Outcome of the battle of the bastards[ potential spoilers]

[Apathetic Onlooker]

3 minutes ago, Crowjack said:

It's Martin's fault that TWoW is a late. Now he has let D&D set the table, cook the banquet and serve it when they are busboys at best

It was an incredibly bad idea, to begin with,to even start development of an adaptation for a piece of a fiction that wasn't completed yet.

[~DarkHorse~]

43 minutes ago, Rory Snow said:

If you're correct, I would expect LF to attempt to make Jon not just King of the North, but to sit him on the Iron Throne with Baelish himself playing puppet master as King's Hand. No reason Jon would want that however, his focus is north of the Wall. But Jon as King in the North aligned with his Auntie Dany on the Iron Throne taking on the White Walkers sounds plausible the way things seem to be shaping up.

I don't think Jon will campaigning for the Iron Throne, instead he will try to unite as much of the realm as he can against the White Walkers. I am guessing that he will have half of the realm (The North, Riverlands and Vale) under his command, through Littlefinger and Sansa/Bran, and the Brotherhood without Banners will join him too. He already has the Wildlings (or what will be left of them after The Battle of the Bastards) as allies against the White Walkers.

In the trailer, we hear Tormund say, "I though he was the man who would lead us through the Long Night..." I think he is talking about Mance, but carries on to say, "I was wrong, it is you." This has yet to happen. I think it will happen when Jon is crowned as KitN in episode 10. Tormund (representing the Wildlings) will declare for Jon as their leader, alongside the Northern Houses, setting the theme for Jon being the one "to lead them through the Long Night."  This is why I don't think Bran will become KitN when he comes home next season, or Sansa. They are setting up Jon as the Aragorn figure, that will kick start the realm into action against the Real War. He needs to be KitN for that to happen, not merely taking a backseat as military leader for Sansa or Bran. But instead of being Jon Stark, he might eventually be forced to use his Targaryen lineage to further his influence. This is where Littlefinger and Bran comes in, forcing him to take up the mantle of being someone who has a claim to the Iron Throne. This way, Daenerys has a chink in her plan for 'taking back what is hers' because half of the realm are already rallying behind this other guy, who claims to be her nephew. Jon will incorporate some of (f)aegon's plot on the show, so things aren't so straight forward for Daenerys. But I think Jon and Dany will work together, after some initial uncertainty of each other. 

I hope this is what they are setting up. It would be good to have some Jon vs Dany rivalry. Littlefinger participating in this would make sense, it could further his influence and pit him against Varys, once more.  

[~DarkHorse~]

17 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said:

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 Davos lives because he carries Rickon's body. I heard it. Also heard nothing on Ghost besides rumoured scene in Godswood with LF and Jon. Tbh you might be right about Tormund. If you remember during one of the scenes from the trailer wildlings, Northerners are surrounded by Bolton pikes and Tormund is there. This must be towards end of the fight when Vale cavalry comes. Wun Wun is nowhere to be seen. A lot of spoilers said he'll die after crashing gates of Winterfell. WOTW confirmed Wun Wun entering Winterfell and people inside must defend themselves. Apparently he took a lot of pikes and arrows. Then arrow through his head.

I never heard that Davos one, but it definitely sounds like something Davos would do. I heard the Wun Wun one too- he is repeatedly stabbed by spikes, then takes an arrow through the eye, killing him. Also, that Jon chases Ramsay into Winterfell as he flees, then starts ruthlessly beating him to death, but is forced to stop as Sansa arrives. They definitely all seem plausible.

 

[Lord Friendzone]

5 minutes ago, ~DarkHorse~ said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I never heard that Davos one, but it definitely sounds like something Davos would do. I heard the Wun Wun one too- he is repeatedly stabbed by spikes, then takes an arrow through the eye, killing him. Also, that Jon chases Ramsay into Winterfell as he flees, then starts ruthlessly beating him to death, but is forced to stop as Sansa arrives. They definitely all seem plausible.

