The Tale Through Tywin's Eyes

[Knight of the Hungry Cow]

For Tywin, this is a tragic story. People continuously proclaim "Eddard" and "Robb" and even "Jon Snow" (who even KNOWS who that guy's mom is) as the true heroes of honor in this saga. I declare bull. Tywin is the unsung hero. R'hllor incarnate. The watcher on every wall. And I intend to prove it to you by showing you unequivocal proof that Tywin is the misunderstood hero, and the real King Arthur.

He is born to a rich family as the first son. But, while some may wish this fate, the young lion is forced to obey his father, who fails to have the Lannister spine that Tywin has.

So, Tywin tries to live a healthy, wealthy, powerful lifestyle, his father does the unthinkable: he marries his sister off to a Frey! A Frey! Surely that wouldn't be equal to a Lannister! So, Tywin yells at his father about this as the Reynes furiously retort, and what does Tywin receive in return?

A job as a cupbearer for Egg of course.

Since his father was such a goober, Tywin made it his mission to restore honor and power to his family name. So, after fighting in the Stepstones, he came home and demanded the vassals repay the Lannisters all their debts. Somehow, this was an unpopular decision amongst the vassals, particularly to those idiotic Reynes. Since they tried to rebel, Tywin did the natural solution: destroy everything. By doing so, he cleaned up the problem. Crisis averted! Not to mention, free of charge, he earned a song about it. All in a day's work, no?

To finish cleaning up this little mess, he forced his father's lover to parade down the streets nude due to her trying on his mother's dress (!), so he obliterated her reputation. Score one for the Lannisters.

Tywin was now one of the most powerful people in Westeros. Rightfully too, surely. He earned it by destroying all of those who opposed his family. He became Hand of the King to the good king Aerys II, and had twins with his cousin/wife Joanna. Times were good.

And then, Joanna, the love of his life, the best woman in all of Westeros and Essos, died. How? During childbirth, to a deformed son. A tragic blow to the honor of the house. How could he like something that killed his wife? Tyrion shamed House Lannister throughout his life.

Tywin's great life continued on this brief rough patch as him and that completely idiotic king Aerys II continued to go their separate ways. That fool became paranoid, and screwed Tywin over because of it. Unbelievable.

Naturally, when Robert rebelled, Tywin waited to make sure Robert had an actual chance at winning that thing. He wouldn't want to rush into anything stupid, surely. He wasn't stupid like Tyrion. So, Robert starts to win and Tywin marches to the castle and annihilates the entire Targaryen family line. Subtlety is overrated.

Tywin also found out that Tyrion did something else stupid, unsurprisingly, by marrying some random peasant. So, he made a lie about it and had her reputation demolished, and made Tyrion look at this situation as a lesson. His fault for being a fool.

Sadly, Tywin's fool Tyrion screwed them all over again when he was arrested by Catelyn Stark and war broke out. Stark against Lannister. The Starks were obviously never nearly as powerful as the Lannisters, not by a long shot, but Tywin still had to fight a moderately powerful house. Well done, Tyrion.

So Tywin has to lead a fight against the Starks while Joffrey cuts of Eddard Stark's head (not a great move). Then, his son that he actually usually likes that stupidly joined the Kingsguard which he certainly is not bitter about was captured at Riverrun. Wonderful. 

So Tywin has to fight here while Joffrey is attempting to defend King's Landing from Stannis, Robert's leftovers. So now Tywin has to go THERE too. Seriously? Is there a problem this guy doesn't solve?

Stannis fails, obviously, and everything is back to beating up Stark rebels. He hears about how Robb Stark married to some Westerlands girl (at least he chose a nice sector of Westeros) and figures now is the prime opportunity to make the rabble disappear. So, he has Robb assassinated by an enormous bloodbath called the Red Wedding. Red makes everyone think Lannister. A subtle touch.

Everything is sunshine and rainbows over in Lannister land. Well, except Joffrey died. He was poisoned. Naturally, there can only be one person who did that (looking at you, Tyrion). A trial is held, and, stupidly, Tyrion demands Trial by Combat. He even chooses a Martell as his champion. Wonderful. Another spill HE has to clean up.

So the Martell tries fighting the Mountain. As expected, the Martell loses. Tyrion is to be killed. One heck of a day.

And, lo and behold, Tyrion appears one last time while he is simply trying to use the loo. And he gets shot in the chest.

Really? After all he did, this is how he goes out? A toilet death? By Tyrion, lowest of lows?
 

Truly, Tywin is the hero of this story, and deserves unending praise. Remember the lion, always.

[James Steller]

This kind of contrived nonsense makes me question your seriousness.

I refuse to recognize any kind of real worth in a lesson which involves permitting a girl to be gang raped and having your son lie to the other son about the only positive relationship he's ever had with a woman, causing him mental anguish for the rest of his life.

