TheKingInTheNorth3

Blackfish Stoneheart

75 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

How can the BF play a "similar role" to LSH. LSH wants to hang Brienne and forces her to prove her loyalty by killing Jaime.

BF:" You'll serve Sansa far better than I ever could".  So why would he think Brienne a traitor and make her kill Jaime, and prevent her from going back to serve Sansa.

LSH's entire plot based on a woman who has lost everything and only has vengeance, now Sansa is alive, Rickon is alive and being held hostage, Brienne even knows that Bran and Arya is still alive. The way they have wrote the story the LSH character has no reason to be around. 

 

 

The simple answer is BF takes on a LSH role but different motives. You are correct with LSH view but now look at BF. Frey's took his home from him not once but twice. Edmure made another stupid decision that has now cost him the men he had under his temporary command. Bf could hold Jamie accountable for ruining his last chance at holding RR. Not saying these are the best motives for thr purpose of bringing him back but just saying. So, ultimately his motive would be to kill all Freys and restore RR.

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14 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Cat is years dead. Do you really want to see that?

No.  But I hated her resurrection in the books as well.

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Not happening. 

Blackfish is gone and Beric is still around. No Stoneheart person. And that's probably for the best. 

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Such a cool idea for Blackfish to become "Blackheart."

As usual, fans are more creative and interesting than the show's writers. Given how things are going, it's far more likely that the point of having Blackfish (and Brienne for that matter) and the whole situation of Riverrun under siege was merely character development for Jaime. They're showing us his conflict between honor and duty and love. He got a great scene with Blackfish and another with Brienne and a speech about how much he loves Cersei with Edmure. 

With this show, the simplest (and most boring) explanation of events is usually the correct one. There's no Great Northern Conspiracy; the direwolves are actually dead; and they introduced and killed off Blackfish as a tool to further Jaime Lannister's character, not to finally deliver a version of the LSH plotline.

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Occam's Razor is very useful for this show.

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I don't think they will do LSH. But if they wanted to do it, they would go back to the Red Wedding and show the body being found right after the event. There's no reason they couldn't tell the story through flashbacks...and say she has been around all this time but laying low, hiding in that cave where Dondarrion fought the Hound. All this time she has been planning, gathering information and biding her time for the right opportunity. When she hears what happened to Blackfish and Riverrun, she springs into action.

I don't think they'll do it, but if they wanted to, that is one way they could tell the story. Having Thoros find and resurrect her at this point doesn't make sense. We'd have to go back in time through a flashback, Bran's vision, or just a caption letting us know that what we're seeing happened in the past.

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The Hound is the new LSH. He was "found" by the BWB near enough to a river, they hung three people (I think one wore the twins towers pin), and then the scene with the Hound pissing in the river was both to show how Beric was in the background talking to him and guiding him... And also to piss on the viewers hope there is a LSH that fits in to the story. 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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I think the Blackfish is genuinely dead. Sorry to burst bubbles and rain on parades. The way he said he hasn't had a proper fight in years and expects to be overmatched, combined with the way the guard told Jaime seems open and shut to me. The proper fight comment was particularly revealing. We haven't seen it much in GoT, but there have been many fighters (in real life/other stories) who were feared by fierce reputation long after their skills waned. IMO the Blackfish has known for a while his reputation outweighed his ability. The comment by Bronn last week may play into this, Jamie likely could have bested the Blackfish in combat. 

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3 hours ago, LadyAlisande said:

I don't think they will do LSH. But if they wanted to do it, they would go back to the Red Wedding and show the body being found right after the event. There's no reason they couldn't tell the story through flashbacks...and say she has been around all this time but laying low, hiding in that cave where Dondarrion fought the Hound. All this time she has been planning, gathering information and biding her time for the right opportunity. When she hears what happened to Blackfish and Riverrun, she springs into action.

I don't think they'll do it, but if they wanted to, that is one way they could tell the story. Having Thoros find and resurrect her at this point doesn't make sense. We'd have to go back in time through a flashback, Bran's vision, or just a caption letting us know that what we're seeing happened in the past.

