How would you rate the Stark family in order of intelligence?

[Tijgy]

3 hours ago, John Doe said:

She only manipulated Joffry once and that wasn't to her gain or to ensure her survival. 

Even then she was able to trick Tyrion into believing she was just praying into the woods so she was able to escape. 

[Meera of Tarth]

I think it's not fair to rate them in order of intelligence, because Rickon is more than 10 years younger than Robb and Jon, so we don't know how they were at Rickon's age or viceversa.

Apart from that, there are different types of intelligence, for instance...who is more intelligent: Maester Aemon or Arya? There are different types of intelligence, practical, analytical, military skills, common sense, survival skills, emotional.....

[MinotaurWarrior]

25 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Even then she was able to trick Tyrion into believing she was just praying into the woods so she was able to escape. 

But that wasn't her plan. 

Without a doubt, Sansa is the Stark with the best self-control. Every other Stark would have died in her situation, but it's not because they wouldn't have figured out what to say (Sansa's actually fairly slow to come up with proper responses), it's because they wouldn't have been able to stop themselves from blurting out the wrong thing. We actually see this fairly directly with Arya and Jon while both of them are surrounded by the enemy. Jon can't even pretend to think Ygritte's too ugly to bed, or otherwise be inconspicuously chaste, and it quite nearly kills him. Arya backtalks to Roose Bolton. Sansa, on the other hand, never publicly breaks from the lie of adoring Joffrey and being fine with Tyrion. However, Arya and Jon both figure out their own plans to get out of their situation. Sansa never does that.

[tugela]

13 hours ago, Sabhayata said:

That seems unfair. Once Blackfish tells him how the whole siege of Riverrunn is happening he comes up with a great idea  to win his first battle as can be seem from his conversation with Catelyn. He doesn't seem like some one who didn't know what he was doing. He definitely had good plaNS in place. And after the Lannisters killed his father he had no choice but to rebel,

He was 15, had never been in combat, and had never left Winterfell. I'm pretty sure he didn't know what he was doing.

[Lord Lannister]

I would point out that there is a difference between intelligence and wisdom that seems to be widely overlooked in this speculative conversation.

[Darksnider05]

12 hours ago, MinotaurWarrior said:

But that wasn't her plan. 

Without a doubt, Sansa is the Stark with the best self-control. Every other Stark would have died in her situation, but it's not because they wouldn't have figured out what to say (Sansa's actually fairly slow to come up with proper responses), it's because they wouldn't have been able to stop themselves from blurting out the wrong thing. We actually see this fairly directly with Arya and Jon while both of them are surrounded by the enemy. Jon can't even pretend to think Ygritte's too ugly to bed, or otherwise be inconspicuously chaste, and it quite nearly kills him. Arya backtalks to Roose Bolton. Sansa, on the other hand, never publicly breaks from the lie of adoring Joffrey and being fine with Tyrion. However, Arya and Jon both figure out their own plans to get out of their situation. Sansa never does that.

 

Without a doubt every other Stark would of survived as a valuable hostage.  But you keep blowing smoke about Sansa's amazing feats of self control many many beatings later she blurts out her offer of marriage to her enemies from the Tyrells.  No one in KL believed Sansa for a moment when she spoke about her family.  They just called her an idiot or X insult and moved on.  Staying silent and making yourself as small as possible a target is a feat but it's not an amazing one.

Hell Sansa did the exact same thing when she was brought forward against Joff over Mycha. 

[Little Scribe of Naath]

1. Arya (she beats everyone by a longshot, uncannily resourceful,crafty,perceptive and clever for her age)

2. Jon (has an ability to really see the big picture,think outside the status quo,is honorable but not stupidly so)

3. Bran/Sansa (Bran shows superb potential for his age but has not really had an opportunity to show it, same for Sansa after AFFC)

4. Robb (May have been a prodigy on the battlefield, but he was trained for it his whole life, by Ned and let's not forget, the Blackfish. Like his father, makes the honorable but completely impractical decisions, which cannot be excused as he had a responsibility over thousands, being a king)

Can't include Rickon as he is too young.

