Ranks of nobility in Westeros - Dukes, counts and barons in all but name

[Myrish Lace]

 

9 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

the Great Councils do not stand above the king.

Says you.

But I prefer to work with facts, not hypotheticals about could-have-been Queens. The facts are, Great Council's decision stands and when it actually comes in contradiction with the ruling of the King, Great Council's vision prevails and remains true without a fault for two centuries. It is a clear and simple cap to royal power.

12 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That is why it is pretty clear that the lords of the Realm actually act as hereditary royal officials and governors. As a class, they are not collectively or individually opposed to the idea that they are more or less enacting the will of the king on the lands they hold in his name. They are not constantly fighting with the king for more privileges or independence from central rule.

Again, it may be clear to you, but I see radically different picture.

In absence of institutions, royal power over the Lords is tenuous and relies on overwhelming support of royal cause by said Lords. When the Crown starts pushing some kind of will the Lords disagree with, they stop enacting royal will and start working towards undoing royal will. And yes, it can take form of independence drive, see Lyonel Baratheon.

Then the monarch either persists or realizes how powerless the Iron Throne is without its Lords. In former case, the monarch gets boot to the head (Maegor, Rhaenyra, Aerys II) or the decision that doesn't comply with Lords' delicate sensibilities is disregarded (Viserys I, Aegon V and his peasant reforms). In the latter case, the monarch throws in some honey to keep Lord(s) sweet (like Aegon V and aforementioned Lyonel Baratheon) and gravy train keeps on rolling. Yes, Lords take Targaryens for their causes when they can - and why wouldn't they? `"Regular" Targaryen rule works out wonderfully for the nobility; they don't even have to look back on the Faith anymore. And when the Crown grows delusional about its actual power and start jeopardizing the ruling class, the Lords put it back into the corner - quite violently, when need arises.

56 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

You could just as well claim the lords don't hold any real power because they sworn swords and men-at-arms could turn against them, killing them, seizing all their wealth, and establishing the People's Republic of Westeros.

There is no precedent for that. The Lords on the other hand have a long and quite successful history about expressing their displeasure about Crown's actions and putting things back on track - their track. 

[Corvo the Crow]

 @Free Northman Reborn

This isn't exactly what you wanted, but here are some relevant stuff

Quote

The rest had left eight days past, six hundred men from Winterfell and the nearest holdfasts. Cley Cerwyn was bringing three hundred more to join them on the march, and Maester Luwin had sent ravens before them, summoning levies from White Harbor and the barrowlands and even the deep places inside the wolfswood. Torrhen's Square was under attack by some monstrous war chief named Dagmer Cleftjaw.

...

Maester Aemon had sent a lot of birds . . . not to one king, but to four. Wildlings at the gate, the message ran. The realm in danger. Send all the help you can to Castle Black. Even as far as Oldtown and the Citadel the ravens flew, and to half a hundred mighty lords in their castles. The northern lords offered their best hope, so to them Aemon had sent two birds. To the Umbers and the Boltons, to Castle Cerwyn and Torrhen's Square, Karhold and Deepwood Motte, to Bear Island, Oldcastle, Widow's Watch, White Harbor, Barrowton, and the Rills, to the mountain fastnesses of the Liddles, the Burleys, the Norreys, the Harclays, and the Wulls, the black birds brought their plea. Wildlings at the gate. The north in danger. Come with all your strength.

...

"As you command, Sire." Maege Mormont had ridden south with Robb, Jon knew. Her eldest daughter had joined the Young Wolf's host as well. Even if both of them had died, however, Lady Maege had other daughters, some with children of their own. Had they gone with Robb as well? Surely Lady Maege would have left at least one of the older girls behind as castellan. He did not understand why Lyanna should be writing Stannis, and could not help but wonder if the girl's answer might have been different if the letter had been sealed with a direwolf instead of a crowned stag, and signed by Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell. It is too late for such misgivings. You made your choice.

"Two score ravens were sent out," the king complained, "yet we get no response but silence and defiance. Homage is the duty every leal subject owes his king. Yet your father's bannermen all turn their back on me, save the Karstarks. Is Arnolf Karstark the only man of honor in the north?"

...

