50 Dead, Dozens Wounded in Orlando Club Shooting

[Good Guy Garlan]

I live in Orlando (well, technically Kissimmee, but close enough) and just the thought that I was out last night in relative proximity of Pulse makes my skin crawl. 

I love this country but I just don't know what to do. I have a serious phobia of mass shootings, to the point that I don't do malls or clubs if I can avoid it, and stuff like this happening, especially so close to home is just devastating to me. And if a dozen white children in an affluent neighborhood get killed and people do nothing, then I don't know how this can ever be fixed. Obama proposed the most basic, minor regulations on gun sales earlier this year and the NRA and their brainwashed masses flipped out. 

I don't know, that's why I'm planning to move to Central America by the end of the year. Trump winning would be the final push I need to pack up and go. I'm just nauseated by this whole gun culture, the sheer ridiculousness of stuff like this happening almost weekly in one of the most powerful countries in the world. It just shouldn't occur anymore, it's beyond backwards, it's self-destructive. 

[Hereward]

4 minutes ago, Good Guy Garlan said:

I don't know, that's why I'm planning to move to Central America by the end of the year. Trump winning would be the final push I need to pack up and go. I'm just nauseated by this whole gun culture, the sheer ridiculousness of stuff like this happening almost weekly in one of the most powerful countries in the world. It just shouldn't occur anymore, it's beyond backwards, it's self-destructive. 

You know most of Central America has far higher rates of gun violence than the US, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

[Good Guy Garlan]

4 minutes ago, Hereward said:

You know most of Central America has far higher rates of gun violence than the US, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Most, yes, but not the country where I'm going. 

[JGP]

I first popped into the Lit Forum and just saw this now [not a morning news guy] it's this kind of fucking bullshit that makes it very difficult to remain optimistic about the world my children are growing into.  

[rubs eyes]

I just... No words.

 

[Lord of Rhinos]

This is terrible.  My prayers go out to the victims' families.

[Boris the Blade]

Of course the westboro baptist church opens their mouths about this, because why wouldn't they show themselves to be some of the scummiest pieces of shit in this country that help fuel this type of homophobic hatred and behavior. 

 

[Lily Valley]

3 hours ago, Maester Drew said:

Ladies and Gentlemen, I'd like to bring your attention to this: The Upstairs Lounge Fire in New Orleans.

All I can say is, I am glad to live in a world in which this recent tragedy faced by the LGBT community isn't met with casual indifference as it was for the Upstairs Lounge all those years ago. And instead, we see so much love pouring out for the victims, the families, and the community, it really warms my heart. 

This place is still a shrine.  It's horrible to actually visit.  Worth it if you're in town.  We're having a vigil tonight.  People here are really angry and really scared.

[TrackerNeil]

Some of you may know that gay clubs are always open on Christmas, and Thanksgiving, and all those holidays. What you may not know is that they are open because many of us have no other place to go. The clubs aren't perfect but, goddamn, you feel safe there. They are where being non-hetero is normal and you can let it all hang out. They're where you can be in the majority, for freakin' once.

And now they are where you get shot.

They knew right where to hit us.

[all swedes are racist]

56 minutes ago, Lily Valley said:

This place is still a shrine.  It's horrible to actually visit.  Worth it if you're in town.  We're having a vigil tonight.  People here are really angry and really scared.

Stay safe out there yo

[TrackerNeil]

10 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

I will never understand how a human being can hate people he's never met so much that he's willing to die just to hurt them.

May I suggest that the next mass-murderer go right to suicide? We'll all be happier for skipping Step One, thanks.

[Maester Drew]

2 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said:

May I suggest that the next mass-murderer go right to suicide? We'll all be happier for skipping Step One, thanks.

What if the next one is a suicide bomber? They'd still kill people as they commit suicide. :/

[TrackerNeil]

6 minutes ago, Maester Drew said:

What if the next one is a suicide bomber? They'd still kill people as they commit suicide. :/

I have a number of suggestions for suicide bombers, but as it is I'm deep enough in a well of negativity. I think I've had enough Internet for today. 

[Squab]

7 hours ago, karaddin said:

It's a fucking hate crime that's a progression from the homophobic rhetoric of your right wing

Although damaging and abhorrent, the homophobic rhetoric from the right is an odd place to lay blame considering the guy was a registered democrat and called 911 to pledge his allegiance to ISIS before the attack.  Also, his ex wife has come out and accused him of domestic violence.  Its not hard to see how his motivation might have its roots in Islamist attitudes towards homosexuality and his violent nature was his avenue.  Would not both of these factors exist without said homophobic rhetoric from the right?

I did also see there was something stopped in LA that might fit your description but I don't really know anything about that other than the idiots name.

[karaddin]

Yes, because registered democrats can never be homophobes and are immune to the effect of having a huge political platform telling them those ideas are correct and supported by the majority of righteous Americans. Yes, the domestic violence is absolutely relevant here but I don't see how the declaration for ISIS at the last minute proves motivation, it can easily be wrapping himself in the flag of ISIS for greater 'glory' or controversy or whatever as he goes out killing the people he decided to kill all on his own.

