The mystery beyond the bones

[LordImp]

TWOIAF revealed that there are many mysteries beyond the bone mountains .

 

- First of all we have Asshai and the Shadowlands who are shrouded in darkness and mystery . All kind of sorcerers are welcome in Asshai all from whorshippers of the pale child to alchemists and torturists. The most notorious of the Asshai sorcerers are the shadowbinders . Then beyond the Asshai wee have an even more mysterious place: The Shadowlands where dragons , demons and worse can be found . And we have the corpse city of Stygai where even shadowbinders fear to tread. What is it in Stygai that everyone fears ? What are these rumored demons? 

- We also have the city of winged men and Carcosa where a Sorcerer King rules. 

- In the Grey waste we can find barbars and cannibals. And the Lizard men Shrykes also dwell there. K'Dath is said to be the oldest city in the world and even the Shrykes fears the place because of the mad gods whorshipped there.

 

- In Mossovy we finds shapeshifters and demon hunters . It's very similar to the woods beyond the Wall and shapeshifters may bee something very similar to wargs .

- the ancient city of Lyber acolytes of the serrpent god fights against the acolytes of the Spider Godess . A reference to the conflict between ice and fire? 

- The great empire of Dawn . According to Yi Ti tales the long night was caused by the blood betrayal when the Bloodstone Emperor usurped his sister the Amethyst empress . 

- Then we have Leng where the old ones dwell beneath the Island and demands blood sacrifices . 

 

So what to say about all this mysteries ? Most of it wont have anything importance to the story and are just world building but still fun to discuss . 

[TheSovereignGrave]

I think a fair number of them are simply reality being twisted and warped by distances, mostly in the far far Eastern sections. I think the lands beyond the Five Forts are likely more similar to Beyond the Wall, in that they're primarily inhabited by regular old tribal humans (though I do think the Grey Waste is home to Essosi White Walkers).

[LordImp]

18 minutes ago, TheSovereignGrave said:

I think a fair number of them are simply reality being twisted and warped by distances, mostly in the far far Eastern sections. I think the lands beyond the Five Forts are likely more similar to Beyond the Wall, in that they're primarily inhabited by regular old tribal humans (though I do think the Grey Waste is home to Essosi White Walkers).

Agree. The shapeshifters in Mossovy are most likely wargs. Though im not sure abot white walkers in the Grey waste. Do you think they are the same WW as in Westeros or a new kind who manifstes only in Essos? 

I think K'Dath might be where the old ones originate . 

[TheSovereignGrave]

I think the Essosi White Walkers are likely the same as the ones in Westeros (unless the info in the show is canon in the books too, then I'd be forced to rethink my position). Plus, you have the "Cities of Bloodless Men", which sounds like wights to me.

If the Old Ones actually exist, then I think they're probably native to Leng itself. Not all 'mad/dark gods' have to be the same thing, and Leng and K'Dath are rather far removed. Oh, and I don't think the Old Ones actually demand blood sacrifices anymore. The YiTish Emperor who conquered Leng sealed up all the ruins they supposedly dwelled in, and we're never told that either Khiara the Great or her descendants ever reopened the ruins.

[LordImp]

I have been thinking that the old ones are the same as the ancient Asshai'I and that they are on the brink of extinction if not all extinct . If so the old ones might have retreated to Leng just as the Childrens retreated beyond the Wall. Of course this is just my wishful thinking . 

 

[Jon Fossoway]

Further east fascinates me just as the First Men cultures does, because it leaves a lot to interpretation.

Methinks that Stygai is the place where shadowbinders draw their power from. Shadowbinders are slaves to whoever dwell there, that's why they are so afraid of going into the city. Just as afraid as a slave at the mercy of his/her master. When Bran saw dragons flying in the east I think he saw directly into Stygai, the heart of the shadow.

Bonetown sounds strange. At first I thought it was a deep crack in the earth full of giants and/or dragon bones. Something must have happened there. Maybe the city was built atop of a giant barrow, as in westerosi's Great Barrow. And that was I concluded: Bonetown feeds upon a giant burial place, where dragons where buried. Given the text says the town may be built on the bones, I think they actually worship those things, not trade them. That region, along with the cannibal sands and the Grey Waste, sounds like a very peculiar Mad Max scenario, full of marauders, mutated humans, small cults and such. Rattleshirt comes to mind. He's a unique character who dresses in bones. Can't recall why though. 

I pointed out in another thread that Yi Ti may NOT be an unified, but neither a struggling empire. May be comprised of city states ruled by various leaders, the text names tax-collectors, imperial generals, sorceror-kings (!). And that the god-emperor only rules inside his own walls. To me, Yi Ti's capital is a huge palace-city where the court dwells and feeds on prestige but it has no power over all the continent.

[Free Northman Reborn]

I would love a weirwood vision from say 12000 years a go, that shows Bran a glimpse of the world as it looked then, just as the First Men started their migration to Westeros. A bit more information on the powerful nations of the time - all the way to the Bone Mountains and beyond.

Similar to his vision when he saw Catelyn and Ser Rodrik sailing on the Narrow Sea and dragons stirring in Asshai.

[LordImp]

12 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

Further east fascinates me just as the First Men cultures does, because it leaves a lot to interpretation.

Methinks that Stygai is the place where shadowbinders draw their power from. Shadowbinders are slaves to whoever dwell there, that's why they are so afraid of going into the city. Just as afraid as a slave at the mercy of his/her master. When Bran saw dragons flying in the east I think he saw directly into Stygai, the heart of the shadow.