 

We know that Ramsey releases Rickon and Jon gallops to save him. As Rickon almost reaches him, he's shot with one of the arrows and dies in Jon's hands. This in my opinion might be the moment Jon snaps and will go darker path. Up until the point he has been sort of passive and not to kill. That would explain why he starts violently beating Ramsay almost to death. I heard LF will feed Ramsay to his hounds. It makes sense as LF to be the one to kill him and not Jon. Ramsay raped Sansa and LF cares for her. Also Mel will do her magic and protect Jon's army. So Wun Wun, Smalljon, Harald Karstark, Rickon and tons of wildlings. Ramsay afterwards too.[/ spoiler]

[Ser Rodrik Wyte]

This is what i posted in the s9 Synposis thread:

The Starks (in all their forms) are the key to protecting the North and this must tie in with their blood lineage and the COTF,  IMO that is. But as i said earlier the whole series has a habit of rug-pulling and outwitting any of my predictions (not a particularly hard feat for them i must admit). 

[Ruhail]

1 hour ago, Lord Friendzone said:

  Hide contents

 Davos lives because he carries Rickon's body. I heard it. Also heard nothing on Ghost besides rumoured scene in Godswood with LF and Jon. Tbh you might be right about Tormund. If you remember during one of the scenes from the trailer wildlings, Northerners are surrounded by Bolton pikes and Tormund is there. This must be towards end of the fight when Vale cavalry comes. Wun Wun is nowhere to be seen. A lot of spoilers said he'll die after crashing gates of Winterfell. WOTW confirmed Wun Wun entering Winterfell and people inside must defend themselves. Apparently he took a lot of pikes and arrows. Then arrow through his head.

Spoiler

Oh wow Davos sure does care about Rickon more than Shireen lol

 

[Red Tiger]

1 hour ago, Apathetic Onlooker said:

It was an incredibly bad idea, to begin with,to even start development of an adaptation for a piece of a fiction that wasn't completed yet.

Fullmetal Alchemist.

[Oberyn1104]

15 hours ago, tmug said:

I think that is a little too obvious villain plot to "take over the world", i doubt he is like Lex Luthor or something like that. I think his character would rather play puppet master than be king.

His speech to Ros in S1 pretty much said his intentions. I think he has a different kind of evil that is worse than Ramsay.

 

I have always though that LF will end up taking Harrenhal as promised and emerging as the hegemony in Westeros after the North is overrun KL is torched and the Riverlands are dealing with Lord Walder dying. However, I also think that LF is someone whose arrogance will be his undoing and he will be torched in Harrenhal like the original Harren the Black because he did not learn his history.

[Oberyn1104]

5 hours ago, Trollosi said:

If I were LF, I would wait till the battle is nearly over, then attack both bastards' tiring forces. Why should I help Jon's forces? Just to impress Sansa? But this seems to be the direction of the show.

I have always found the LF Bolton alliance plot a little dubious. What does LF gain from it. Turning the Last Stark and someone with strong sway in the Vale over to the most dangerous family in the North,who massacred her family, who he would have to know what Ramsay did to the Ironborn scum at MC. He knows Stannis is attacking soon, so leaving this important player in danger. What if a stray trebuchet load lands on her during the battle? All this risk for no reward. If he wants to defeat the Boltons, than giving them someone who straightens their claim on the North is silly. Why not wait for the conclusion of the Battle, and present sansa to Stannis to insert her as wardeness and gain norther support, or use her to mount an insurgency against the Boltons. And he is risking being labeled traitor by the people who made him Lord of Harrehall. I know D&D have said they did it because Sansa does little to nothing in the last two books, but they seem to have no problem bringing things that have no occurred into the books yet into play, or leaving a character to chill for a season i.e. Bran, or make up some silly unimportant plot for them. 

[DrownedSailor]

3 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Fullmetal Alchemist.

Hmmm... maybe if the books are ever finished, someone will do something like Brotherhood and reboot the series, sticking closer to the books...

[LordPathera]

5 hours ago, Red Tiger said:

Fullmetal Alchemist.

And the first anime was good despite the fact that the manga was unfinished and on hiatus at the time.