[Sabhayata]

On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 4:45 AM, tugela said:

He was 15, had never been in combat, and had never left Winterfell. I'm pretty sure he didn't know what he was doing.

In this series 15 years is nothing, Other characters have achieved greator things. Dany was about this age only when she married a Dothraki and hatched her dragon eggs? Jon was also around this age when he was declared lord commander? Arya also at young age has already killed people?. So his being 15 years means  nothing. I am purely going by the text in which he comes up with a strategy to lift the siege of riveruun so yes he does know what he is doing

[Knight of Onions]

37 minutes ago, Sabhayata said:

In this series 15 years is nothing, Other characters have achieved greator things. Dany was about this age only when she married a Dothraki and hatched her dragon eggs? Jon was also around this age when he was declared lord commander? Arya also at young age has already killed people?. So his being 15 years means  nothing. I am purely going by the text in which he comes up with a strategy to lift the siege of riveruun so yes he does know what he is doing

Indeed. While the amount of responsibility put on the shoulders of such young people is even by medieval standards very high as their parents and grandparents are so busy killing each other off, fifteen year old Jon and Robb would have been considered young adults in medieval times.

[Little Bird of the North]

I'll just go for the kids, since involving Ned and Cat would not be fair and it would depend on the type of "intelligence" we are discussing. My list is purely subjective and since intelligence is such a wide spectrum it was really hard to do this, impossible really, but I tried.

 

1. Jon. I mean, his experiences would make anyone intelligent. He has learnt to lead, to read people, to interact with people. He is just extremely good at a lot of things, the way he handles Stannis I quite admire.

2. Sansa. She has been extremely dumb (in a way) by trusting absolutely everyone she comes across and believing everything will turn out for the best, but honestly, what else would keep her from killing herself (I say that with seriousness). Since her troubles in King's Landing she has developed so, so, so much (I absolutely love her, words cannot describe) and Littlefinger has clearly had an effect on her. She can read people and situations well and knows how to navigate through dangerous situations (which we have seen as early as ACOK)

3. Bran. He is significantly younger than the rest of them so we can't judge fairly but he is certainly not dumb. He clearly knows the North well, his knowledge of it has helped him and his companions on their travels numerous times. I also get the impression that he is quite book smart - he spent a lot of time with Maester Luwin and he has displayed high levels of knowledge.

4. Arya. Not book smart but extremely resourceful and contains good critical thinking skills. Far too impulsive and short sighted, and often cannot see the consequences of her actions but cannot be blamed for she is a child, not even twelve yet.

5. Robb. Good at fighting, bad at the game. Don't get me wrong, I was sad when he died (I saw more sad at Catelyn and her reaction/breakdown). If he had followed his Mother's advice at least half the time, Grey Wind's head would not be sewed onto his body right now. 

Can't rate Rickon for obvious reasons. 

 

 

 

[The Holy Goat]

Depends on how you determine intelligence. It's also very difficult to compare older characters to younger ones. The first three are the ones I'd consider "clearly quite intelligent", but in different ways.

1, Arya. She is a very quick study, versatile, creative and more cunning than any of her siblings - signs of fairly high intelligence to me. She isn't very wise though, and while part of that can be ascribed to her youth, I simply don't think it's in her nature to sit down and think things through. To hot-blooded for that.

2, Jon. Clearly very intelligent and observant, often more so than older men. While he hasn't been given the opportunity to increase her knowledge the same way Arya has through the Faceless Men, he consistenyl show himself to posses a more rational and level head on his shoulders.

3, Bran. This fella seem to be very knowledgable for his age, and has suprisingly good judgement for someone so young. He doesn't possess the creative cunning of Arya, nor the level-headed decision-making of Jon, but he seem very clever anyway... in a bookworm kind of way. Fitting that he is the one with the greatest access to information.

The rest of that Starks are of average intelligence or slightly above. There is not a single one of them who could be considered actually stupid.

4, Robb. He was clearly a genius commander with a great grasp of tactics, and he wasn't en utter fool in how politics worked (though he tended to approach those situations as a battlefield as well). He was foolish to believe that honor and justice would do the trick in his situation however.

