So After That I Episode I Don't Think the Book is Getting Spoiled Very Much (Book Spoilers)

[Maxxine]

I was on a topic last week and the discussion was how much the shows are actually spoiling the books. Different opinions and I was of the opinion that the shows weren't spoiling too much and after this week I'm even more sure of that. Yes I know that the show has showed Jon's resurrection and Dany taking the Dothraki (big storylines), but to me those were more confirmations more than spoilers. I know, I know that just a matter of semantics but that's just how I feel about it. I really don't think these were spoilers because I believe the "how" will be completely different anyway especially in Jon's case. No way it's that easy in the book. I predict he won't be back in his body until at least half way through the book. Plus I expect there to be a lot of immediate repercussions to his death considering the wildlings are already there. The only thing I feel truly "spoiled" about at this point is Bran's storyline because of the "hold the door" thing and how the Others may be crossing the Wall. 

After watching this episode, I really feel the show is going a different direction. Do I really think there is going to not be a Cersei trial by combat in the book? Nope. 1) That just seems such a deeply embedded thing for the 7 no way there's doing away with it that randomly. Of course it's possible and it's obvious why that would be a good thing for the Faith if they really want Cersei dead especially since they have tons of evidence, I just don't see it. 2) I would be shocked if Tommen grows that much of backbone in the book to actually betray his mother. He's just too young and doesn't seem to have the disposition for it even if he was older. 3) Gregor goes through this whole frakenstein thing for nothing. Cersei may still find a way around this in the show. We'll have to wait and see, but I'd be surprised if we got this proclamation in the book regardless.

The Arya storyline is another "confirmation" for me. Figured she would leave the FM at some point, but not like that.  The waif doesn't have the weird unexplained vendetta against Arya and even if she did wouldn't she use poison instead of chasing her around Bravvos? 

In the Riverlands, it doesn't seem like Lady Stoneheart is going to be a thing so that already takes out a big part of the book plot. Maybe the Blackfish still dies but I feel like he would still do something significant first not just dying stupidly because of his pride.

Like I said before the Dany thing is not really what I consider a spoiler. The "how" is going to happen a lot differently imo. First she has Drogon with her when the Dothraki find her so that has to have some impact. Second, neither Daario or Jorah are in a position to help save her. The Meereen storyline is pretty much where it is in the books except Dany isn't there and I don't think she's actually going to get there  in time for the Battle of Meereen in the  books anyway. It seems like Tyrion has just taken her place in the books and we're definitely not being spoiled to his storyline. I do think he will ultimately end up running Meereen until Dany comes back, but at the end of the books he's still outside of the Walls and doesn't seem to be close to getting in.

In addition to the stuff they've changed they've left a lot of stuff out that going to significantly impact the books. Aegon, LSH, Golden Company, Citadel (though they may get to that with Sam), Arianne, Quentyn, Damphair, Victarion (though I assume Asha and Theon are taking that storyline), Robb's will, the Manderlys, etc.

So with all this stuff and only 2 episodes left I just think there's not going too much spoiled this season especially to the "how" and "why" to the big events, which to me is just as important. Next is the Battle of WF, which is going to be a Stannis storyline in the books so that fact alone immediately makes it different because of the different context and different implications.Don't know about episode 10.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

The Blackfish likely does stuff with LS and since LS isn't in the show, they decided to just kill him off.

 

I agree with what you said. I think you can tell that all the plotlines they cut has lead them to spin  their wheels on the plot completely.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

Hmmm, perhaps

 

The show, on the other hand, is definitely getting spoiled

This shit is almost as bad as Sons of Anarchy got

[Gertrude]

I didn't really expect this season to spoil much given that they dipped back into book storylines and, as you said, some big moments were more confirmations than truly shocking spoilers. Only Bran and Cersei seem to be significantly ahead of their book counterparts right now. I fear more for the next season for the truly big spoilers. But, as you said, it's hard to know what is actually a spoiler and knowing what happens is very different than knowing how it happens.

Sadly, the situation we are in right now is kind of leeching all the joy out of the show for me. The show is jumping from moment to moment and the journey is not earned. I wanted to cheer when Arya takes back her name but that whole story was so bleah. I'm positive the Martin will make me feel it, I don't have any trust in the show to do so.

[Johnimus]

I agree with this.

However, let's face it, season 7 will have to spoil the book.

(I know, I know, he says he'll have it out in time. Consider me sceptical).

[Im With Stannis]

Apparently, Jaime being in the Riverlands is somehow significant, according to GRRM. Something is going to happen there.

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

21 minutes ago, Johnimus said:

I agree with this.

However, let's face it, season 7 will have to spoil the book.

(I know, I know, he says he'll have it out in time. Consider me sceptical).