On Maiden’s Day in the year 130 AC, the Citadel of Oldtown sent forth three hundred white ravens to herald the coming of winter

...

 Every great lord has his maester, every lesser lord aspires to one.

From Barbrey we learn about maesters that all the great lords has one, but not all the lords have a maester, so not all can afford one.

A raven message means a maester. Three hundred White ravens mean there were, at the time, three hundred lords who could afford a maester.

From chapters taking place in the North we know there are more than 40 lords who could afford maesters, as Stannis wouldn't send Ravens to those bannermen of Roose who have maesters or those lords who have joined him. We also learn that even woods clans and some mountain clans have maesters. With the houses we have some knowledge on, this should paint a picture.

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

 @Free Northman Reborn

This isn't exactly what you wanted, but here are some relevant stuff

From Barbrey we learn about maesters that all the great lords has one, but not all the lords have a maester, so not all can afford one.

A raven message means a maester. Three hundred White ravens mean there were, at the time, three hundred lords who could afford a maester.

From chapters taking place in the North we know there are more than 40 lords who could afford maesters, as Stannis wouldn't send Ravens to those bannermen of Roose who have maesters or those lords who have joined him. We also learn that even woods clans and some mountain clans have maesters. With the houses we have some knowledge on, this should paint a picture.

 

Just to clarify, was this in response to this thread or the one on military strength?

 

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

At the end of the day, the legalities are mere technicalities for idle discussion among those who care about it. In the end, it comes  down to power. And the truth is that from the evidence, any of the Lords Paramount could decide to rebel, and most of his kingdom would follow his lead, bar maybe the Riverlands and Reach, where the Lords Paramount are in general less respected than in the kingdoms where older lineages hold sway.

That is actually not the impression we get. Even during Robert's Rebellion - when the rebels were actually fighting against a tyrannical/mad king, on a similar level as Maegor - half the Realm stood with Aerys II, and two of the rebellious great lords faced severe opposition from the side of their own bannermen. If Robert hadn't reacted as quickly as he did - and if he hadn't been as lucky as he was - he would have been crushed at Summerhall.

In addition, the example of Robert's Rebellion cannot be transferred to the reigns of other kings. Aerys II was irrational and paranoid, not exactly capable of taking charge personally. And his popular Heir Apparent was absent, too, either on some weird pleasure trip or also forced to hide from his angry dad.

Any other Targaryen king could have dealt with such a crisis much more decisively - just imagine what men like Maekar, Aegon V, or Daeron II would have done in the same situation.

Chances are that with such powerful kings on the throne very few bannermen of a great lord would have answered said man call if he had declared to rebel against the Iron Throne. Even if there were severe issues at hand.

3 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Sure, there would have been the odd ambitious vassal lord who saw greater prospects for himself by aligning with the Iron Throne, as we saw even in Robert's Rebellion, but it seems pretty clear from the Rebellion itself, that a large number of vassal lords - certainly the majority in the North, and arguably in the Vale too - saw their duty to their Lord Paramount as greater than the duty to the Iron Throne. Else there could have been no rebellion, let alone a successful one.

See above.

But when you raise that point note that we have George telling us that Rhaegar had about 40,000 men at the Trident - and that his army was somewhat larger than Robert's. That means that none of the leaders of the Rebellion had even remotely their full potential at the Trident. Most of the Stormlanders would be back home (or at least not with Robert) due to the way Robert's campaign continued after Summerhall and Ashford.

If we actually imagined that Ned and Jon brought their full power - or nearly their full power - to the Trident then that should have made their combined army larger than 40,000 - and larger still, if Hoster had indeed brought half the Riverlords to the Trident.

In that sense, it looks as if there might have been more trouble in the Vale, the Riverlands, and perhaps even the North than we know as of yet - or that quite a few lords and knights actually stayed out of the war entirely, playing the same card the Freys did (or the Tyrells during the Dance).

3 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Had the Tyrells and Martells refused Aerys's call for support, Aerys would have been left with a fraction of the forces he ended up with.

In case of Dorne this might be true, due to the fact that the Martells very much control their own lands in their own right. But with the Reach it is blatantly false - and also in general, as the history shows. Various Targaryen kings called directly upon the strength of certain houses, and got their support, without ever going through the great houses first.

