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Did mance rayder fight the others?


np1234

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Iv been re-reading the series and something struck me that I did not notice the first time round. At the fist of the first men Mance Rayder says you cant fight the others and that he knows that better than anyone. Does anyone else think this means Mance has somehow fought the others and survived ? Craster also says Mance came to him when he was forming is arming but Craster refused him. There may have been something else going on here that Craster has kept secret. Craster is pretty much the only person we know had contact with the others ( directly or indirectly ) and lives. I was thinking Craster may have told Mance where to find the others, possibly what they want and why they have left him live. I know I am assuming that Mance went looking for the others like an idiot but I cant see him surviving a surprise attack so if he did survive a fight with them he must have fought them on his terms. This confrontation could have provided the realization that all the free folk are doomed unless they leave and thus begins his campaign to bring everyone together and move south. Back to the point, if Mance does have information about the others he is going the be vital to somehow beating them. Iv gotten the feeling everyone has forgotten about Mance when theorizing about the battle for the dawn.  

 

Anyone else agree that Mance is going to be one of the most important characters going forward? 

Or am I completely wrong ?

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Yes. He led the Free Folk in the campaign against the Others - and lost. Nor is he the only one, basically any group north of the Wall fought against the Others during the 3-4 years preceeding the books. All of them uniting under Mance's leadership to force a crossing of the Wall and running for it is the direct result of getting their asses handed to them.

That isn't connected to Craster though. Whatever is the deal with him, that's completely separate. And unknown to the Wildlings, as proven by Craster being alive until the mutiny at Craster's Keep.

 

Nor do I expect Mance to matter much anymore. He's a tertiary character, he got no additional information anymore and his role within the Wildlings has been coopted by Jon.

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4 minutes ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

Nor do I expect Mance to matter much anymore. He's a tertiary character, he got no additional information anymore and his role within the Wildlings has been coopted by Jon.

Iv always felt he is going to play a major role going forward. I think he will meet up with the wildings again but a large number of them will stay loyal to Jon but I cant see him coming into conflict with Jon. I dont believe hes a tertiary character, like Varys and littlefinger he has been moving pieces from the very start. Im among those who believe he wrote the pink letter and if he does find the horn or winter on the crypts he will be a major force to contend with. 

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4 minutes ago, Captain of the Guard said:

Yes, I do buy this theory, because why would Mance be compelled to unite the Wildlings and flee south behind the wall? His contact with Craster also suggests as much - Craster could have alluded to the Others and Mance may have went searching to discover the truth. 

This is a little more of a tinfoil idea but I also had a thought that Mance might have been the one to break the pact between the Others and men. He might have discovered about Crasters sacrifices and attacked the others first unknowingly breaking an ancient peace agreement. 

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In regards to Mance and Craster, I think Mance sought out Craster to learn about the Others and why Craster was safe from them. When Craster suggested Mance follow the same practice he does, with the sacrifices in exchange for safety(getting right with the gods he calls it), I think Mance decides against that and wants to fight them, but realising he can't beat them, he must flee them and seek refuge south of the wall with his folk.

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8 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

In regards to Mance and Craster, I think Mance sought out Craster to learn about the Others and why Craster was safe from them. When Craster suggested Mance follow the same practice he does, with the sacrifices in exchange for safety(getting right with the gods he calls it), I think Mance decides against that and wants to fight them, but realising he can't beat them, he must flee them and seek refuge south of the wall with his folk.

Nope.

 

That's easily disproven by Craster being a breathing human being instead of a notch on Mance's greatsword. Mance didn't know, or he'd have killed Craster.

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I don't see any reason to believe that the Mance crossed swords with an Other and lived. I took the expression you cited to mean, in context, that the Mance’s horde of Free Folk had been harried by Others and their wights. 

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4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I don't see any reason to believe that the Mance crossed swords with an Other and lived. I took the expression you cited to mean, in context, that the Mance’s horde of Free Folk had been harried by Others and their wights. 

I took it as he did cross swords but with whites not an Other. He says it while overlooking the destruction the whites did to the NW. Remember the Old Bear survived that attack and made it all the way to Crasters. Mance may well have experienced the same (probably would have beven fewer whites in the Others' army then too)

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18 hours ago, np1234 said:

This is a little more of a tinfoil idea but I also had a thought that Mance might have been the one to break the pact between the Others and men. He might have discovered about Crasters sacrifices and attacked the others first unknowingly breaking an ancient peace agreement. 

there was no pact with the others. If there was, humanity would remember it in the same way humanity remembers the even older pact with the CTOF 

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12 hours ago, AryaGonnaEatThatDeadFatGuy said:

I took it as he did cross swords but with whites not an Other. He says it while overlooking the destruction the whites did to the NW. Remember the Old Bear survived that attack and made it all the way to Crasters. Mance may well have experienced the same (probably would have beven fewer whites in the Others' army then too)

No doubt. I thought you were talking about Others. 