Then Brotherhood came along and blew the first one out of the water in many ways after the manga was finished.

So yeah, it appears to be better to adapt a story after it's finished and then you won't run into issues like season 5 and 6 have.

[JMJ]

22 hours ago, tmug said:

I think that is a little too obvious villain plot to "take over the world", i doubt he is like Lex Luthor or something like that. I think his character would rather play puppet master than be king.

His speech to Ros in S1 pretty much said his intentions. I think he has a different kind of evil that is worse than Ramsay.

 

No one is claiming LF is the stereotyped villain looking to take over the world whilst twirling his pencil-thin mustache. However, he does want more than just to create chaos. He wants the IT. 

[tmug]

2 minutes ago, JMJ said:

No one is claiming LF is the stereotyped villain looking to take over the world whilst twirling his pencil-thin mustache. However, he does want more than just to create chaos. He wants the IT. 

Well a sterotypical/cliche villain role is having that "take over the world" goal and to have LF's ultimate goal in all his scheming throughout this story is to win the Iron Throne? Seems pretty 1 dimensional and un-creative for his character who is by far probably the most cunning and intelligent player of them all. History has shown that the recent kings of Westeros do not seem like they have good endings and LF especially would have a target on his back as the king. I just don't see that as the main goal.

The smarter move for him is to ensue chaos and ensure that everyone loses, that is what he means when he says "I'm not going to fight them, I'm going to fuck them!" He played the nobility route and got his ass handed to by Brandon Stark, he won't play by their rules anymore.

I'd compare him to how the Joker was described in the Dark Knight, that some people just want to see the world burn. 

[Jonnie_The_Irish_Wildling]

A genuine and sincere live reaction video and predictions as to the outcome after watching the trailer for "Battle of the Bastards" from an Irish Wildlings perspective.

(Warning: This clip may contain vulgarities saturated with sarcasm and mediocre wit)

 

 

[solomon585858]

10 hours ago, ~DarkHorse~ said:

I don't think Jon will campaigning for the Iron Throne, instead he will try to unite as much of the realm as he can against the White Walkers. I am guessing that he will have half of the realm (The North, Riverlands and Vale) under his command, through Littlefinger and Sansa/Bran, and the Brotherhood without Banners will join him too. He already has the Wildlings (or what will be left of them after The Battle of the Bastards) as allies against the White Walkers.

In the trailer, we hear Tormund say, "I though he was the man who would lead us through the Long Night..." I think he is talking about Mance, but carries on to say, "I was wrong, it is you." This has yet to happen. I think it will happen when Jon is crowned as KitN in episode 10. Tormund (representing the Wildlings) will declare for Jon as their leader, alongside the Northern Houses, setting the theme for Jon being the one "to lead them through the Long Night."  This is why I don't think Bran will become KitN when he comes home next season, or Sansa. They are setting up Jon as the Aragorn figure, that will kick start the realm into action against the Real War. He needs to be KitN for that to happen, not merely taking a backseat as military leader for Sansa or Bran. But instead of being Jon Stark, he might eventually be forced to use his Targaryen lineage to further his influence. This is where Littlefinger and Bran comes in, forcing him to take up the mantle of being someone who has a claim to the Iron Throne. This way, Daenerys has a chink in her plan for 'taking back what is hers' because half of the realm are already rallying behind this other guy, who claims to be her nephew. Jon will incorporate some of (f)aegon's plot on the show, so things aren't so straight forward for Daenerys. But I think Jon and Dany will work together, after some initial uncertainty of each other. 

I hope this is what they are setting up. It would be good to have some Jon vs Dany rivalry. Littlefinger participating in this would make sense, it could further his influence and pit him against Varys, once more.  

Completely agree with you. I also thought about that idea. Glad I am not the ony one. I also think that Lannisters will also join Jon after Brienne talks to Jaime after he will learn what Cersei did to KL.