Just take the Dance as an example - the Tyrells stayed out of the war entirely, yet did that extend to the lords of the Reach who should then have remained neutral, too? No. The same with the Riverlands - Lord Grover Tully wanted to go to war in Aegon II's name but his grandson prevented it, keeping the Tullys out of the war for the first half. But the Riverlords didn't follow the Tully example, either.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

18 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Just to clarify, was this in response to this thread or the one on military strength?

 

This one.

Of all the regions North is the one we know most about it's vassals; 40 mountain clans(at least 5 has maesters), 11 principle houses(taken from AGOT appendix and added Lockes so may be missing more) with maesters, some known crannogmen houses(none of them have maesters) and wood clans(at leat some have maesters), Manderlys 100 landed knights and 12 lesser lords(some may have maesters).

This should, though indirectly, portray a power structure and give us an idea which lord falls where in there. Clearly not all the landed knights of Manderly have maesters, if any do and with only 40 Ravens sent not all of his lesser lords may have one either but some mountain clansmen are able to keep one.

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

This one.

Of all the regions North is the one we know most about it's vassals; 40 mountain clans(at least 5 has maesters), 11 principle houses(taken from AGOT appendix and added Lockes so may be missing more) with maesters, some known crannogmen houses(none of them have maesters) and wood clans(at leat some have maesters), Manderlys 100 landed knights and 12 lesser lords(some may have maesters).

This should, though indirectly, portray a power structure and give us an idea which lord falls where in there. Clearly not all the landed knights of Manderly have maesters, if any do and with only 40 Ravens sent not all of his lesser lords may have one either but some mountain clansmen are able to keep one.

 

There would also be a Raven limit. Meaning Ravens are expensive and take a long time to train and transport. So Castle Black might not have a raven originating from every keep in the North that has a Maester. There might be a hub and spoke system in place, where ravens are sent to main keeps, with those keeps usually having ravens that can fly on to their vassals.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

11 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

There would also be a Raven limit. Meaning Ravens are expensive and take a long time to train and transport. So Castle Black might not have a raven originating from every keep in the North that has a Maester. There might be a hub and spoke system in place, where ravens are sent to main keeps, with those keeps usually having ravens that can fly on to their vassals.

 

Possibly, but we also have the upper limit of 300 for the entire realm. White Ravens are only ever used to announce that winter has come.

Within this 9 areas, it already has more than the average of 33 per area with 40 ravens sent and some they wouldn't.

So North having some 60 houses with maesters would be tops I guess, since we have also Dorne, Stormlands, Crownlands and Iron Islands, however few houses they would have, and the Reach with the huge and highly populated area it has and Vale, Riverlands and Westerlands that fall somewhere in between.

 

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Possibly, but we also have the upper limit of 300 for the entire realm. White Ravens are only ever used to announce that winter has come.

Within this 9 areas, it already has more than the average of 33 per area with 40 ravens sent and some they wouldn't.

So North having some 60 houses with maesters would be tops I guess, since we have also Dorne, Stormlands, Crownlands and Iron Islands, however few houses they would have, and the Reach with the huge and highly populated area it has and Vale, Riverlands and Westerlands that fall somewhere in between.

 

 

Same applies to the White Ravens. They would also not go to every House with a Maester.

[direpupy]

47 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

There would also be a Raven limit. Meaning Ravens are expensive and take a long time to train and transport. So Castle Black might not have a raven originating from every keep in the North that has a Maester. There might be a hub and spoke system in place, where ravens are sent to main keeps, with those keeps usually having ravens that can fly on to their vassals.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Possibly, but we also have the upper limit of 300 for the entire realm. White Ravens are only ever used to announce that winter has come.

Within this 9 areas, it already has more than the average of 33 per area with 40 ravens sent and some they wouldn't.

So North having some 60 houses with maesters would be tops I guess, since we have also Dorne, Stormlands, Crownlands and Iron Islands, however few houses they would have, and the Reach with the huge and highly populated area it has and Vale, Riverlands and Westerlands that fall somewhere in between.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Same applies to the White Ravens. They would also not go to every House with a Maester.

So if we go with the theory that the 300 white ravens only go to main keeps, who then send the message on to there own vassals as part of a hub and spoke system, that does give you a ruff idea of how many great houses there are in the realm.