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I doubt he personally crossed swords with one, but it wouldn't surprise me if he led attacks on them and then retreats from them. He certainly hasn't killed one, otherwise the freefolk would never shut up about it. No doubt he's killed a bunch of wights though.

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On 8 June 2016 at 8:58 PM, Bright Blue Eyes said:

Nope.

 

That's easily disproven by Craster being a breathing human being instead of a notch on Mance's greatsword. Mance didn't know, or he'd have killed Craster.

What do you think Mance and Craster talked about, and what do you think Mance would have killed him for? 

Mance clearly went to quiz Craster on the Others. He may have even suspected Crasters activities with the Others. Certain brothers at Castle black did to but never killed him. 

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5 hours ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

Being an asshole allying himself with the enemy of humanity?

Nobody at Castle Black ever suspected Craster of doing that, mostly because nobody at Castle Black was ever aware of said enemies of humanity.

Every ranger at Castle black suspected Craster was sacrificing his sons to dark gods in the woods but never acted on it, probably because of a few factors- he kept rangers Alive with food and warmth on rangings, whatever he was up to kept the evil away from the wall, and also by not acting on it, it was probably easier to forget about it and avoid what was happening. But you can be sure the Rangers Mormont speaks of in his conversation with Jon, and Mormont himself, were aware Craster was offering his sons to something dark and not just leaving them out in the woods. 

Mance could easily have known what Craster was up to. He was a very capable Ranger himself not all that long ago either, and Crasters obviously been doing it for quite a while. So when you hear Mormont say all Rangers knew, I'd throw Mance in there also. 

Whos to say Mance just chose not to kill him. The books state Tormund urged him to but he never. The only Wildlings I've heard of Mance killing were the ones who fought him in opposition to him being King beyond the wall, maybe he refused to kill other free folk unless it was a him or them situation.

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10 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

What do you think Mance and Craster talked about, and what do you think Mance would have killed him for? 

Mance clearly went to quiz Craster on the Others. He may have even suspected Crasters activities with the Others. Certain brothers at Castle black did to but never killed him. 

How about the theory that Mance is Crasters living son? And that both were once men of the Night's Watch?

And I still wonder if Mance really did look for the Horn of Jorammun up in the North... And where, I mean what are these crypts they were looking in?

"Not for fear!" She kicked savagely at the ice beneath her with a heel, chopping out a chunk. "I'm crying because we never found the Horn of Winter. We opened half a hundred graves and let all those shades loose in the world, and never found the Horn of Joramun to bring this cold thing down!"

Who would know more about finding the Horn of Winter than the guy who sacrifices his own kids to the Gods of Winter

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3 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

How about the theory that Mance is Crasters living son? And that both were once men of the Night's Watch?

And I still wonder if Mance really did look for the Horn of Jorammun up in the North... And where, I mean what are these crypts they were looking in?

"Not for fear!" She kicked savagely at the ice beneath her with a heel, chopping out a chunk. "I'm crying because we never found the Horn of Winter. We opened half a hundred graves and let all those shades loose in the world, and never found the Horn of Joramun to bring this cold thing down!"

Who would know more about finding the Horn of Winter than the guy who sacrifices his own kids to the Gods of Winter

It's the only notable artifact any king of the wildlings was said to have, and since they were opening graves I can't imagine they just wanted to disrespect dead people for shits and giggles.

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3 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

It's the only notable artifact any king of the wildlings was said to have, and since they were opening graves I can't imagine they just wanted to disrespect dead people for shits and giggles.

Sorry I should have phrased it better, I wonder if he was really banking on finding it or if it was part of his wildling unification strategy...

 

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Just now, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Sorry I should have phrased it better, I wonder if he was really banking on finding it or if it was part of his wildling unification strategy...

 

Ah that makes sense.  Thinking about it tho, Tormund says they found the giant horn they fake as the horn of Joramun in a giants grave, so it seems like horns are something that get buried with important people.  It would also be a decent way to keep the horn from being used if it actually does bring the wall down.  I personally believe Sam has a horn, kind of like how the holy grail in Indiana jones was the simple wooden one.

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9 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Ah that makes sense.  Thinking about it tho, Tormund says they found the giant horn they fake as the horn of Joramun in a giants grave, so it seems like horns are something that get buried with important people.  It would also be a decent way to keep the horn from being used if it actually does bring the wall down.  I personally believe Sam has a horn, kind of like how the holy grail in Indiana jones was the simple wooden one.

I think at this point if anyone has it, that is the most likely bet...

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