5, Sansa. She isn't as booksh or knowledgable as the other kids, sometimes a bit slower on the uptake, and clearly more foolish in her decision-making - but she has grown more and more observant with each book, and her Emotional Intelligence is greatest amongst all the Starks. She understands people in ways her siblings don't.

6, Eddard. People like to call Ned a fool, but the truth is that the game was rigged against him from the beginning. He exelled in straightforward military matters and just and honest ruling, not in deceptive politics. His biggest intellectual flaw was that he couldn't concive that others would have as few moral qualms as Littlefinger and the Lannisters did.

7, Benjen. Seems intelligent enough, but we don't really know much about his inteligence. Doesn't stand out either way.

 

 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

What kind of intelligence? 

[Rondo]

 

   Intelligence Ranking of the Stark family 

 

1. Bran
2. Arya
3. Torrhen (the king who knelt)
4. Robb
5. Summer
6. Nymeria
7. Shaggydog
8. Benjen
9. Eddard
10. Lyanna (Ed's sister)
11. Jon
12. Sansa
13. Brandon (Eddard's older bro)

[Roswell]

1. Arya - Evil, but smart.  Smart enough to plan the murder of the old man at the diner in Braavos.
2. Catelyn - Politically savvy.  Negotiated the deal to get the northmen through the twin castles of the Freys.
3. Robb - Talented battle commander.  Outsmarted Jaime Lannister in battle.
4. Ned
5. Benjen
6. Greywind - Assuming D/W intelligence is on par with real wolves
7. Sansa
8. Lyanna - Broke her engagement and triggered a war.
9. Jon - Knows nothing.  Betrayed the Night Watch for his sister.
10. Brandon - Rode to King's Landing and threatened to kill Prince Rhaegar. 

[a black swan]

On 27/06/2016 at 7:02 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

What kind of intelligence? 

Good question.

Emotional intelligence has been so lacking with House Stark and has been the reason for so much of their downfalls. 

Even at a very young age, Arya saw Cersei for what she was, even before the incident with Nymeria/Joffrey. 

Arya has learned how to lie convincingly:

Her face was still water, hiding all, revealing nothing. - ADWD

And also how to tell a lie from the truth:

It all became much easier. She learned to hear the lies, to feel them in the play of the muscles around the mouth and eyes. - ADWD

And how to differentiate what is real and what is perceived. How to collect information and how to assume a facade. These are things that require a high level of emotional intelligence and life experience. 

Even before her time in Braavos, moments like these make Arya such a strength to her House. Trusting the wrong people always brought trouble to her family. 

Arya and trust:

When she saw the guardsmen on the third pier, in grey woolen cloaks trimmed with white satin, her heart almost stopped in her chest. The sight of Winterfell’s colors brought tears to her eyes. ... She grabbed a passing longshoreman by the sleeve. “Please,” she said, “what ship is this?”

“She’s the Wind Witch, out of Myr,” the man said.

“She’s still here,” Arya blurted. The longshoreman gave her a queer look, shrugged, and walked away. Arya ran toward the pier. The Wind Witch was the ship Father had hired to take her home… still waiting! She’d imagined it had sailed ages ago.

Two of the guardsmen were dicing together while the third walked rounds, his hand on the pommel of his sword. Ashamed to let them see her crying like a baby, she stopped to rub at her eyes. Her eyes her eyes her eyes, why did…

Look with your eyes, she heard Syrio whisper.

Arya looked. She knew all of her father’s men. The three in the grey cloaks were strangers. “You,” the one walking rounds called out. “What do you want here, boy?” The other two looked up from their dice.

It was all Arya could do not to bolt and run, but she knew that if she did, they would be after her at once. She made herself walk closer. They were looking for a girl, but he thought she was a boy. She’d be a boy, then. “Want to buy a pigeon?” She showed him the dead bird. - Arya, AGoT

----

The thought of hot food made Arya’s belly rumble, but she didn’t trust this Tom. Not everyone who spoke to you friendly was really your friend. -  Arya, ASoS

 

Being exposed to the world and connecting with all kinds of people is not easy. Despite being isolated in the North - it takes a level of humbleness that most highborn people lack but would be a great asset as a Leader. 