Or am i interpreting what you guy's are saying wrong? 

[Corvo the Crow]

2 hours ago, direpupy said:

 

So if we go with the theory that the 300 white ravens only go to main keeps, who then send the message on to there own vassals as part of a hub and spoke system, that does give you a ruff idea of how many great houses there are in the realm.

Or am i interpreting what you guy's are saying wrong? 

You got it right but I must confess I myself have misunderstood FNR's post.

There'd be a "hub and spoke" system, yes but I believe it'd be with riders and not ravens. From Barbrey we know that not all can afford a maester so not all would have a ravenry for their liege to send them a raven message.

 

300 is too low a figure when taking into account how many castles, towns, towers, holdfasts and houses that own them there would be in even the smallest of regions but it is too high a figure to just send to the "main keeps", which would be the keeps of principle houses so it would be the number of houses with maesters.

[Free Northman Reborn]

38 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

You got it right but I must confess I myself have misunderstood FNR's post.

There'd be a "hub and spoke" system, yes but I believe it'd be with riders and not ravens. From Barbrey we know that not all can afford a maester so not all would have a ravenry for their liege to send them a raven message.

 

300 is too low a figure when taking into account how many castles, towns, towers, holdfasts and houses that own them there would be in even the smallest of regions but it is too high a figure to just send to the "main keeps", which would be the keeps of principle houses so it would be the number of houses with maesters.

Agreed. It will be a mixture of the two options. Some of the "spokes" will use ravens and some riders. Some petty lords will have Maesters, some won't. Some Landed Knights will even have Maesters.

Clearly some of the vassals of House Glover have Maesters, else Aemon could not send ravens to the hidden places in the depths of the Wolfswood. But as Lady Dustin tells us, there are also many lords who don't have Maesters and aspire to get one.

So the answer is inbetween.

EDIT

The major Houses of the North are:

Mormont

Umber

Karstark

Bolton

Hornwood

Cerwyn

Flint of Widows Watch

Manderly

Locke

Slate

Glover

Tallhart

Dustin

Ryswell

Reed

Flint of Flint's Finger

That's 16 houses. However, we know House Reed does not have a rookery. We can exchange them with House Stark, who is not on the above list, and who does have a rookery. So the number remains 16.

Then we have the Mountain Clans, of which there are 40, varying widely in size. I would expect that the larger clans like Wull, Norrey, Flint, Harckley, Burley, Knott and Liddle likely have ravens. Certainly Martin says they are the equivalent of petty lords, with some having castles, albeit fairly small ones.

Next we have the 3 major lords of Skagos, and we don't know if they have Maesters or not.

After that we get down to the vassal lords of the primary lords. Clearly, if even some of the Wolfswood clans sworn to Deepwood Motte have ravens, then petty lords in the more developed areas like the Manderly, Dustin and other lands will also have ravens.

So in short, it is difficult to quantify how many northern Houses have Maesters. I don't think the "40" number represents all of them. But I also don't think that every rookery has ravens that can fly to every other rookery. For practical reasons they will have to be selective in which Houses they have dedicated ravens for.

 

[direpupy]

18 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

You got it right but I must confess I myself have misunderstood FNR's post.

There'd be a "hub and spoke" system, yes but I believe it'd be with riders and not ravens. From Barbrey we know that not all can afford a maester so not all would have a ravenry for their liege to send them a raven message.

 

300 is too low a figure when taking into account how many castles, towns, towers, holdfasts and houses that own them there would be in even the smallest of regions but it is too high a figure to just send to the "main keeps", which would be the keeps of principle houses so it would be the number of houses with maesters.

I think there are probably more then 300 houses with a maester and that the low number of 300 is more likely that it is impossible to have a rare white raven for every castle with a maester.

By the way, by great houses i mean those houses that are powerful enough to have there own vassals for which i think 300 is a pretty accurate number, going by the fact that every one of the nine regions with they exception of Dorne has over 30 named Lordly houses. And if you count there named knightly houses of which some of the more powerful might also have vassals, 300 is not such a high number for houses with vassals. 

[Free Northman Reborn]

16 minutes ago, direpupy said:

I think there are probably more then 300 houses with a maester and that the low number of 300 is more likely that it is impossible to have a rare white raven for every castle with a maester.

