Real Reason Rhaegar abducting Lyanna (Love, Hatred, Politics, Child, or Raegar is only a bad Person)

[yakisikli123]

What was the real reason Rhaegar abducting Lyanna, maybe he didnt kidnap her she went willingly and they were in love, or one sided love.

When Rhaegar kidnaps her, then that means he was in love with her.

Was Rhagers reason another like to have an another child, but why Lyanna then, there are plenty of girls.

That means maybe he wanted to start a war, but it should rather affect Arys and not him and the Starks as allies, because of Lyanna (marriage) would be a clever move.

That also means there was a one sided love (Lyanna loves him), but she was used. Rhaegar a bad person.

 

What are your thoughts

 

PS: English is not my first language

 

[Knight of the Hungry Cow]

I think Rhaegar wanted a kid mostly, but fell for Lyanna at the tournament when he saw how she acted. She was definitely different from most nobles, so he thought they could run off and everything would be jolly. 

Didn't really work out for him.

[MinotaurWarrior]

The only confirmed motive we have for Rhaegar doing anything is prophecy.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

We know of the prophecy for the prince that was promised and how Rhaegar was obsessed with it. We also know of proclaiming Lyanna his queen of love and beauty and naming the tower, tower of joy.

So, he kidnapped her for the sake of prophecy and because he loved or lusted over her. And he might have underestimated or not considered the consequences.

I highly doubt any shrewd political motivation of him trying to cause a civil war.

[Jon Fossoway]

I don't think Rhaegar was remotely in love with Lyanna. Maybe she was infatuated with him, though. But I doubt it. 

Rhaegar was a bookish dude to begin with and I'm sure he continued to be so during his life. He just added the 'knight' item because reasons. He was a bookish, melancholic dude who apparently wanted to fulfill a prophecy. If he was ever in love with someone, I am sure that someone was fragile, solemn and beautiful Elia Martell. For me, the tragicness of the story was not Rhaegar-Lyanna fate but Rhaegar-Elia deliberate separation, which ultimately ended in him being smashed in a frantic battle and her being brutally murdered in the capital. About Lyanna, she might just have been a pawn in Rhaegar's game. He maybe literally abducted her and raped her, and as time went by... Estocolm. 

 

[Greymoon]

7 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

The only confirmed motive we have for Rhaegar doing anything is prophecy.

Is it? We know he knew about a prophecy and we know he read "something in a book" at a young age that made him want to become a warrior. These are far from concrete evidences that he ever only did things for prophecy. (a one time act =/= general tendency). 

We have no evidence at all that he abducted Lyanna for prophecy. Even in Dany's HotU vision "there must be one more" is no concrete evidence. Rhaegar telling his wife that he desires a third child does not constitute any evidence that this is exactly the reason Rhaegar "abducted" Lyanna. For now, it remains a statement of fact that is indicative of Rhagear's desire to have more children, and that's it.

We can't even be certain that Rhaegar ever pronounced these words, because these vision in the HotU were controlled by the undying, and who knows what their intentions were? Do the undying present facts or do they present their own truths?

To claim that as a motive, or even the main motive behind the abduction is interpreting facts and extrapolating on a character we actually know little about. The WoIaF drops plenty of hints that Rhaegar was also a political figure capable of political schemes.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

There is another reason why Rhaegar abducted Lyanna excluding my favorite theory that he was doing Arthur Dayne a favor ( Arthur + Lyanna= Jon). Rhaegar was intelligent but very somber ,who lived his life out of books . He became a knight ,because he read it in a book, he thought he was either to be the PWWP or was going to father the PWWP from a book . Very recently the Pact of Ice and Fire was introduced into the ASOIAF canon The pact was that a Targaryen princess will marry the Stark. He read it in a half burned book and felt that was necessary to fulfill the pact since there was no young princess and Viserys was too young .

[Victarion Chainbreaker]

Rhaegar needed to marry Lyanna in the tradition of the Free Folk to fulfill prophecy.