Squires and grooms and serving girls, old men and naked children, rough-spoken freeriders of uncertain birth. Arya would make friends with anybody. -  Sansa, AGoT

Cat had made friends along the wharves; porters and mummers, ropemakers and sailmenders, taverners, brewers and bakers and beggars and whores. - Arya, AFFC

 

On 27/06/2016 at 0:44 PM, Arya, Queen of the North said:

4. Arya. Not book smart but extremely resourceful and contains good critical thinking skills. Far too impulsive and short sighted, and often cannot see the consequences of her actions but cannot be blamed for she is a child, not even twelve yet.

If you only read the first book - sure I'd see your point. Yet we see Arya say and do things like this later on in her story arc.

A broken lip taught Arya to hold her tongue. Others never learned at all. One boy of three would not stop calling for his father, so they smashed his face in with a spiked mace. Then the boy’s mother started screaming and Raff the Sweetling killed her as well.

Arya watched them die and did nothing. What good did it do you to be brave?  - Arya, ACoK

---

“Poor child,” said the kindly man. “Would you like to have your eyes back? Ask, and you shall see.”

He asked the same question every morning. “I may want them on the morrow. Not today.” Her face was still water, hiding all, revealing nothing. - Arya, ADWD

 

She reflects back on things she learned while in KL/Harrenhal in her Braavos chapters:

“When you are not pouring, you must stand as still as if you had been carved of stone,” the kindly man told her. “Can you do that?”

“Yes.” Before you can learn to move you must learn to be still, Syrio Forel had taught her long ago at King’s Landing, and she had. She had served as Roose Bolton’s cupbearer at Harrenhal, and he would flay you if you spilled his wine. - Arya, AFFC

 

While Blind, alone in her personal isolation, Arya notices the Kindly Man from just his scent:

Someone had entered the room behind her, moving on soft padded slippers quiet as a mouse. Her nostrils flared. The kindly man. Men had a different smell than women, and there was a hint of orange in the air as well. The priest was fond of chewing orange rinds to sweeten his breath, whenever he could get them. - Arya I, ADWD 

 

 

[Eugs]

If we're judging based on what we can decipher in book about the characters' cognitive potential the Stark kids are all pretty remarkable.

1.Bran: Very young but already a brilliant greenseer with a breath and depth of knowledge and insight that may put him amongst the very smartest in Westeros.  He's turning into the Westerosi equivalent of Stephen Hawking, channeling his mind deeper and deeper into solving some of humanity's biggest, most critical problems while trapped in a body that leaves him physically helpless.

2.Arya: Very cunning and resourceful at such a young age.  She has by far the most street smarts of any Stark, adapting to some of the harshest situations an orphaned little girl could go through.   Her emotional intelligence allows her to read people well enough to act like a chess player seeing several moves in advance when adapting to each life threatening interaction she faces.  Her approach to problem solving is constantly evolving to her environment, allowing her to avoid getting stuck emotionally or physically while facing down wave after wave of tragedy and abuse.  Unfortunately as she has learned to become emotionally detached from the horrors of her environment she has also grown psychopathic, losing her empathy while being driven more and more by pure hatred and bloodlust.

3.Jon: Mature way beyond his years and has far more wisdom than the majority of adults he interacts with.  Sees the big picture and is already instilling a very progressive agenda for social change as perhaps the youngest Lord Commander in the history of the Night's Watch. Like Arya he is extremely resourceful and adaptable to incredibly harsh circumstances that would completely overwhelm any normal person.  Unlike Arya he can be a little obtuse and naive in his thought process, making critical missteps because he develops tunnel vision, or assumes that others have the ability to perceive things the way he does.