That this was the action of a violent man who also exhibited misogyny as well as his homicidal homophobia is not something I'm going to dispute, given I see one of the other chief problems here as being failed toxic masculinity which is a common thread in mass shootings. But you've had a bomb put in target bathrooms targeting trans people, a surgeons clinic in Montreal for trans women (yes, outside the USA to be fair but the top NA surgeon) subject to an arson attack, this shooting and the gunman stopped on his way to LA pride. The common point there is the firestorm of homophobia and transphobia overflowing to violence.

[Crazydog7]

Can I just say that I don't think its fair that the media will spend the next 2 weeks debating the motivations of this asshole.  Murderers and crazy people don't get to have political statements.  

Cue the usual suspects on all sides of the various political spectrum saying what they always.  Yes it is was a tragedy, no he shouldn't have had such easy access to a gun but if Newtown  didn't result in some gun control reform this isn't either. 

One interesting thing I did find in all this was this link about the history of LGBT violence makes for interesting reading

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LGBT_people_in_the_United_States

 

[Squab]

36 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Yes, because registered democrats can never be homophobes and are immune to the effect of having a huge political platform telling them those ideas are correct and supported by the majority of righteous Americans. Yes, the domestic violence is absolutely relevant here but I don't see how the declaration for ISIS at the last minute proves motivation, it can easily be wrapping himself in the flag of ISIS for greater 'glory' or controversy or whatever as he goes out killing the people he decided to kill all on his own.

That this was the action of a violent man who also exhibited misogyny as well as his homicidal homophobia is not something I'm going to dispute, given I see one of the other chief problems here as being failed toxic masculinity which is a common thread in mass shootings. But you've had a bomb put in target bathrooms targeting trans people, a surgeons clinic in Montreal for trans women (yes, outside the USA to be fair but the top NA surgeon) subject to an arson attack, this shooting and the gunman stopped on his way to LA pride. The common point there is the firestorm of homophobia and transphobia overflowing to violence.

We can probably do without the sarcasm but I agree not all democrats are immune to brainwashing or homophobia. I also agree (although I would have worded it differently) that there is a "firestorm of transphobia and homophobia overflowing to violence".  A Muslim cleric who has previously preached "gays must die"  was invited to and, I assume, spoke at an Orlando Muslim Center only two months ago.  Absolutely disgusting imho.

[Jace, Extat]

10 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

Yeah, I only just heard about it, and that's because I was checking the Broncos message board for info on Von Miller. They had a thread there. It's really awful. I think people (Americans in question) won't take this as just passing news. This is truly shocking to see. You see something like Sandy Hook and hope that is the last time you'll ever see/hear/feel that again, but it keeps happening, and it's the same gut punch again and again.

 

I really do not want to be the person to write what will follow as it's negative nature drowns any pretext of hope, but why do you think this is going to matter in 4 weeks? Children. Tiny children. Were butchered, and the nation barely batted an eye. I had to go to work shortly after leaving the thread this morning and just got back. A patient I was seeing asked if I knew what everyone was talking about in the ER and I told her that fifty people had been killed at a club in Florida, with another 50 injured. She was appropriately horrified until I told her that I'd seen it had been a 'like a gay club' and she fucking snickered! Went from horror to covering up her laugh in the span of 'it was a gay club'. Then of course she backtracked and amended 'that doesn't make it ok...'

Dude, nothing's gonna happen except a shitload of memes on facebook about that terrorist Obama who made this happen by taking away all the guns.

9 hours ago, Triskan said:

Alex Jones' site already has a piece connecting this and the shooting of the Voice contestant to an anti-2nd amendment effort because of course he does. 

Her name was Christina Grimmie.

[DaveSumm]

I think there's a pretty strong case to have a news blackout on perpetrators and motivations. You'd never manage it on the atrocities themselves, but it'd be a huge step forward if the news simply reported that this had happened, and that the shooter had been killed and his identity was known, but didn't report what that was. He has his notoriety, he has his homophobic views aired, IS have their free PR for doing nothing. Once again, we've handed them most of what they want.

For a different thread though I guess. Such a horrific thing. I hope you guys figure this out, but I really don't know what that path looks like.

[arya_underfoot]

2 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I think there's a pretty strong case to have a news blackout on perpetrators and motivations. You'd never manage it on the atrocities themselves, but it'd be a huge step forward if the news simply reported that this had happened, and that the shooter had been killed and his identity was known, but didn't report what that was. He has his notoriety, he has his homophobic views aired, IS have their free PR for doing nothing. Once again, we've handed them most of what they want.

For a different thread though I guess. Such a horrific thing. I hope you guys figure this out, but I really don't know what that path looks like.

Yeah, I totally agree. Whether or not ISIS had anything to do with this, they get lots of free publicity out of this. They get to pretend that their reach is substantially greater than what it actually is. Other psychos out there with similar inclinations to the shooter get emboldened. It's really not appropriate that the minute-to-minute news cycle adds fuel to the fire.

[Paladin of Ice]

10 hours ago, Squab said:

We can probably do without the sarcasm but I agree not all democrats are immune to brainwashing or homophobia. I also agree (although I would have worded it differently) that there is a "firestorm of transphobia and homophobia overflowing to violence".  A Muslim cleric who has previously preached "gays must die"  was invited to and, I assume, spoke at an Orlando Muslim Center only two months ago.  Absolutely disgusting imho.

Speaking of contributing to the overflow of trans/homophobia, there are all the pastors out there calling for the death of gays, including the one who Ted Cruz, (the guy who'd likely be a presidential nominee if not for Trump) had introduce him at a special event back in November.