By the way, by great houses i mean those houses that are powerful enough to have there own vassals for which i think 300 is a pretty accurate number, going by the fact that every one of the nine regions with they exception of Dorne has over 30 named Lordly houses. And if you count there named knightly houses of which some of the more powerful might also have vassals, 300 is not such a high number for houses with vassals. 

The lords have vassals, the vassals have vassals and sometimes the vassals of the vassals have vassals. "Lords who have vassals" is a bit of a broad term, I think.

[direpupy]

21 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The lords have vassals, the vassals have vassals and sometimes the vassals of the vassals have vassals. "Lords who have vassals" is a bit of a broad term, I think.

Your right it is broad.

but how would you narrow it down?

best i can think of is upper tier houses but that does not cover it either since it is not much of a narrower term.

Basically there are at least 300 houses considered powerful or old and honorable enough to receive one of the rare white ravens that announce winter.

It just gives a basic idea of how many houses with enough power to command the respect of the citadel there are in they entire realm.

[Corvo the Crow]

45 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Agreed. It will be a mixture of the two options. Some of the "spokes" will use ravens and some riders. Some petty lords will have Maesters, some won't. Some Landed Knights will even have Maesters.

Clearly some of the vassals of House Glover have Maesters, else Aemon could not send ravens to the hidden places in the depths of the Wolfswood. But as Lady Dustin tells us, there are also many lords who don't have Maesters and aspire to get one.

So the answer is inbetween.

EDIT

The major Houses of the North are:

Mormont

Umber

Karstark

Bolton

Hornwood

Cerwyn

Flint of Widows Watch

Manderly

Locke

Slate

Glover

Tallhart

Dustin

Ryswell

Reed

Flint of Flint's Finger

That's 16 houses. However, we know House Reed does not have a rookery. We can exchange them with House Stark, who is not on the above list, and who does have a rookery. So the number remains 16.

Then we have the Mountain Clans, of which there are 40, varying widely in size. I would expect that the larger clans like Wull, Norrey, Flint, Harckley, Burley, Knott and Liddle likely have ravens. Certainly Martin says they are the equivalent of petty lords, with some having castles, albeit fairly small ones.

Next we have the 3 major lords of Skagos, and we don't know if they have Maesters or not.

After that we get down to the vassal lords of the primary lords. Clearly, if even some of the Wolfswood clans sworn to Deepwood Motte have ravens, then petty lords in the more developed areas like the Manderly, Dustin and other lands will also have ravens.

So in short, it is difficult to quantify how many northern Houses have Maesters. I don't think the "40" number represents all of them. But I also don't think that every rookery has ravens that can fly to every other rookery. For practical reasons they will have to be selective in which Houses they have dedicated ravens for.

 

Makes sense, but then there are other things to account for, like which houses Stannis could and would send a Raven to.

Obviously he'll not be sending any Ravens to Boltons and their bannermen. He'll not be sending any to Cerwyn, Dustin and Ryswell or any of their bannermen since they have declared for Roose. He won't send any to Glovers or Tallharts since Ironborn hold those castles, though he may send to their bannermen(if Tallharts have any/with maesters). He won't send any to Hornwoods since last we know of their castle was under Manderly control, their territory contested between Wyman and Roose and their soldiers are dispersed all over the North, though he may send to their bannermen also. He'll also not be sending any to Winterfell.

I wouldn't count Slates as a principal house but going with 16 major houses anyway, this leaves us with 8 major ones that he would send a Raven to. We know 5 of the mountain clans also get ravens from Aemon. Any of the remaining ravens would be going to vassals of vassals, like Condons if Cerwyns haven't declared for Boltons to give an example. This is my reasoning behind that this 40 would amount to number of total Northern houses with Maesters (that haven't declared for Roose / aren't under occupation); number of remaining houses to receive a raven is near twice the number of all the major ones listed.

[Corvo the Crow]

2 minutes ago, direpupy said:

Your right it is broad.

but how would you narrow it down?

best i can think of is upper tier houses but that does not cover it either since it is not much of a narrower term.

Basically there are at least 300 houses considered powerful or old and honorable enough to receive one of the rare white ravens that announce winter.