4.Robb: This was almost a toss up between Sansa and Robb, but Robb takes the spot because he's simply making decisions and winning on the battlefield in a manner which is unprecedented for somebody his age.  His critical thinking skills and ability to make sound decisions while carrying such enormous responsibility as commander in chief of the northern armies is doubly impressive given his success in outwitting and out strategizing some of the oldest and most seasoned military minds in Westeros.  Unfortunately like his father, he has trouble reading the tea leaves when it comes to dealing with people on a more personal level, completely botching an arranged marriage, choosing Northern honor over common sense when executing the head of an important house for insubordination, and failing to differentiate between his real allies and those who are looking to usurp him.

5.Sansa: Sansa is a lot smarter than she seems on the surface.  While she begins the story living in a fantasyland dreaming of being a princess, blissfully unaware of the harsh truths all around her, by the fifth book she has graduated from blindsided naif to battle hardened realist.  When we last leave her, she's deftly hiding her true identity while working the room of seasoned political players in the Vale, using her interactions with them to parse out how their motivations align with hers.  She's evolving from Little Finger's frightened little pawn into her own nascent master at manipulation and deception.

6.Ned: Ned is Robb version 1.0.  He's smart, dependable, a great military tactician, and one of the few decent and honorable nobles in Westeros.  For all these reasons people in the North really look up to him as their leader.  Unfortunately, like Robb, he lacks the insight to differentiate friends from enemies or to adapt to his environment when the players are no longer friendly and don't fight honorably.  He's not astute enough to be aware of what others around him are plotting and doesn't weigh all the possible outcomes when acting on what he perceives to be the correct course of action.  He's a poor judge of character, often assuming that the others in the room automatically adhere to his moral code seeing things in the same way he does.  He also doesn't make any real effort to get on a level with the political actors around him to better relate to or understand what motivates their actions.  By being aloof he cultivates a perception of having a holier than thou attitude, or of being a simpleton who can only see things in very defined black and white terms.  In King's Landing, his adversaries perceive Ned and his "honor" as an immediate threat, and don't waste any time plotting his ouster.  Because he telegraphs all of his political maneuvers with such uncalculated transparency, they have little trouble framing him and removing him from the board completely.

?Rickon: Too young to properly judge against the others, but nothing in story sticks out as remarkable beyond his wild, and unruly nature.

[Little Bird of the North]

4 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Good question.

Emotional intelligence has been so lacking with House Stark and has been the reason for so much of their downfalls. 

Even at very young age, Arya saw Cersei for what she was, even before the incident with Nymeria/Joffrey. 

Arya has learned how to lie convincingly:

Her face was still water, hiding all, revealing nothing. - ADWD

And also how to tell a lie from the truth:

It all became much easier. She learned to hear the lies, to feel them in the play of the muscles around the mouth and eyes. - ADWD

And how to differentiate what is real and what is perceived. How to collect information and how to assume a facade. These are things that require a high level of emotional intelligence and life experience. 

Even before her time in Braavos, moments like these make Arya such a strength to her House. Trusting the wrong people always brought troube to her family. 

Arya and trust:

When she saw the guardsmen on the third pier, in grey woolen cloaks trimmed with white satin, her heart almost stopped in her chest. The sight of Winterfell’s colors brought tears to her eyes. ... She grabbed a passing longshoreman by the sleeve. “Please,” she said, “what ship is this?”

“She’s the Wind Witch, out of Myr,” the man said.

“She’s still here,” Arya blurted. The longshoreman gave her a queer look, shrugged, and walked away. Arya ran toward the pier. The Wind Witch was the ship Father had hired to take her home… still waiting! She’d imagined it had sailed ages ago.

Two of the guardsmen were dicing together while the third walked rounds, his hand on the pommel of his sword. Ashamed to let them see her crying like a baby, she stopped to rub at her eyes. Her eyes her eyes her eyes, why did…

Look with your eyes, she heard Syrio whisper.

Arya looked. She knew all of her father’s men. The three in the grey cloaks were strangers. “You,” the one walking rounds called out. “What do you want here, boy?” The other two looked up from their dice.