You're forgetting the sacrifice that needs to be made a la Beric Undarrion to create Lady Stoneheart as he gives the kiss of life to Catelyn Starks corpse.  Ergo, Beric and LSH cannot both be around (according to book canon).  

But the show could just say "fuck it" and go ahead and have her resurrected anyway without Beric's sacrifice.  I mean, it's not like they're keeping to the integrity of the books so your theory is definitely plausible.  

Edited by TheKingInTheNorth3

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I was a big Stoneheart truther until Beric showed up in this episode and Lem Lemoncloak was revealed to simply be going out on his own and extorting and massacring villagers (I guess?  No explanation was offered at what his motives were that I remember nor am I convinced we will ever get an explanation based on the show's history with this type of thing)...but now I think it's pretty safe to declare the Stoneheart character dead, both for Catelyn and for Blackfish.

I don't really see the purpose for this character and arc on the show anymore.  It seems as if Beric/Thoros are turning Northwards towards the White Walkers, and Brienne is probably returning North too.  Jaime will be returning to King's Landing.

All that being said, the Freys are still sort of prominently featured and need somebody to deal them their comeuppance.  I guess it's possible the show simply reintroduced them so they could better set up the Riverrun situation with Blackfish/Edmure/Freys...but it does seem as if another shoe is still waiting to drop.  And I will say the show continues to mention Catelyn A LOT this season, and this episode in particular pretty much had Jaime, Brienne, and the Blackfish all repeat Catelyn's name on a loop.

But no, I do not see Blackfish becoming Stoneheart...the show made him a badass but he wasn't given enough screentime or development to justify that twist I think.

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I guess I'm still just holding out hope that we get some version of either LSH or Blackheart to deal with the Frey's and their cuntiness and start hanging them left and right.  The epilogue of ASoS was just so gratifying and satisfying that I want so badly for the BwB and BH or LSH to exact revenge on the Frey's and deliver them to the seven hells where they belong.  

Edited by TheKingInTheNorth3

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1 hour ago, Saiyan said:

I don't want to see Beric giving the kiss of light to Blackfish.

Why not?

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4 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Why is Beric here? That's the critical question. Nothing else matters.

Could be no reason.  Why did they bring Osha back?  Why did they bring the Blackfish back? Why did they bring Edmure back?

 

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To all those that think the Blackfish is alive. No. It's apparent at this point in the season what you see is what it is.

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15 minutes ago, Narvi said:

To all those that think the Blackfish is alive. No. It's apparent at this point in the season what you see is what it is.

After what we saw in Bravos with A+W and the FM, I'm perfectly willing to agree with you that BF sleeps with the fishes. But I just can't see BF taking on the LCS role even with BD there because BF is not an L and has no connection to AS or SS that routes through LBT.  Plus LBT is going back north with PP, so I don't see her catching up with JL again, let alone getting caught by BF-qua-LCS. How could LCS ever catch LBT now? That ship has sailed.  

 

Edited by CrypticWeirwood

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No Stoneheart. In any form.

If they didn't bother with Cat, they will surely not bother with Blackfish. I mean, they flushed him down the toilet similarly to Stannis, it's clear they didn't want to do anything with his character.

RIP my wish to see LF reunited with his Only (Un)Cat.

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1 hour ago, Tianzi said:

No Stoneheart. In any form.

If they didn't bother with Cat, they will surely not bother with Blackfish. I mean, they flushed him down the toilet similarly to Stannis, it's clear they didn't want to do anything with his character.

RIP my wish to see LF reunited with his Only (Un)Cat.

I just cannot figure out what they're doing with TOM and BD at this point of the game, even reminding everyone of the latter's sequential resurrections. The only reason has to be for BD to transfer his "life force" to someone, but who?  I say "the only reason" because that's the whole point of BD's existence: to be able to do that.  Otherwise they (meaning DND not TOM) would not have brought BD back.  Of course it can't be LCS now but the argument that it will be either BF or SC doesn't seem sensible either.  It's true that JL is in the area, but that makes no sense, unless he really is AA in the WFTD.

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