leaks.

I honestly wasnt expecting much from them anyway. Everytime I think the Northern plot will finally get interesting, im dissappointed.

[Lord Friendzone]

1 hour ago, Red Tiger said:

Always a possibility. He was wrong about the Summer thing as well, but that was CGI, so that wasnt so strange.

Truede never mentioned Summer. 3ER, Hodor and CotF. Pretty much has been spot on with things. Only souce that said that about Ramsay and Wun Wun which I tend to believe given this is D&D story.

[Red Tiger]

1 minute ago, Lord Friendzone said:

Truede never mentioned Summer. 3ER, Hodor and CotF. Pretty much has been spot on with things. Only souce that said that about Ramsay and Wun Wun which I tend to believe given this is D&D story.

My apologies, I heard something about him elaborating on the cave battle.

[Conchobar]

On 06/06/2016 at 3:39 PM, SevasTra82 said:

 

There are already season spoilers out there of the outcome of the battle.  Only one Stark dies in this battle, and it's not Jon.

Put that in spoilers please.

[Conchobar]

On 07/06/2016 at 1:56 AM, TheGreenBell said:

According to 2 people who leaked the outcome on reddit

  Hide contents

Ramsay and Jon meet across the battlefield. Ramsay releases Rickon and tells him to run toward his brother. As Rickon runs, Ramsay starts shooting arrows up in the air one at a time that keep missing him. Jon starts galloping toward Rickon but just as he reaches him, one of Ramsay's arrow hits him and he dies in Jon's arms. Sansa is the smart one. She tells Jon before the battle that Rickon is already dead.

Jon chooses to imprison Ramsay rather than kill him.

and...

  Hide contents

http://s33.postimg.org/81zwr0l9q/BPn_V.jpg

 

Why the fuck would someone post this if it is true? Some kind of fucking ass hole looking for attention. I stopped reading half way through.

[elbucho3]

Having been an extra in a movie before, I can honestly say that I had no clue what the hell was going on in the scenes I shot. I have no reason not to believe the original poster, but I'm 100% confident that if you're an extra in a battle scene, you're not on set longer than you need to be for the three or four shots that you're actually in, and nothing is shot sequentially to the point where you could piece together an entire story line from your involvement in the filming. 

[Conchobar]

2 hours ago, elbucho3 said:

Having been an extra in a movie before, I can honestly say that I had no clue what the hell was going on in the scenes I shot. I have no reason not to believe the original poster, but I'm 100% confident that if you're an extra in a battle scene, you're not on set longer than you need to be for the three or four shots that you're actually in, and nothing is shot sequentially to the point where you could piece together an entire story line from your involvement in the filming. 

agreed

[The Imp slap]

Jon won't die, there is no shock value in killing him again and he is (very probably) one of the (2/3) heroes of ASOIAF.

Ramsay should be raped by win-win then flayed, then lain on white sheets to recreate his house sigil - before being eaten by Ghost. 

[The Imp slap]

3 hours ago, elbucho3 said:

Having been an extra in a movie before, I can honestly say that I had no clue what the hell was going on in the scenes I shot. I have no reason not to believe the original poster, but I'm 100% confident that if you're an extra in a battle scene, you're not on set longer than you need to be for the three or four shots that you're actually in, and nothing is shot sequentially to the point where you could piece together an entire story line from your involvement in the filming. 

 

1 hour ago, Conchobar said:

agreed

As a film producer (much smaller productions) I can confirm you that extras don't know what's going on, receive separate coaching, don't have access to the script and aren't on set more than needed (every hour costs the production). Plus I really don't think anyone would want to meet HBO's lawyers. Now, small roles - say wildling X who has one line and will stand next to Thormund during the battle - would have access to more info but those people would be committing career suicide by revealing such info. 

So, either the spoilers are false or they have been posted by someone who didn't sign anything (very unlikely given the remote locations they are filming at). Could also be someone very stupid. 

[Conchobar]

1 hour ago, The Imp slap said:

 

As a film producer (much smaller productions) I can confirm you that extras don't know what's going on, receive separate coaching, don't have access to the script and aren't on set more than needed (every hour costs the production). Plus I really don't think anyone would want to meet HBO's lawyers. Now, small roles - say wildling X who has one line and will stand next to Thormund during the battle - would have access to more info but those people would be committing career suicide by revealing such info. 

So, either the spoilers are false or they have been posted by someone who didn't sign anything (very unlikely given the remote locations they are filming at). Could also be someone very stupid. 

I will admit to being an extra for GOT in the past, they used to show us a computer generated video of how the scene goes, so the extras are aware of the narrative of the scene before even filming.

[The Imp slap]

1 hour ago, Conchobar said:

I will admit to being an extra for GOT in the past, they used to show us a computer generated video of how the scene goes, so the extras are aware of the narrative of the scene before even filming.

Thanks for your input. Of course extra are aware of what happens in their scene, would be strange otherwise. What I meant with extras don't know what's going on is that you don't get to see much more than your scene as an extra  

[Conchobar]

4 hours ago, The Imp slap said:

Thanks for your input. Of course extra are aware of what happens in their scene, would be strange otherwise. What I meant with extras don't know what's going on is that you don't get to see much more than your scene as an extra  

Oh yes of course, but i was involved in a few scenes tied to that single thread. 

