Match day 2: Albania vs Switzerland, Wales vs Slovakia, England vs Russia

[Raja]

Yes, but Drinkwater would not be getting into the side ahead of Dier. It just seems odd that Drinkwater is being hailed as this overpowering DM that England needed  ( a position that Milner/ Henderson could possibly cover together behind Alli) - Plus, there's also the fact that he didn't do well in the friendlies before the tournament.  

You didn't need another DM against that Russia team. The game should have been put to bed long before the 90th minute - they were average, and England suffered for not putting away their chances as opposed to not having Drinkwater in the squad. 

[Dolorous Gabe]

I'm not saying he is great but we lack truly defensive midfield options. It's more a lamentation that Drinkwater could have been useful for helping to close out the Russia game. Neither Milner nor Wilshere are such options unless you're using Milner as a more positionally aware wide player. I'm tempted to suggest that Drinkwater, in Milner's position for their goal, wouldn't have sold himself and they might not have scored without the angle the crosser created from Milner's mistake.

We have 5 strikers (Granted, Rooney is doubling as a midfielder). That seems more like a waste to me. You need options everywhere and our only truly defensive midfield option is Dier who is doubling as an emergency centre back option. Sometimes ability is irrelevant set against what a player could bring to a squad. Even someone like Cattermole could have been useful for that situation.

EDIT:

I agree that we should have put it to bed earlier but football is rarely that simple is it? You need to be able to adapt to situations.

[Raja]

28 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

You need to be able to adapt to situations.

That goes both ways though - Roy could have put a striker on to try and put that game to bed as opposed to try and 'see it out' - which I assume was part of his thinking when he put Jack on. It worked for German today. 

Edit: Find this debate a touch odd - I don't think Jack is a world beater but I do think he offers that team something none of the other midfielders can, especially from a deep position. Okay with him not starting ( as roy doesn't know his team) but to think that he should be left out all together is weird. 

[polishgenius]

While I appreciate that Wilshere is a bit different from the other options, I don't think what he brings is that important that it's normal that England literally delayed the announcement of the squad till he proved he could play an hour.

However, whether it was in for Wilshere or one of the others, I think it's indisputable that Drinkwater should have been in there. And I don't think Wilshere was really brought on to see it out- I think he was brought on coz he was the most defensive CM Roy had left. Which was the problem. At best, having him and Milner on showed confused intentions, coz he could burst from midfield but had less options to pass to when he got to the final third.

[Nas!]

"Noble for Engerland..."

[Raja]

7 hours ago, DjourouLoveMe? said:

While I appreciate that Wilshere is a bit different from the other options, I don't think what he brings is that important that it's normal that England literally delayed the announcement of the squad till he proved he could play an hour.

Are you sure? Cause he played about 2-3 games for Arsenal. I'm not sure why they would have had to see if he could play for 60 minutes for England before announcing the squad. I thought Drinkwater was pretty average when they played a system that didn't suit him in those England friendlies. Point is, I don't think they lost the game because they couldn't introduce Drinkwater or Cattermole ( yeesh) into that team. 

[Dolorous Gabe]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

Are you sure? Cause he played about 2-3 games for Arsenal. I'm not sure why they would have had to see if he could play for 60 minutes for England before announcing the squad. I thought Drinkwater was pretty average when they played a system that didn't suit him in those England friendlies. Point is, I don't think they lost the game because they couldn't introduce Drinkwater or Cattermole ( yeesh) into that team. 

I agree with the bolded. The game should have been put to bed and there are positives in how forward-thinking the team was. I have more of an issue with Hodgson over not bringing Vardy on to run at two centre-halfs in their mid-30s. The game was crying out for him.

That said, we dropped deep late on when we had a midfield that should be looking to keep possession. Given that we dropped deep like that, we ideally required another proficient defensive midfielder and use pace to counter-attack because Milner and Wilshere aren't cut out for that system (unless it's to use Milner wide in a 4-5-1). Henderson would have been better equipped to assist the situation because he has better positional awareness. And as I've said, someone with better positional awareness would probably not have sold himself the way Milner did, which allowed a slightly better angle for the crosser.

At the same time, we do have to give credit to the crosser and the scorer. The header was perfect. Just one of those things.

[polishgenius]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Are you sure? Cause he played about 2-3 games for Arsenal. I'm not sure why they would have had to see if he could play for 60 minutes for England before announcing the squad. I thought Drinkwater was pretty average when they played a system that didn't suit him in those England friendlies. Point is, I don't think they lost the game because they couldn't introduce Drinkwater or Cattermole ( yeesh) into that team. 

They were going to announce the squad before the final weekend of the season, but they decided to wait until after to see how Wilshere coped with starting on the final day.