Bonetown sounds strange. At first I thought it was a deep crack in the earth full of giants and/or dragon bones. Something must have happened there. Maybe the city was built atop of a giant barrow, as in westerosi's Great Barrow. And that was I concluded: Bonetown feeds upon a giant burial place, where dragons where buried. Given the text says the town may be built on the bones, I think they actually worship those things, not trade them. That region, along with the cannibal sands and the Grey Waste, sounds like a very peculiar Mad Max scenario, full of marauders, mutated humans, small cults and such. Rattleshirt comes to mind. He's a unique character who dresses in bones. Can't recall why though. 

I pointed out in another thread that Yi Ti may NOT be an unified, but neither a struggling empire. May be comprised of city states ruled by various leaders, the text names tax-collectors, imperial generals, sorceror-kings (!). And that the god-emperor only rules inside his own walls. To me, Yi Ti's capital is a huge palace-city where the court dwells and feeds on prestige but it has no power over all the continent.

Great toughts! Especially the stuff about Stygai very much like my own thinking . Could the shadowbinders Masters be the demons rumored to live in the shadow ? 

[Orphalesion]

I think it's very sensible to think that due to distance and perilous travel the Westerosi have, in some cases a warped picture of the cultures, after all it happened in real life (the Greeks thinking that there were tribes of dog-headed people in India is just one example of many)

Personally I've always doubted that the winged men actually have wings, I find it more probable that they might just wear feathered cloaks. Likewise I think Asshai is said to have "no children" because they are kept indoors, away from the toxic air, and away from the eyes of travelers.

Then again, would lizard-like men really be that  different form say, the bridled men we hear of in Danerys' chapters? Though I also like the idea of them dressing in reptilian hides and using claws and teeth as weapons.

The city of the mad gods would be a joy to visit...I figure Asshai, Stygai and it might give up a pretty Vancian vibe if we were ever to visit it.

And personally I'd also find it interesting what legends the people in the east might tell of Westeros? Do they believe the continent is populated by wolf- and lionmen? Or that the seven kingdoms are ruled by a talking stag?

[TheSovereignGrave]

10 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

And personally I'd also find it interesting what legends the people in the east might tell of Westeros? Do they believe the continent is populated by wolf- and lionmen? Or that the seven kingdoms are ruled by a talking stag?

If I remember correctly there was a mention somewhere of people in the far East believing part of Westeros was ruled over by a Golden Lion King. But I may be misremembering.

[LordImp]

I think winged men might have been some early dragonriders. People just didnt understand what they saw so it became winged men . Just like people belived in centaurs , but it was actually just people riding horses. 

[TheSovereignGrave]

1 minute ago, LordImp said:

I think winged men might have been some early dragonriders. People just didnt understand what they saw so it became winged men . Just like people belived in centaurs , but it was actually just people riding horses. 

I don't think so; the centaur comparison isn't apt I don't think because of the sizes involved. You see a man riding a horse you can easily see the man part there. Dragons, on the other hand, are too large for someone to see a person riding a dragon and think "that's a dude with wings".

[LordImp]

Wonder if the ancient Asshai 'i could be fire/ Shadow version of the COTF and that they still dwell in the Shadowlands just as the COTF dwell North of the Wall. Could they be the ones responsible for the Shadow? 

[Shireen Purratheon]

It's too bad we didn't have a firsthand account from a maester who spent some time in Qarth or something. Then we'd have a much closer source to the rumor mill. It'd be interesting to see how different the stories are there, than the stories Yandel hears on the other side of the world in Oldtown.

[LordImp]

Hopefully Mel , Marwyn or quathie can give us some more info about Asshai. 

[The Sword of the Evening]

Most of it is just world building which GRRM absolutely loves. He is creating a world with alot of mystery, especially around the fringes, with the "Here there be Dragons" mantra.

That said, I believe there will be bits and pieces that effect the story. For instance the Five Forts are extremely similiar to the Wall. It may be that during the Long Night the Others not only attacked Westeros but also Essos.

There are lots of good theories about who the rest of the world affects the story. I recommend reading Lucifer means Lightbringer's essays on the gemstone emperors/Great Empire of the Dawn and other similar theories regarding the history of planetos.

[jandslegate]

Leng is most likely simply another nod to H.P. Lovecraft. https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=H.P. Lovecraft%2BLeng&oq=H.P. Lovecraft%2BLeng&aqs=chrome..69i57.7871j0j7

[Orphalesion]

8 hours ago, The Sword of the Evening said:

 I recommend reading Lucifer means Lightbringer's essays on the gemstone emperors/Great Empire of the Dawn and other similar theories regarding the history of planetos.

And I recommend taking those "theories" with a whole shaker full of salt. They are very creative and well phrased but I do not think they are factual in relation to the World of Ice and Fire.

[lujo]

On 6/16/2016 at 2:30 AM, jandslegate said:

Leng is most likely simply another nod to H.P. Lovecraft. https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&q=H.P. Lovecraft%2BLeng&oq=H.P. Lovecraft%2BLeng&aqs=chrome..69i57.7871j0j7

Just about everything you hear of these "mysterious" places are empty references to Lovecraft, Howard, Moorcock and that sort of stuff. As in, very direct references, which is why we'll probably not see very much of those places as it'd be just "whole plot reference" ripoffs of various particular stories by those authors. Literally every single word is one of those: K'dath, Leng, Stygai, you name it, if you know what the words refer to it jarringly breaks the 4th wall and takes you right out of it.

While we're there, if you could tie GRRM to a chair and slap him for a while he'd probably fess up to the fact that he chose the naming scheme for Greyjoys just so he can name one of their guys "Dagon". But the whole Greyjoys thing is an actually interesting take on what a mess a Lovecraft inspired culture would actually be, and the simultanous jabs at christianity are hilarious. But if the eastern stuff was shown more off you'd get that: something out of Lovecraft, Howard or the like with a "slice of life" feel to it.

It's just "here there be Lovecraft" Whoohohohohohohohohohohohohoh