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How would you use Wun Wun in battle?


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On 16 juni 2016 at 9:39 PM, Mista C said:

The sad part about this great thread and great ideas is that we've put more thought into this than D&D have.  Wun Wun will not have any giant-sized cool weapons, he won't throw massive boulders or rocks, and he probably won't even swing a giant tree trunk around taking out dozens of men with each swipe.  No, they will not even show him that much, and when they do he'll definitely do some damage, but ultimately die in the most ridiculous way possible, un-used potential and all.

Yes i think you're right.... Lot of ways to use a giant in a fight, sadly we will just see him storming the gates and die by some arrows in his head or something

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19 hours ago, Trillmendous said:

Canon Balls being used in open field combat is illogical and the Battle of the bastard despite being next to the castle of winterfell is an open field battle and not an assault on the castle(at least not until they beat that massive army outside of the castle). Having him as infantry is a much better use for him.  

 

More on canon balls... they were not used in open battle until the renaissance period because by that time the technology for canons was much more improved then it was during the feudal period in europe. In fact when canon's were first being used widespread many Islamic nations tried to use them against the mongols in open battle and it did absolutely jack squat. They were mostly used in castle assaults because they could damage the integrity of a stone castle but in battle they were really ineffective. 

 

Open field but with an army packed on a falanx formation, perfect for a cannon ball or a massive rock.

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8 hours ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

Open field but with an army packed on a falanx formation, perfect for a cannon ball or a massive rock.

 

true.  but ... who makes the cannonball?   you need a certain level of manufacturing technology to create these metal spheres.  Such tech nobody seems to have, leas of all the Wildlings. One would also need to be making cannons....otherwise...why would cannonballs be made?  Such things ( both the cannons and the balls) are quite expensive.  Extremely expensive.  Only the Lannisters and maybe the Tyrells (outside the Targs) could afford such things.  And dont forget logistics ... they have to be transported to the battlefield, and, once there, make it to wun-wun (their Delivery System) with regularity.

So ....in short ...  no cannonballs.  ;-)

 

Boulders ... wouldnt be nearly as effective.  probably not roll.  they have to be found and then transported to the army and then wun-wun.

edit:  also , Wun-wun would have to stop sending projectiles once the lines closed with each other.

         otherwise there would be Friendly Fire incidents.  which is a good way to shatter the morale of your own troops

 

Certainly does sound cool yes .... but ... 

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3 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

The sheer fact that the Boltons are going to leave WF and fight Jon is just ridiculous.  They should just stay in the fort like some French knights and yell insults at them

true.   Roose would probably stay inside the castle.  but ramsay ... seems a bit more rash.

 

this reminds me of things said in S1 (book 1?) where Robert may have attempted to meet Drogo's Dothraki forces in the field.

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8 hours ago, plectrum said:

I'm not exactly a medieval general, but I think he'd be great for breaking their lines.  Just send him through the middle to shatter their formation, then pour men into the gap and cut their army in half. 

bingo.

put him at the front of a 'Boars Snout'  (a wedge filled with picked  'assault troops') and send him and them in at the decisive moment to shatter the Bolton Shield Wall.  With the rest of the Stark forces on hand to take full advantage.

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On 6/16/2016 at 3:39 PM, Mista C said:

The sad part about this great thread and great ideas is that we've put more thought into this than D&D have.  Wun Wun will not have any giant-sized cool weapons, he won't throw massive boulders or rocks, and he probably won't even swing a giant tree trunk around taking out dozens of men with each swipe.  No, they will not even show him that much, and when they do he'll definitely do some damage, but ultimately die in the most ridiculous way possible, un-used potential and all.

Sorry, but the the big boulders and swinging a tree really doesn't make sense to me.  using a tree as a lance/pike when leading a wedge into the Bolton Shield Wall?  That does.  ;-)

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On 6/17/2016 at 8:11 PM, Trillmendous said:

Canon Balls being used in open field combat is illogical and the Battle of the bastard despite being next to the castle of winterfell is an open field battle and not an assault on the castle(at least not until they beat that massive army outside of the castle). Having him as infantry is a much better use for him.  

 

More on canon balls... they were not used in open battle until the renaissance period because by that time the technology for canons was much more improved then it was during the feudal period in europe. In fact when canon's were first being used widespread many Islamic nations tried to use them against the mongols in open battle and it did absolutely jack squat. They were mostly used in castle assaults because they could damage the integrity of a stone castle but in battle they were really ineffective. 

 

yup.

field artillery only became effective when?  was it the 1630s with the Swedes and their light and mobile horse artillery?

even though infantry (pike blocks) were slow, they moved enough to force the artillery to move and/or change aim, which for some time artillery could not do effectively nor accurately.

heh .. for cannons ... have we even mentioned the ability to manufacture reliable gunpowder (black powder) and ignition (fuses, match-cord, etc)

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24 minutes ago, Thror Baratheon said:

Sorry, but the the big boulders and swinging a tree really doesn't make sense to me.  using a tree as a lance/pike when leading a wedge into the Bolton Shield Wall?  That does.  ;-)

I think overall that Hardholme was by far the best action sequence of the entire series, it will be hard to top that. When Jon killed that WW with Longclaw was a pleasant surprise and had me shouting at the edge of my seat. No one expected that coming because it was never in the books and it was a great feeling to witness that reveal. 