It was all Arya could do not to bolt and run, but she knew that if she did, they would be after her at once. She made herself walk closer. They were looking for a girl, but he thought she was a boy. She’d be a boy, then. “Want to buy a pigeon?” She showed him the dead bird. - Arya, AGoT

----

The thought of hot food made Arya’s belly rumble, but she didn’t trust this Tom. Not everyone who spoke to you friendly was really your friend. -  Arya, ASoS

 

Being exposed to the world and connecting with all kinds of people is not easy. Despite being isolated in the North - it takes a level of humbleness that most highborn people lack but would be a great asset as a Leader. 

Squires and grooms and serving girls, old men and naked children, rough-spoken freeriders of uncertain birth. Arya would make friends with anybody. -  Sansa, AGoT

Cat had made friends along the wharves; porters and mummers, ropemakers and sailmenders, taverners, brewers and bakers and beggars and whores. - Arya, AFFC

 

If you only read the first book - sure I'd see your point. Yet we see Arya say and do things like this later on in her story arc.

A broken lip taught Arya to hold her tongue. Others never learned at all. One boy of three would not stop calling for his father, so they smashed his face in with a spiked mace. Then the boy’s mother started screaming and Raff the Sweetling killed her as well.

Arya watched them die and did nothing. What good did it do you to be brave?  - Arya, ACoK

---

“Poor child,” said the kindly man. “Would you like to have your eyes back? Ask, and you shall see.”

He asked the same question every morning. “I may want them on the morrow. Not today.” Her face was still water, hiding all, revealing nothing. - Arya, ADWD

 

She reflects back on things she learned while in KL/Harrenhal in her Braavos chapters:

“When you are not pouring, you must stand as still as if you had been carved of stone,” the kindly man told her. “Can you do that?”

“Yes.” Before you can learn to move you must learn to be still, Syrio Forel had taught her long ago at King’s Landing, and she had. She had served as Roose Bolton’s cupbearer at Harrenhal, and he would flay you if you spilled his wine. - Arya, AFFC

 

While Blind, alone in her personal isolation, Arya notices the Kindly Man from just his scent:

Someone had entered the room behind her, moving on soft padded slippers quiet as a mouse. Her nostrils flared. The kindly man. Men had a different smell than women, and there was a hint of orange in the air as well. The priest was fond of chewing orange rinds to sweeten his breath, whenever he could get them. - Arya I, ADWD 

 

 

 

I know Arya is extremely intelligent, but my point will stands. Her WOW chapter proves she still has trouble making the right decisions. What I mean by "book smart" is just assumptions. I assumed Arya was never good at the whole book, logic stuff because it didn't seem like her. When it comes to things like instinct and learning how to survive and adapt, she's incredibly smart. Know that I think about it I should have ranked her higher. It's just intelligence is such a broad spectrum and all of the kids are intelligent in different ways, it's impossible to rank them really.

[Darksnider05]

52 minutes ago, Arya, Queen of the North said:

 

I know Arya is extremely intelligent, but my point will stands. Her WOW chapter proves she still has trouble making the right decisions. What I mean by "book smart" is just assumptions. I assumed Arya was never good at the whole book, logic stuff because it didn't seem like her. When it comes to things like instinct and learning how to survive and adapt, she's incredibly smart. Know that I think about it I should have ranked her higher. It's just intelligence is such a broad spectrum and all of the kids are intelligent in different ways, it's impossible to rank them really.

Arya is good at the book Logic stuff she's fine at the practical parts of being a Lady.  Not so at the show parts so much.  Sansa knows her sigils better then Arya while Arya was more into history and could actually run a house hold.

[Little Bird of the North]

8 minutes ago, Darksnider05 said:

Arya is good at the book Logic stuff she's fine at the practical parts of being a Lady.  Not so at the show parts so much.  Sansa knows her sigils better then Arya while Arya was more into history and could actually run a house hold.

I don't really remember these little details so forgive me please. I've spent so long reading these things that I forget details that have been mentioned in earlier novels

[YorEmixam]

On 25/06/2016 at 9:43 AM, Tijgy said:

Even then she was able to trick Tyrion into believing she was just praying into the woods so she was able to escape. 

Best liar, most intelligent, IGN 10/10...