I'm convinced that the abduction-by-marriage tradition was a originally how the First Men all got married, but now has been replaced everywhere except among the Free Folk and the Mountain Clans. I'm guessing that the original AA/TPtwP/Last Hero (whichever prophecy Rhaegar was trying to fulfill) was born of such a union, and Rhaegar was trying to recreate that situation.

[devilish]

I cant believe that Lyanna and Rhaegar fell in love with one another in just few days. I am more in prone to believe that

Rhaegar wanted to fulfill his prophecy and ended up star stuck by Lyanna's beauty and independence. 

Lyanna wanted a way out from marrying Robert (Prince's decision > Lord Paramount's decision )and saw in Rhaegar a gentle and sophisticated person as opposed to the simpletons she is used to mingle with.

Rhaegar underestimated the North's stupidity in preserving honour and Lyanna underestimated Aerys madness (no one knew Aerys was mad apart from his inner circle)

 

 

[OuttaOldtown]

On June 7, 2016 at 8:19 PM, MinotaurWarrior said:

The only confirmed motive we have for Rhaegar doing anything is prophecy.

This, imo...every other motivation is invented by the fans who ignore the strongest clues.. 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

Yet sometimes Dany would picture the way it had been, so often had her brother told her the stories. The midnight flight to Dragonstone, moonlight shimmering on the ship's black sails. Her brother Rhaegar battling the Usurper in the bloody waters of the Trident and dying for the woman he loved

From Dany's very first chapter

[MinotaurWarrior]

Viserys was 6 when the conflict broke out, and full of junk ever since. Even if Rhaegar's motives had been as base as Robert claimed, no doubt the prince's snotty little brother would frame it so. 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

Nobody but Robert and the Starks (excluding Ned) ever seem to claim Lyanna was taken against her will...

 

Better for Daenerys, and for Westeros. Daenerys Targaryen loved her captain, but that was the girl in her, not the queen. Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it. Daemon Blackfyre loved the first Daenerys, and rose in rebellion when denied her. Bittersteel and Bloodraven both loved Shiera Seastar, and the Seven Kingdoms bled. The Prince of Dragonflies loved Jenny of Oldstones so much he cast aside a crown, and Westeros paid the bride price in corpses. All three of the sons of the fifth Aegon had wed for love, in defiance of their father's wishes. And because that unlikely monarch had himself followed his heart when he chose his queen, he allowed his sons to have their way, making bitter enemies where he might have had fast friends. Treason and turmoil followed, as night follows day, ending at Summerhall in sorcery, fire, and grief.

 

Cersei could have given the prince the sons he wanted, lions with purple eyes and silver manes … and with such a wife, Rhaegar might never have looked twice at Lyanna Stark. The northern girl had a wild beauty, as he recalled, though however bright a torch might burn it could never match the rising sun.

 

Rhaegar had chosen Lyanna Stark of Winterfell. Barristan Selmy would have made a different choice.

[Princess of Dragonflies]

Was the Tower of Joy named before or after the abduction? I could've sworn that that was the name prior to any of the kidnapping/eloping/escape/stroll in the riverlands

[LiveFirstDieLater]

Just now, Princess of Dragonflies said:

Was the Tower of Joy named before or after the abduction? I could've sworn that that was the name prior to any of the kidnapping/eloping/escape/stroll in the riverlands

I don't think it is ever mentioned other than in respect to Rhaegar and Lyanna... So hard to say... It may have just been what Rhaegar called it

[purple-eyes]

i think all targ supporters will think this is a love story, including barri, dany and viserys. they loved rhaegar so that, of course in their mind,  rhaegar fell in beautiful love so he eloped with her due to passion. 

and all rebel supporters will think rhaegar is bad buy and kidnapped and raped her because this is their cause for the war. 

ned is kind of special because lyanna must have told him how she fell in love with rhaegar before her death. 

but GRRM will not make things so easy. 

i bet prophecy plays a large role there. that is rhaegar's main motivation. 

[MinotaurWarrior]

1 hour ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Nobody but Robert and the Starks (excluding Ned) ever seem to claim Lyanna was taken against her will...