[Rory Snow]

12 hours ago, ~DarkHorse~ said:

I don't think Jon will campaigning for the Iron Throne, instead he will try to unite as much of the realm as he can against the White Walkers. I am guessing that he will have half of the realm (The North, Riverlands and Vale) under his command, through Littlefinger and Sansa/Bran, and the Brotherhood without Banners will join him too. He already has the Wildlings (or what will be left of them after The Battle of the Bastards) as allies against the White Walkers.

I agree, Jon will have no interest in the Iron Throne, King's Landing is nothing to him. My point was that if LF knows Jon's true lineage, it may be part of Baelish's motivation to put Jon on the Throne, you just know LF has some scheme in his head.

I can't see LF turning on the Starks, being part of his scheme. For one thing, the Knights of the Vale, who already hate Petyr anyway, would kill him outright for treason, ie: going against Robin Arryn's order to help Sansa. Secondly, and perhaps more important to a schemer like Baelish, there's far more upside for him being on a winning Stark side as opposed to being aligned with a victorious Ramsey. With Ramsey, Warden of the North is the absolute limit, no chance he could ever go higher than that, plus he's a complete loose cannon and impossible to control. But with the Starks, especially assuming LF knows Jon's parentage, the sky's the limit. Warden of the North, King of the North even the Iron Throne would all be within reach from Petyr's perspective. That sounds more like the type of wagon Littlefinger would want to be attached to. I do see a betrayal during the battle tho', when the Vale arrives and the tide turns giving the Stark's get the upper hand I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Umber's turn on Bolton, and make it a rout for the good guys.

[Red Tiger]

7 hours ago, LordPathera said:

And the first anime was good despite the fact that the manga was unfinished and on hiatus at the time.

Then Brotherhood came along and blew the first one out of the water in many ways after the manga was finished.

So yeah, it appears to be better to adapt a story after it's finished and then you won't run into issues like season 5 and 6 have.

My point is, you can do good work with an unfinished original story. The fact that these two seasons are shit are due to D&D lack of skill, not the surrounding circumstances.

I too thought Brotherhood was better, but the fandom seems to be pretty evenly split between both shows. 

[illinifan]

Here is some speculation about what happens that makes sense to me.  

Sansa tells Jon about her letter and the Vale army.  That really does have to come out.  Jon is angry at Sansa for lying but is counselled by Davos to forgive her.  Jon and Sansa know that reinforcements are coming before and Jon is using his army to draw Ramsay out of Winterfell.  The Vale army is supposed to come in from behind and surprise Ramsay.  

Things don't go as plan because 

Spoiler

Ramsay uses Rickon as a diversionary tactic and kills Rickon with arrows.  This sets the Wildlings off before Littlefinger can arrive.  The Vale arrives just in time and saves the day.

This would show that Jon isn't blindly charging into battle in a dumb manner.  He had a good military plan but things went awry.

[illinifan]

As for speculation about other plot points.  

Spoiler

Ramsay getting killed by dogs makes sense but I don't think that LF is the one who does it.  Sansa releases the dogs.

I also think that it makes sense that Littlefinger is the one who pieces together R+L=J.  At least five people have the information that they need to figure out Jon's parentage; it isn't rocket science.  Littlefinger has never met Jon, but interacting with Ned Stark's "bastard" might given him the final piece he needs to put everything together.  I don't think that LF currently knows because he would have used that piece of information against Ned if he did.  

Spoiler

A likely scenario for the season finale based on the spoilers we do know is that LF expects Winterfell as his reward for ridding the North of the Boltons.  However, the North does finally remember its allegiance to the Starks after Lyanna Mormont and the Wyman Manderlay stand in give speeches pledging fealty to Jon.  While LF is dealt a temporary set back, he does suspect that Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, not Ned's, after the council scene and plans to use this to his advantage.

 

[Tinker Tanner]

On 14 June 2016 at 11:47 PM, Trillmendous said:

that's a real medieval tactic that was used in war. Kind of like a skirmisher tactic as the opponents close in you have light armored ranged units like archers confront them from a range and move back as they get closer. When it's time for the melee confrontation then the shield wall deals with the weakened charging army. If you play the Total War series that's actually one of the most effective strategies.

Oh, ok i see. I've never touched a TW game, oh well live n learn i guess