Tywin was a Machiavellian monster, paradoxically obsessed with his family name while causing untold damage to his actual family members. It's the most fitting end in the entire ASOIAF story as far as I'm concerned: that Tywin is cruelly murdered by the son he despised and tried to kill, yet who turns out to be the best of his children. And while he lived a life of power and deceit and ruthlessness, his final moment leaves him on a privy with a crossbow bolt in his gut, fired by his own child, while his excrement and blood spill everywhere. And then his funeral is plagued by the stench, removing any dignity that his funeral might have had, while those in attendance have no love for his memory.

[NutBurz]

The thread is surely a funny exercise. Every character has their point of view.

 

But Jaime didn´t stupidly join the Kingsguard, he would be forced into it even if he didn´t want it.

And Tywin is very much aware, to his disgust probably, that the only thing he did to save King´s Landing from Stannis was to appoint Tyrion as Hand of the King. The end of the war would be different if Stannis had disembarked those ships.

And I hardly think even Tywin thought of himself as a "hero"  he was certainly respected out of fear and recognition in his capability as an administrator and strategist, but he was never loved by his people or even most of his family which he treasured to much.

[Ours is the Brewery]

Well done.

[Knight of the Hungry Cow]

16 minutes ago, NutBurz said:

But Jaime didn´t stupidly join the Kingsguard, he would be forced into it even if he didn´t want it.

And Tywin is very much aware, to his disgust probably, that the only thing he did to save King´s Landing from Stannis was to appoint Tyrion as Hand of the King. The end of the war would be different if Stannis had disembarked those ships.

And I hardly think even Tywin thought of himself as a "hero"  he was certainly respected out of fear and recognition in his capability as an administrator and strategist, but he was never loved by his people or even most of his family which he treasured to much.

These are all excellent points that Tywin would surely concur with. Thank you for improving upon this analysis. 

 

10 minutes ago, Ours is the Brewery said:

Well done.

Thank you. Thank you. You are too kind.

[TheSTARKempire]

A: oh hey look , there you see! another desperate attempt to defend tywin with all sorts of shit available.

B : I can't be bothered..

[Samantha Stark]

People have assured me that Tywin is an irredeemable monster and tyrant that embodies white male patriarchy privilege. How can there be any other truth than this?

[Lord Vance II]

If you're trying to say Tywin is the hero of his own story, sure, who isn't?

Tywin is a narcissist who never made a move that didn't serve him at another's expense and quite possibly never made a kind move in his life. He had zero regard for life and used all his talk of family to turn his family into pawns in his own self serving game. Capable? Sure. Powerful? Of Course. Hero? F*ck no. He death was appropriate. 

 

[dariopatke]

Also he killed 10 people at dinner to save 10k.

And he had to sit at CR for 15 years and listen stories of Roberts treatment of Cersei, the most beautiful girl if 7K.

He won war for Joff and how did he thank him? By insulting him. And Tyrion always failed to see what his father did for him by giving him Winterfell instead of some cabin in the woods (Sansa instead of Tysha), gave him as much money as he wanted and gave him life of Lannister, he even let him be Hand and he visited him when he was wounded, but Tyrion always insisted of being insulted. That spiteful little creature ful of hate who killed him eventually even if Tywin never intended to do such thing to his son and blood.

He was generous, too. He pardoned a lot of lords who supported false Kings and even made Marge a Queen.

[Dolorous22]

8 hours ago, James Steller said:

This kind of contrived nonsense makes me question your seriousness.

I refuse to recognize any kind of real worth in a lesson which involves permitting a girl to be gang raped and having your son lie to the other son about the only positive relationship he's ever had with a woman, causing him mental anguish for the rest of his life.

Tywin was a Machiavellian monster, paradoxically obsessed with his family name while causing untold damage to his actual family members. It's the most fitting end in the entire ASOIAF story as far as I'm concerned: that Tywin is cruelly murdered by the son he despised and tried to kill, yet who turns out to be the best of his children. And while he lived a life of power and deceit and ruthlessness, his final moment leaves him on a privy with a crossbow bolt in his gut, fired by his own child, while his excrement and blood spill everywhere. And then his funeral is plagued by the stench, removing any dignity that his funeral might have had, while those in attendance have no love for his memory.

Wonderfully put.

[CJ McLannister]

Tysha was unfortunate, but he had to teach his son a lesson, and commoner lives don't matter.  

The murder of Rhaegar's children, while overly brutal, was necessary.  If he hadn't done it, Robert would have.  The wrong tools were used to complete that task, and Tywin regretted that to a degree.

Tywin wasn't a hero and wouldn't want to be praised as one.  He was what he was.

[John Doe]

14 hours ago, James Steller said:

while those in attendance have no love for his memory.

Sure, that's why he was paraded out of the Godsgate, accompagnied by high lords and his grieving brother. And I guess Pycelle hated him too. 

