Rationale for attacking Winterfell

[The Bastard Dayne]

7 minutes ago, watcher of the night said:

You know the north is a bit larger than just winterfell and the gift, look at the map perhaps. There is a forest size of Frnace just North of winterfell, no way Ramsay could find them if they don't want to be found. also the wildlings were perfectly fine nroth of the wall in the frozen tundra, perhaps they will be just as fine south of it.

I do. I also know that they can't just hang out there. WW are coming. Clock is ticking.

That is just stupid. There is no way Jon can defeat a larger force with ill equipped, ill trained wildlings. Ramsay has a better infantry, better archers, better cavalry and more of everything. Attcking Ramsay is a suicide.

So is trying to pass Winterfell, or just standing their ground between it and the Wall. See my previous point.

Bullshit. how on earth did this Vale army captured Moat Cailin? A feat of amrs that no army did it from the South. Beside how is it that no one realized it? no one f*cking saw that a 10-15k army marching north? Are the northmen blind too? How come no one told this to Ramsay? Bullshit and bullshit. Totally unrealistic and plotdriven.

Oh, I totally agree. I've already said so. See the post I made just prior to this one.

Still doesn't change the fact that in the narrative we've been given ( shitty as it is ), Ramsay has no clue LF is there.

Again they don't have to "bypass" Winterfell. Please look at the map and observe the distance between Wf and the wall.

And again; They can't just hang out there.

They should do what others suggested: guerilla warfare. Draw out the small bolton groups, isolate and defeat them. Threaten the Last Heart to draw out the Umbers, harass them, isolate small groups defeat them. Try to rally the rest of the North in the meantime. Attack the enemy where it is weak, avoid it where it is strong. 

And how do they draw out " small groups "? Again; outnumbered 6 to 1. Ramsay could send 1/6th of his forces and still be on a even playing field, plus have enough in reserve to outnumber Jon and Co 5 to 1 if they somehow pulled off some miracle and suffered no casualties. Ramsay/Karstarks/Umbers are in alliance now. Ramsay and Co know that Jon has a Wildling army backing him. Attacking Last Hearth and/or Karhold isn't going to see only a few Umbers or Karstarks coming to the defense.

 

Replies in bold.

Yes; The writing is piss-poor, and totally plot driven. I guess " creatively it made sense because they wanted it to happen ". That's still where things stand.

[watcher of the night]

2 minutes ago, The Bastard Dayne said:

Yes; The writing is piss-poor, and totally plot driven.

I agree and that is what the OP said as well.

[Survivor92]

4 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

But that's exactly what Jon was going to do in the books before Marsh gutted him.

The battle no one has read yet? That battle? We don't even know if there was a battle, let alone how it turned out. I wouldn't treat fan theories as canon. 

You can't just compare the books and show like this. If D&D have proven anything in the past two seasons, it's that.

Yes Jon planned on attacking Winterfell but army sizes, allegiance of Northern houses, etc. is all different.

5 hours ago, The Bastard Dayne said:

No one knows about the Vale army. Without them, Ramsay's forces outnumber Jon and co like 6 to 1.

 

Yeah see, that's another example of bad writing. There's just no way the Vale army can just sneak to Winterfell undetected. Even if we do massive handwaving to explain how they made it past the Freys or Moat Cailin, you can't just keep a huge army hidden like that. A small striking force, maybe (but even then words gets around). But for such a massive force you draw so much attention that Ramsay has to deliberately keep all his spies and scouts inside the castle walls and not listen to any rumors, in order to not be aware of their arrival.

Stannis not knowing about the Tyrells during the Battle for Blackwater, for instance, is a whole different matter because he was the attacker there. Ramsay is supposed to control the lands around Winterfell now.

4 hours ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

But that's exactly what Jon was going to do in the books before Marsh gutted him.

The battle no one has read yet? That battle? We don't even know if there was a battle, let alone how it turned out. I wouldn't treat fan theories as canon. 

That was, of course, assuming that D&D have more info about the upcoming plot than we do. I wasn't talking about fan theories either, the outline for the battle is there and breaking the ice is just one possible way how they could do it. My point is that there were lots of other options instead of making Jon suicidally attacking Winterfell and then Ramsay not knowing about the Vale army like a retard.