[King Edd of House Tollet]

Man, I am not liking not a bit of these spoilers

Not because the spoiler itself, but it think if the battle unfolds this way:

 

Spoiler

Makes Jon look very stupid. I mean, attacking an oponnet who outnumbers you 6 to 1? THAT'S FUCKING STUPID, THAT'S REALLY STUPID, makes me very angry and also make Jon looks a total moron.

Also, they're making the Vale counter-attack too much of an Ex-machina moment, which is lazy story-telling

Now, let me write a better way to develop this battle:

The Stark army and the Bolton army should have roughly the same size, but the Bolton would have some tactical advantage due to being in a defensive position.

The battle would resolve into an stalemate, with no clear victory, but with the Bolton's advantage of having a nearby stronghold to withdraw. At this point, having suffering massive losses, the Stark army would have no way to conquer back Winterfell and the Bolton would still control their home seat and the North. Very underwhelming and hopeless situation.

Then, at this point, the Vale army should arrive, cutting off the Bolton retreat and leaving Winterfell open to the remaining Stark army to retake it.

The End

 

[Masha]

47 minutes ago, King Edd of House Tollet said:

Man, I am not liking not a bit of these spoilers

Not because the spoiler itself, but it think if the battle unfolds this way:

 

  Hide contents

Makes Jon look very stupid. I mean, attacking an oponnet who outnumbers you 6 to 1? THAT'S FUCKING STUPID, THAT'S REALLY STUPID, makes me very angry and also make Jon looks a total moron.

Also, they're making the Vale counter-attack too much of an Ex-machina moment, which is lazy story-telling

Now, let me write a better way to develop this battle:

The Stark army and the Bolton army should have roughly the same size, but the Bolton would have some tactical advantage due to being in a defensive position.

The battle would resolve into an stalemate, with no clear victory, but with the Bolton's advantage of having a nearby stronghold to withdraw. At this point, having suffering massive losses, the Stark army would have no way to conquer back Winterfell and the Bolton would still control their home seat and the North. Very underwhelming and hopeless situation.

Then, at this point, the Vale army should arrive, cutting off the Bolton retreat and leaving Winterfell open to the remaining Stark army to retake it.

The End

 

Attacking now, might make more sense if time is urgent - saving Rickon, no other possibilities of allies, looks like Brianne and Tully's are not coming and not one other lord replies to letters, and not wanting to get bogged down by storm/snow and being on offensive than defensive is not stupid.

But your scenario would mean that Jon is incompetent /weak general and that would be worse. In this show, the heroes - Jon, Dany, etc might make stupid and impulsive decisions but faced with the battle they always show their mettle. 

Fighting a loosing battle with twice as little people and yet holding his own till overwhelming odds and dispair threatens to overwhelm his side and then have surprise reinforcements arrive and hope spring anew... 

But in your scenario, Jon and Ramsey have the same sized armies and Jon is so incompetent he is badly loosing??? Till more competent LF saves the day?

[King Edd of House Tollet]

54 minutes ago, Masha said:

Attacking now, might make more sense if time is urgent - saving Rickon, no other possibilities of allies, looks like Brianne and Tully's are not coming and not one other lord replies to letters, and not wanting to get bogged down by storm/snow and being on offensive than defensive is not stupid.

But your scenario would mean that Jon is incompetent /weak general and that would be worse. In this show, the heroes - Jon, Dany, etc might make stupid and impulsive decisions but faced with the battle they always show their mettle. 

Fighting a loosing battle with twice as little people and yet holding his own till overwhelming odds and dispair threatens to overwhelm his side and then have surprise reinforcements arrive and hope spring anew... 

But in your scenario, Jon and Ramsey have the same sized armies and Jon is so incompetent he is badly loosing??? Till more competent LF saves the day?

No, I never said he was losing, I said he was unable to win, that's two complety different things

I still believe that in the show's way (according to the spoilers, of course) are the ones making Jon stupid

[JonisHenryTudor]

There is a huge difference between shock value and killing a character who will not die until perhaps the end of the story just for shock value. The people they have killed for "shock" value, will probably die and have no real importance in the last book. Barristan, I think, is an example of this. Even Doran. 

They also spent huge chunks of the first episodes on Jon....so it makes very little sense to bring him back, and then kill him. 

[MtnLion]

14 minutes ago, King Edd of House Tollet said:

No, I never said he was losing, I said he was unable to win, that's two complety different things

I still believe that in the show's way (according to the spoilers, of course) are the ones making Jon stupid

I look for a reason for Ramsay to come out of a fortified position and fight.  That was a temptation for him, when Stannis and his army were falling apart.  "Let's go shoot fish in a barrel!"  If the odds were too even, Ramsay is smart to sit and let the elements take their toll on Jon and his army.  Maybe help the elements with some sneakiness, like Ramsay did with his twenty good men.  But, to go out and fight, Ramsay would need to be an utter loon, if the odds didn't favor his win in a major way.