[Maxxine]

I'm not sure how serious you are, but I pretty much agree with you with the exception of what he did with his father's mistress and Tysha. Except those two examples, I don't see Tywin as a monster. He was just someone who did what had to be done. The Reynes was harsh, but you're not going to disrespect me as your liege lord. Did he have to go that far? Maybe not, but he proved his point. The RW (which I'm not convinced was his idea, but just something where he gave permission) was terrible but I somewhat agree with his assessment of it. Why kill thousands when you can kill a few? Why? Honor? Honor is why Ned, Robb, and Jon are dead right now. And yeah killing Rhaegar's children is harsh too, but I understood the thought behind it. It wasn't because he gets off killing children, but bc if those children are alive they are a constant threat to Robert. A necessary evil. Yeah you can describe Tywin as cruel and all that, but everything he did, with the exceptions above, was for a strategical reason. It wasn't just for shits and giggles like Joffrey and Ramsay. I can't say I'm a fan and I don't see him as a hero but I don't see him as monster; just someone who would do what needed to be done. 

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

Tywin was a product of his society, but the lack of love for his son is pretty awful. As well, he has no respect for his chidren's wishes at all. Granted many lord's don't, but he obviously raised very willful children somehow. Also his murder of Rhaegar's children was horrific. He isn't a hero. I don't know what he is, but he isn't a hero by any stretch of the imagination. If their is an unsung hero of these books, its Catelyn Tully Stark, but that is for a different conversation. 

[CJ McLannister]

2 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Tywin was a product of his society, but the lack of love for his son is pretty awful. As well, he has no respect for his chidren's wishes at all. Granted many lord's don't, but he obviously raised very willful children somehow. Also his murder of Rhaegar's children was horrific. He isn't a hero. I don't know what he is, but he isn't a hero by any stretch of the imagination. If their is an unsung hero of these books, its Catelyn Tully Stark, but that is for a different conversation. 

Does your opinion change if Tywin knows Tyrion not to be his son?

For me, it kind of makes it worse.  Teaching your own child a lesson is harsh, but that's sort of a father's job.  But if Tyrion is actually a Targaryen bastard allowed to live only because of Tywin's devotion to his wife, why not just let him run off with a crofter's daughter?  

[Boarsbane]

6 minutes ago, CJ McLannister said:

Does your opinion change if Tywin knows Tyrion not to be his son?

For me, it kind of makes it worse.  Teaching your own child a lesson is harsh, but that's sort of a father's job.  But if Tyrion is actually a Targaryen bastard allowed to live only because of Tywin's devotion to his wife, why not just let him run off with a crofter's daughter?  

Because the rest of the world believes he's Tywin's son and the Lannisters would be made a mockery of letting a member marry a commoner. Not that what he did was right but he could never let the marriage stand.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

10 minutes ago, CJ McLannister said:

Does your opinion change if Tywin knows Tyrion not to be his son?

For me, it kind of makes it worse.  Teaching your own child a lesson is harsh, but that's sort of a father's job.  But if Tyrion is actually a Targaryen bastard allowed to live only because of Tywin's devotion to his wife, why not just let him run off with a crofter's daughter?  

God, please no. If there was a number one theory I hated with a passion that burned in my soul, it would be that Tyrion is a Targaryen. He is not a Targaryen. Please don't make me argue about this on an unrelated post. I am so sick of Tyrion fanboys and fangirls. He ISN'T a Targaryen. I'll put money. Let's have a bet. I'll put 100 dollars down. Tyrion isn't a Targaryen. 

[CJ McLannister]

1 minute ago, Boarsbane said:

Because the rest of the world believes he's Tywin's son and the Lannisters would be made a mockery of letting a member marry a commoner. Not that what he did was right but he could never let the marriage stand.

I guess.  He would never want to reveal the truth about the parentage because it would dishonor his wife.  But Tyrion was a dwarf whose marriage prospects were never going to be in line with his position.  I feel like it could almost be an out for Tywin.  He could simply disown him on account of dishonoring the family rather than disowning him because he's a dwarf born of rape.  

[CJ McLannister]

1 minute ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

God, please no. If there was a number one theory I hated with a passion that burned in my soul, it would be that Tyrion is a Targaryen. He is not a Targaryen. Please don't make me argue about this on an unrelated post. I am so sick of Tyrion fanboys and fangirls. He ISN'T a Targaryen. I'll put money. Let's have a bet. I'll put 100 dollars down. Tyrion isn't a Targaryen. 

Oh, I hate it too.  I desperately want it to not be true because it ruins the entire Tyrion-Tywin storyline, but I can't argue that there's no evidence for it.  I was just throwing it out there to see how it might impact the way people see Tywin.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

Just now, CJ McLannister said:

Oh, I hate it too.  I desperately want it to not be true because it ruins the entire Tyrion-Tywin storyline, but I can't argue that there's no evidence for it.  I was just throwing it out there to see how it might impact the way people see Tywin.

Oh good. No it doesn't make any difference to me. I don't think Tywin would have treated Tyrion any different depending on that fact. He would have hated him no matter what.