And even if he does, season 8 will certainly be spoiling book 7. Christ, that's a long wait I'm not looking forward to. I can't imagine how hard it must be for the poor cunts who've been with this thing since the very beginning. Twenty fuckin' years!

[MountainThatSkates]

I had the same exact thoughts after this episode specifically.  Hold the Door and the Bran stuff are probably the only significant spoilers from this season.  Every other major steps forward were stuff that could have been guessed following Dance with Dragons.  

The show writers have proven their weaknesses.  I'm typically a defender of the show but I thought last night's episode was just weak.  The Tyrion scene with Grey Worm and Missandei was again just kind of a waste of time and good characters.  They could have had a light scene that shorter and then more about the preparations for this defense.  Tyrion wasn't able to find any way to have advanced scouts to know if a massive fleet is approaching the harbor?  Nothing?  

And Arya's storyline this season is worse off than anything from Dorne, people are just more forgiving because its Arya.  She's wandering around the city without a care in the world when she knew she just abandoned a super assassin guild that she knows the secrets of.  She gets repeatedly shanked in the gut and then the next day she's running through the city being chased by another assassin who shows absolutely no signs of being a capable assassin.  

[Mehmet Eren]

I agree on this topic: Bran, we get spolied but no harm I love spoils and in detail I expect things to be happen differently. On large scale; We get spoils about: The others their origion some children of the forest history hold the door case some of the Bran power? Rest I expect things will be very different in the book. In Arya case conslusion will same Arya will left Bravos but rst of the story will occur differently and For Bran I am confused about Bloodraven. Is book bloodracen and tv bloodraven same person ? We got lady Stonehearth and Jamie is very different in the book so Riverrun will be very different. Hole Ironborn plot will be different they merge and divided Pov story for tv show. Jon will follow similar plotline but we already know that he meant to be fight against Ramsay. I am not sure about Hardbone maybe we will that place in the book but I cant predict it. 

[Good Guy Garlan]

A relatively small spoiler we did get: Edmure's child is a boy. That's good news for Edmure because Genna can't marry Tywin to him to have a stronger claim of Riverrun, but bad news because GRRM can now kill Edmure and still have the Tully name/line survive. 

[Maxxine]

3 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

And even if he does, season 8 will certainly be spoiling book 7. Christ, that's a long wait I'm not looking forward to. I can't imagine how hard it must be for the poor cunts who've been with this thing since the very beginning. Twenty fuckin' years!

Yeah, there's no way he finishes book 7 before the series ends. I'm just hoping he can at least get out Winds before next year. And I agree we're probably going to get spoiled about the end of the series, at least in regard to the really big storylines like the Iron Throne, Others, dragonriders. But I still think the how and why will still be so significantly different that it won't be terrible since so many storylines have been left out or drastically changed.

3 hours ago, MountainThatSkates said:

 

And Arya's storyline this season is worse off than anything from Dorne, people are just more forgiving because its Arya.  She's wandering around the city without a care in the world when she knew she just abandoned a super assassin guild that she knows the secrets of.  She gets repeatedly shanked in the gut and then the next day she's running through the city being chased by another assassin who shows absolutely no signs of being a capable assassin.  

I can't say it's worse than Dorne but I didn't enjoy it. Arya is my favorite so I was very disappointed in what they did with her. I feel like they were trying to get across that she planned the whole thing but they didn't do a great job of explaining it (except for her purposely leaving the blood trail). And they butchered the Waif. The personal vendetta is a direct contradiction to being a FM and FM don't chase people through the streets. Arya ultimately did what I want her to do, but I think she leaves with a lot more assassin skills in the book. She can warg cats and still has the wolf dreams, which I think will be very significant in prompting her to leave.

[Olorin81]

How do we know the whole "Hold the door" thing will play out the same way in the books? Seems to me that whole scene with Bran greenseeing into the past and controlling Hodor in the present was something more tailored for a tv show than a book. Not sure it would really translate that well in the book. So I'm betting things happen a bit differently in that aspect. Perhaps Bran doesn't leave those caves at all and eventually just takes over for the 3ER becoming intertwined with roots and what not. I don't really see where they are going with Bran in the tv show. What can he do in the physical world crippled as he is. Unless Martin doesn't kill off Hodor at all and Bran rides him around piggyback using his awesome greenseer powers he learns from the 3ER.

 

[SevasTra82]

23 minutes ago, Olorin81 said:

How do we know the whole "Hold the door" thing will play out the same way in the books? Seems to me that whole scene with Bran greenseeing into the past and controlling Hodor in the present was something more tailored for a tv show than a book. Not sure it would really translate that well in the book. So I'm betting things happen a bit differently in that aspect. Perhaps Bran doesn't leave those caves at all and eventually just takes over for the 3ER becoming intertwined with roots and what not. I don't really see where they are going with Bran in the tv show. What can he do in the physical world crippled as he is. Unless Martin doesn't kill off Hodor at all and Bran rides him around piggyback using his awesome greenseer powers he learns from the 3ER.