The way they used Wun Wun in those scenes were very practical and gives me hope in this next episode. But to see him battle actual living men in an organized army, it would be foolish to not give him that same tree trunk to use as a shield and weapon against the Boltons. He is a walking target if left unguarded. Wun wun is too much of an asset, he is like worth 100 men or more.

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On 6/15/2016 at 2:27 PM, Xarkar said:

Yes, a Trebuchet is going to be mroe effective than an arrow, but WunWun is not a Trebuchet.  What would be more effective in the hands of a human.  A stone, (the largest he can throw) or a bow& Arrow.   The arrow is going to have much greater range, velocity and power behind it, because it is using the bow to increase the users power.


Think of this, if you have a human, and he throws a stone as far as he possibly can, he might get what, 100-150 feet with very little accuracy, and also very ltitle force (the stone would need to be relativly small in order to go that distance).

Now give the same person a bow and arrow, and they can easily shoot 300-500 feet (or more) with the same accuracy.  At 100 feet, the bow is going to be VERY accurate, with far more force than the stone.  However it wont penetrate a sheild.

 

Wun Wun could very easily fire some arrows into the enemy ranks that have some kind of oil on them to wreak havok on the lines.  If he was going for a direct horizontal shot he would take out multiple people per shot.  He could then stop shooting his arrow and go to somethign else (large boulder) when the charge starts.\

 

 

BTW Wiki says Trebuchet range is about 300 meters, ballista max range was 460m...   Longbow seems to be about 328m range.  So a giant, with a giant longbow is likely going to have much greater range than 328m

 

Arrows....require training.  Lots and lots of training.  (English longbowmen trained quite a lot once a week or a month (not really sure of the period) pretty much all of their lives)  Does wun-wun have this?  in battle conditions?   ;-)

 

Once a charge starts, wun wun would actually have to stop sending any projectiles.   at least at that part of the battlefield

 

 

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15 hours ago, Thror Baratheon said:

 

true.  but ... who makes the cannonball?   you need a certain level of manufacturing technology to create these metal spheres.  Such tech nobody seems to have, leas of all the Wildlings. One would also need to be making cannons....otherwise...why would cannonballs be made?  Such things ( both the cannons and the balls) are quite expensive.  Extremely expensive.  Only the Lannisters and maybe the Tyrells (outside the Targs) could afford such things.  And dont forget logistics ... they have to be transported to the battlefield, and, once there, make it to wun-wun (their Delivery System) with regularity.

So ....in short ...  no cannonballs.  ;-)

 

Boulders ... wouldnt be nearly as effective.  probably not roll.  they have to be found and then transported to the army and then wun-wun.

edit:  also , Wun-wun would have to stop sending projectiles once the lines closed with each other.

         otherwise there would be Friendly Fire incidents.  which is a good way to shatter the morale of your own troops

 

Certainly does sound cool yes .... but ... 

I did not say in any way that they should make a cannon. I said that Wun Wun would be a good MOBILE artillery. This would not exempt him of attacking in other forms. Even archers can become infantery men when arrows are gome. Same as javelin throwers.  And as the same way you could pick 30 rocks of the size of your hand and use them without much effort, Wun Wun could do the same. After that, yes them he could do another type of damage. I guess we have to agree in disagreeing.. :)

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20 hours ago, SerMixalot said:

The sheer fact that the Boltons are going to leave WF and fight Jon is just ridiculous.  They should just stay in the fort like some French knights and yell insults at them

I fart in your general direction!

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On 16.06.2016 at 5:12 PM, Conchobar said:

Hide him in the surrounding woods and use him to flank the fuck out of the enemy later. Simple.

+1

By doing so, you can break through and kill Ramsey Bolton (or force him to flee). Once that happens, the battle is over.

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On 6/17/2016 at 9:58 AM, YoungGriff89 said:

I would definitely have him (Wun Wun) armored and carrying a large blunt object like a tree trunk, but against the Boltons I don't know how well he would do.  Grenn and four other guys took out Mag the Mighty, how well could Wun Wun possibly last against Ramsey's twenty good men?

Poor comparison. Mag the Mighty was in a tunnel. Wun Wun is in an open field with plenty of space for his size. 

Wun Wun was just poorly used in this battle for no reason other than because the writers wanted it that way. Just like how every character on the show, and in the books Tywin states that Stannis is the most dangerous opponent during the War of Five Kings, spoke of Stannis' battlefield command prowess and he was utterly destroyed because he did not use simple tactics that could of saved his army, like employ scouts. I suppose when preparing for a siege it is common practice to place your siege weapons where 20 men can destroy them and escape with relative ease.

So it is with Jon Snow, a capable commander and strategist, who knows the castle better than the occupants and their allies, to not use this to his advantage. Apparently Jon forgot just what a giant is capable of on the battlefield after Hardhome. I suppose giving Wun Wun a club was not in their budget. It does not matter though, Sansa got her moment of being a Hero and Jon got to look like an incompetent tool.

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