 

Better for Daenerys, and for Westeros. Daenerys Targaryen loved her captain, but that was the girl in her, not the queen. Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it. Daemon Blackfyre loved the first Daenerys, and rose in rebellion when denied her. Bittersteel and Bloodraven both loved Shiera Seastar, and the Seven Kingdoms bled. The Prince of Dragonflies loved Jenny of Oldstones so much he cast aside a crown, and Westeros paid the bride price in corpses. All three of the sons of the fifth Aegon had wed for love, in defiance of their father's wishes. And because that unlikely monarch had himself followed his heart when he chose his queen, he allowed his sons to have their way, making bitter enemies where he might have had fast friends. Treason and turmoil followed, as night follows day, ending at Summerhall in sorcery, fire, and grief.

 

Cersei could have given the prince the sons he wanted, lions with purple eyes and silver manes … and with such a wife, Rhaegar might never have looked twice at Lyanna Stark. The northern girl had a wild beauty, as he recalled, though however bright a torch might burn it could never match the rising sun.

 

Rhaegar had chosen Lyanna Stark of Winterfell. Barristan Selmy would have made a different choice.

Only the Dany quote actually states that there was any love involved. Barristan states Rhaegar chose Lyanna (an objective fact). Cersei is less clear, but is mostly just stating the obvious fact that Rhaegar was drawn to Lyanna, with the implication being that it was because of some defect in Elia (e.g. Difficulty giving birth) that Cersei lacked.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

19 minutes ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

Only the Dany quote actually states that there was any love involved. Barristan states Rhaegar chose Lyanna (an objective fact). Cersei is less clear, but is mostly just stating the obvious fact that Rhaegar was drawn to Lyanna, with the implication being that it was because of some defect in Elia (e.g. Difficulty giving birth) that Cersei lacked.

Wait, I already posted two quotes that word for word say Rhaegar loved Lyanna...

Rhaegar naming Lyanna "Queen of Love and Beauty" is just icing on the cake. Or that his song made her cry, or winter roses...

Not to mention Rhaegar dying with a woman's name on his lips.

Its hard for me to believe you could read the series any other way... But I mean maybe most telling of all is Ned's thoughts/lack of malice towards Rhaegar.

 

[Kal-L]

9 hours ago, devilish said:

I cant believe that Lyanna and Rhaegar fell in love with one another in just few days. I am more in prone to believe that

Rhaegar wanted to fulfill his prophecy and ended up star stuck by Lyanna's beauty and independence. 

Lyanna wanted a way out from marrying Robert (Prince's decision > Lord Paramount's decision )and saw in Rhaegar a gentle and sophisticated person as opposed to the simpletons she is used to mingle with.

Rhaegar underestimated the North's stupidity in preserving honour and Lyanna underestimated Aerys madness (no one knew Aerys was mad apart from his inner circle)

 

 

Since when ? Especially since when a Prince has power to usurp a Lord father's right ?

Rhaegar overestimated himself and his power and at the end he paid for it at the Trident where he suffered an overwhelming defeat.

[purple-eyes]

1 hour ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Wait, I already posted two quotes that word for word say Rhaegar loved Lyanna...

Rhaegar naming Lyanna "Queen of Love and Beauty" is just icing on the cake. Or that his song made her cry, or winter roses...

Not to mention Rhaegar dying with a woman's name on his lips.

Its hard for me to believe you could read the series any other way... But I mean maybe most telling of all is Ned's thoughts/lack of malice towards Rhaegar.

 

i do not know what you are arguing here. 

when one man gave a pretty woman roses in public and also stole her from her family and future husband, people will automatically assume he desired her and/or loved her, right? 

that is common sense and that is what people thought. when you see a guy give roses to a girl, do not you feel: oh, this dude fell in love? 

GRRM is making us think in this way. but he kept the prophecy as his last card. he dropped a lot of hints about it. i am sure that at some point we will know rhaegar was mainly driven by prophecy to do what he did, not his personal desire. 

of course, he chose a woman he liked. otherwise he can just pick up any young woman to do this job. 

this is the evil part. he can have a baby with any woman in 7k. why must lyanna, bride of his cousin and a daughter of LP? because he is a selfish idiot who can not control his sexural desire.