 

GRRM himself has already said that the outcome to Hodor is the same, but the story and context behind how he got the name "Hodor" will be different.

[Lady Lyanna Mormont]

Yeah, I agree. I think some points will be the same such as Arya going back to Westeros, Dany getting the Khalasar to follow her, Hodor's name origin, who's gonna sit on the Iron Throne, Jon's parentage, etc. But how we get there, I believe it will be different.
And I try to not criticize the show since I see it as different entity from the books, but boy, Arya's story was bad. Yes, they messed up with Dorne and with a bunch of other stuff, but I thought that at least with the main characters they would be somewhat faithful. I know they weren't going to have her warg Nymeria and the cat but make her get her ass kicked through the training, walking on the streets without a care, even though she's been chased by assassins, the Waif's personal vendetta, her stabbing... Yes, we don't have the books to know what really happens but I sincerely doubt GRRM will present her story like that.

[Olorin81]

1 hour ago, SevasTra82 said:

GRRM himself has already said that the outcome to Hodor is the same, but the story and context behind how he got the name "Hodor" will be different.

Ok so Hodor dies protecting Bran, but you just said yourself Martin says the context of how he got the name Hodor is different. So that whole scene with Bran controlling him from the past can be completely different.

[SevasTra82]

26 minutes ago, Olorin81 said:

Ok so Hodor dies protecting Bran, but you just said yourself Martin says the context of how he got the name Hodor is different. So that whole scene with Bran controlling him from the past can be completely different.

Yup, that's how I understood GRRM's comment.  That whole "time travel/Bran controlling him in the past" bit IMO is made up solely for the show.

I think Bloodraven probably showed Hodor is future and *that* is what corrupted him.  Since BloodRaven technically does not exist in the show (just an old man in a tree), the obvious work-around to this was to have Bran be the one to screw Hodor up through some sort of time-warping.

[Maxxine]

26 minutes ago, SevasTra82 said:

Yup, that's how I understood GRRM's comment.  That whole "time travel/Bran controlling him in the past" bit IMO is made up solely for the show.

I think Bloodraven probably showed Hodor is future and *that* is what corrupted him.  Since BloodRaven technically does not exist in the show (just an old man in a tree), the obvious work-around to this was to have Bran be the one to screw Hodor up through some sort of time-warping.

I hope you're right. I'm pretty sure the "hold the door" thing is happening, but I hope GRRM doesn't do the time loop thing. This book is complicated enough without adding that element. I'm hoping it has something to with Crypts at WF. I liked the theory that he saw the Great Other and Hodor is the Great Other's name. Seem like that's not it, but it could still have something to do with the Crypts. Maybe a Stark child inadvertently caused the issue somehow.

 

[Masha]

At this point, its obvious that GOT is cutting thru all intrigue and conspiracy theories and just going straightforwardly on.

Theories about Lady Stoneheart - as promised by all involvied including GRRM, she doesn't make her appearance and Beric still breathing

Theories about Arya - Fight Club, blood bag, Jaquen as Arya 

Theories about Blackfish 

Theories about anyone other than Bran warging.

All those intricate conspiracy theories picking up on smallest details all turned out to be just that. D&D are pretty much following straightforward storylines telegraphing their intentions.

So, pretty much convinced on following remaining theories not going to happen:

This season - no Red Wedding 2

LF doesn't know that R+L=J

 

[Lady Lark of the NorthWood]

7 hours ago, Im With Stannis said:

Apparently, Jaime being in the Riverlands is somehow significant, according to GRRM. Something is going to happen there.

I'm still reading ADWD, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Sansa still wanted, along with Tyrion, for Joffrey's murder? Maybe Jaime is planning on hunting her down, since Brienne practically dumped her in his lap.

[Maxxine]

3 hours ago, Lady Lark of the NorthWood said:

I'm still reading ADWD, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Sansa still wanted, along with Tyrion, for Joffrey's murder? Maybe Jaime is planning on hunting her down, since Brienne practically dumped her in his lap.

If you're referring  to him hunting down Sansa then no. I don't how much you want to be spoiled so I'll use the spoiler tag to explain.

Spoiler

Yes. Sansa is still wanted, but Jaime is on a completely different path from the show. He's trying his best to let go of Cersei & keep his promise to Cat about finding her daughters by sending Brienne to find both of them. She's nowhere near either one so she hasn't dumped her in his lap. His RL significance has to be tied to lady stone heart.