It just gives a basic idea of how many houses with enough power to command the respect of the citadel there are in they entire realm.

I wouldn't tie it to respect, but wealth(or power) since citadel wouldn't work for free and neither the maesters sworn to a castle would buy all the ingredients out of their pocket.

[direpupy]

2 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Makes sense, but then there are other things to account for, like which houses Stannis could and would send a Raven to.

Obviously he'll not be sending any Ravens to Boltons and their bannermen. He'll not be sending any to Cerwyn, Dustin and Ryswell or any of their bannermen since they have declared for Roose. He won't send any to Glovers or Tallharts since Ironborn hold those castles, though he may send to their bannermen(if Tallharts have any/with maesters). He won't send any to Hornwoods since last we know of their castle was under Manderly control, their territory contested between Wyman and Roose and their soldiers are dispersed all over the North, though he may send to their bannermen also. He'll also not be sending any to Winterfell.

I wouldn't count Slates as a principal house but going with 16 major houses anyway, this leaves us with 8 major ones that he would send a Raven to. We know 5 of the mountain clans also get ravens from Aemon. Any of the remaining ravens would be going to vassals of vassals, like Condons if Cerwyns haven't declared for Boltons to give an example. This is my reasoning behind that this 40 would amount to number of total Northern houses with Maesters (that haven't declared for Roose / aren't under occupation); number of remaining houses to receive a raven is near twice the number of all the major ones listed.

So if i understand you correctly. 

Stannis sends 40 ravens (the two score from the quote) but this excludes the houses that he knows to be siding with Roose Bolton and since that excludes half of the major house on FNR's list, this means there are probably twice as much houses with a maester in total for the North.

So about 80 houses in the North with a maester, is that correct?

[Free Northman Reborn]

7 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Makes sense, but then there are other things to account for, like which houses Stannis could and would send a Raven to.

Obviously he'll not be sending any Ravens to Boltons and their bannermen. He'll not be sending any to Cerwyn, Dustin and Ryswell or any of their bannermen since they have declared for Roose. He won't send any to Glovers or Tallharts since Ironborn hold those castles, though he may send to their bannermen(if Tallharts have any/with maesters). He won't send any to Hornwoods since last we know of their castle was under Manderly control, their territory contested between Wyman and Roose and their soldiers are dispersed all over the North, though he may send to their bannermen also. He'll also not be sending any to Winterfell.

I wouldn't count Slates as a principal house but going with 16 major houses anyway, this leaves us with 8 major ones that he would send a Raven to. We know 5 of the mountain clans also get ravens from Aemon. Any of the remaining ravens would be going to vassals of vassals, like Condons if Cerwyns haven't declared for Boltons to give an example. This is my reasoning behind that this 40 would amount to number of total Northern houses with Maesters (that haven't declared for Roose / aren't under occupation); number of remaining houses to receive a raven is near twice the number of all the major ones listed.

Good point about the Houses Allied to Roose who might not have ravens sent to them.

Regarding House Slate, they were once petty Kings, once held the Wolfsden similar to the Lockes and Flints, and are sworn directly to Winterfell and not to one of Winterfell's vassals. They are a major House of the North.

[direpupy]

7 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I wouldn't tie it to respect, but wealth(or power) since citadel wouldn't work for free and neither the maesters sworn to a castle would buy all the ingredients out of their pocket.

Well the power to impress and gain the respect of the citadel is probably closely tied to how rich and powerful a house is, so i think we are on the same page on this one.

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 minute ago, direpupy said:

So if i understand you correctly. 

Stannis sends 40 ravens (the two score from the quote) but this excludes the houses that he knows to be siding with Roose Bolton and since that excludes half of the major house on FNR's list, this means there are probably twice as much houses with a maester in total for the North.

So about 80 houses in the North with a maester, is that correct?

Or rather, 80 Houses which Castle Black has ravens for. Remember, each raven can only fly to one destination, and you will want multiple ravens in stock for the most prominent Houses - those you want to communicate with most often. Therefore practical constraints will likely mean that Castle Black will not have ravens that can fly to every minor castle with a Maester in the North. Else they would need to keep thousands of ravens at any given time in their rookery. 

Not to mention the ravens meant for all the castles in the South.